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Thread: Dont allow democracy die ??

  1. #26

    Re: Dont allow democracy die ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Wales-Bales View Post
    Fascist out.
    Federalist in .
    Oohh hang on we hate both .
    Peppa Pigg in they shout .


    Where do they keep all their other, rent a mob banners, like save the planet , hug a tree ,down with Trump, boo too Royalist .

    Must have a big garage

  2. #27

    Re: Dont allow democracy die ??

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    Yes and how sad that is , shame on all you MP'S for your lack of loyalty to its people .
    So, besides a majority of those who bothered to vote saying they wanted to Leave, what was the "will of the people"? No deal? A Norway type deal? A Canada type deal? Leave, but stay in the single market?

    I wouldn't expect any one to read all of this now;-

    https://assets.publishing.service.go...ide_the_EU.pdf

    but it is a Government document produced in 2016 that outlines the alternative approaches open to the UK in the event of a Leave vote in the forthcoming referendum. It runs to forty seven pages and just a quick glance through it shows the size of the task facing those who had to bring about the departure.

    It's simple to deduce what those voting remain wanted because it was, essentially, a vote for the status quo, but how on earth people can claim that all those voting Leave were happy for us to do so with no deal is beyond me. There is a poll taken just before the vote appearing in another thread which, very surprisingly, you and one or two others show no interest in, proving that, clearly, most people intending to vote Leave were not expecting us to do so without a deal - presumably, they were of the opinion that we would go having signed up for one of the alternatives outlined in the document I've put a link to.

    What has happened is that, although the majority of MPs are remainers, there is nothing to indicate that there is a majority who want to remain at all costs - my guess is that the majority believe the result of the Referendum is should be honoured. The problem arises though that the number of alternative options available to them makes it hard for agreement to be reached on the best way to do so and, in that respect, they are surely only mirroring the thoughts of millions of leave voters who would have made their decision with a a preferred method of leaving in mind.

    Unless my memory is playing tricks on me, leaving with no deal was always painted as a worst case scenario in the event of leave winning, but now we appear to be heading towards a solution which three years ago only the zealots were advocating - it's clear that the the large majority of MPs don't want this to happen and so why shouldn't they do all that they can to prevent it from doing so?

  3. #28

    Re: Dont allow democracy die ??

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    Fascist out.
    Federalist in .
    Oohh hang on we hate both .
    Peppa Pigg in they shout .


    Where do they keep all their other, rent a mob banners, like save the planet , hug a tree ,down with Trump, boo too Royalist .

    Must have a big garage
    Wrote your criticism of Boris like you say you were going to? Or is it another day of Daily Express readers comment type outrage?

  4. #29

    Re: Dont allow democracy die ??

    Quote Originally Posted by CardiffIrish2 View Post
    Wrote your criticism of Boris like you say you were going to? Or is it another day of Daily Express readers comment type outrage?
    Fascist outrage report

  5. #30

    Re: Dont allow democracy die ??

    I wouldn't let the average person questioned about Brexit in TV voxpop interviews on the street run my household budget, never mind the fate of the country at large.

  6. #31

    Re: Dont allow democracy die ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie View Post
    I wouldn't let the average person questioned about Brexit in TV voxpop interviews on the street run my household budget, never mind the fate of the country at large.

    So you reject democracy. At least you're honest about it.
    Who's going to decide which people are clever enough to have a say ? Um ... It's you isn't it ?

  7. #32

    Re: Dont allow democracy die ??

    Quote Originally Posted by RonnieBird View Post
    So you reject democracy. At least you're honest about it.
    Who's going to decide which people are clever enough to have a say ? Um ... It's you isn't it ?
    Wild idea but maybe we could have a big vote where each area picks somebody, maybe call it a general election.

  8. #33

    Re: Dont allow democracy die ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    Wild idea but maybe we could have a big vote where each area picks somebody, maybe call it a general election.
    An electoral college then ?

  9. #34

    Re: Dont allow democracy die ??

    The referendum was a straight question though, Eric, not an election

  10. #35

    Re: Dont allow democracy die ??

    Quote Originally Posted by RonnieBird View Post
    The referendum was a straight question though, Eric, not an election
    It was a glorified opinion poll and tantamount to subverting the sovereignty of Parliament via an attempt to short circuit it. That quivering fool Cameron has a lot to answer for.

  11. #36

    Re: Dont allow democracy die ??

    Quote Originally Posted by RonnieBird View Post
    So you reject democracy. At least you're honest about it.
    Who's going to decide which people are clever enough to have a say ? Um ... It's you isn't it ?
    If you weren't so bloated with egotism and self-importance you may have noted other messages I have posted hitherto stating that very few people, me included, knew enough of the ramifications of Brexit to vote on the matter with any authority - and many of the people interviewed on the street by the media seem to back up their views on either side of the debate with nothing more than vacuous slogans.

    Best not misrepresent my views RB (/WB?) and accuse me of a superiority complex that you undoubtably have yourself. In spades.

  12. #37

    Re: Dont allow democracy die ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Dorcus View Post
    It was a glorified opinion poll and tantamount to subverting the sovereignty of Parliament via an attempt to short circuit it. That quivering fool Cameron has a lot to answer for.
    Yet, they had a debate and a vote on whether to " seek directions" from the electorate and did so.
    It wasn't an opinion poll, it was a properly convened electoral process in which only registered electors could take part.
    Parliament had every opportunity to prevent the referrendum when they debated it, but when they passed it, they passed the decision to the people.

    You might not like the outcome , but it is a fact, and the sovereignty of parliament certainly does not extend to changing its mind after it has " called an election" because it dislikes the outcome.

  13. #38

    Re: Dont allow democracy die ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie View Post
    If you weren't so bloated with egotism and self-importance you may have noted other messages I have posted hitherto stating that very few people, me included, knew enough of the ramifications of Brexit to vote on the matter with any authority - and many of the people interviewed on the street by the media seem to back up their views on either side of the debate with nothing more than vacuous slogans.

    Best not misrepresent my views RB (/WB?) and accuse me of a superiority complex that you undoubtably have yourself. In spades.


    Again with the WB crap !
    Whatever I think of my own abilities as compared to some , which is irrelevant anyway so I'm not going to debate it, I'm not suggesting that I should have any more than one vote, or that my opinions - no matter how correct I hold them to be - should outweigh the majority opinion.
    I was horrified when Blair was elected in 1997 and correctly predicted many of the disasters this would lead to, but it never occurred to me that anyone should try to block or reverse it.

    The truth is that very few people understand much about the issues they vote for on this issue or a general election either, but that's no reason to doubt the democratic process . The only alternative is war when you really come down to reality, and this is why intelligent men understand the importance of respecting and abiding by it.

    Incidentally, this ego battle you seem to be waging is stupid and pointless. No one here knows enough about anyone else to judge them and the conclusions would be meaningless anyway. That all adds up to a total of nothing, so it's not worth consideration in what is actually a very important issue in real terms.

  14. #39

    Re: Dont allow democracy die ??

    Quote Originally Posted by RonnieBird View Post
    Again with the WB crap !
    Whatever I think of my own abilities as compared to some , which is irrelevant anyway so I'm not going to debate it, I'm not suggesting that I should have any more than one vote, or that my opinions - no matter how correct I hold them to be - should outweigh the majority opinion.
    I was horrified when Blair was elected in 1997 and correctly predicted many of the disasters this would lead to, but it never occurred to me that anyone should try to block or reverse it.

    The truth is that very few people understand much about the issues they vote for on this issue or a general election either, but that's no reason to doubt the democratic process . The only alternative is war when you really come down to reality, and this is why intelligent men understand the importance of respecting and abiding by it.

    Incidentally, this ego battle you seem to be waging is stupid and pointless. No one here knows enough about anyone else to judge them and the conclusions would be meaningless anyway. That all adds up to a total of nothing, so it's not worth consideration in what is actually a very important issue in real terms.
    Ego battle that I am waging? What ego battle is that? I think you have me confused with someone else as I don't engage with your posts and only responded to your stupid reply to mine. And your posts ooze ego, that's for sure. Superior education, superior judgement, independent thinker blah, blah, blah...
    I have managed to have sensible conversations over the years with everyone except WB/you. Pity you can't say the same aboput your interactions with other posters in the weeks/years you have been on here.

  15. #40

    Re: Dont allow democracy die ??

    Quote Originally Posted by RonnieBird View Post
    Yet, they had a debate and a vote on whether to " seek directions" from the electorate and did so.
    It wasn't an opinion poll, it was a properly convened electoral process in which only registered electors could take part.
    Parliament had every opportunity to prevent the referrendum when they debated it, but when they passed it, they passed the decision to the people.

    You might not like the outcome , but it is a fact, and the sovereignty of parliament certainly does not extend to changing its mind after it has " called an election" because it dislikes the outcome.
    A properly convened official electoral process which resulted in one side fined for illegality.

    Hmmmmm

  16. #41

    Re: Dont allow democracy die ??

    I can' t wait for the next industrial action vote , perhaps we may see a very low percentage of votes for a strike, effecting the higher percentage of workers .

    Can we (delay or stop ) that strike being implement , for those voting , yes to strike , they may not w
    bevfully aware of its impacts and consequences.

    Should we not now effect that democratic process??

    Is it simply an inflated opinion poll ?? as some suggested the Brexit vote was ?

    Oh , help me , when is a vote, an actual democratic process ??

  17. #42

    Re: Dont allow democracy die ??

    Quote Originally Posted by CardiffIrish2 View Post
    A properly convened official electoral process which resulted in one side fined for illegality.

    Hmmmmm
    Dreadful stuff I agree its everywhere

    Wasn't Emma's Diary fined heavily for selling personal data to a certain political party in the last election ??

    And Cambridge Analytica incident


    Bet there ate hundreds of examples of this over the years .

  18. #43

    Re: Dont allow democracy die ??

    Yeah there are. Breaches of rules are commonplace in any election, so Irish's point is ..... Well, let's say not a convincing one. I don't want to sound rude and use a stronger word .

  19. #44

    Re: Dont allow democracy die ??

    Quote Originally Posted by RonnieBird View Post
    Yeah there are. Breaches of rules are commonplace in any election, so Irish's point is ..... Well, let's say not a convincing one. I don't want to sound rude and use a stronger word .
    Well you can be rude all you like dear.
    Doesn’t change the fact.

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.b...itics-47087440

    Love one of the Fluoride generation 😘

  20. #45

    Re: Dont allow democracy die ??

    Quote Originally Posted by RonnieBird View Post
    The referendum was a straight question though, Eric, not an election
    It's how we decide who we want to represent us, this is what you described.

  21. #46

    Re: Dont allow democracy die ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Dorcus View Post
    It was a glorified opinion poll and tantamount to subverting the sovereignty of Parliament via an attempt to short circuit it. That quivering fool Cameron has a lot to answer for.

  22. #47

    Re: Dont allow democracy die ??

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    Fascist out.
    Federalist in .
    Oohh hang on we hate both .
    Peppa Pigg in they shout .


    Where do they keep all their other, rent a mob banners, like save the planet , hug a tree ,down with Trump, boo too Royalist .

    Must have a big garage
    Serious question, do you ever take a moment to thing that if you're against people who have a banner saying this that maybe, just maybe you're on the wrong side? Reminds me of that Mitchell and Webb Nazi sketch


  23. #48

    Re: Dont allow democracy die ??

    Quote Originally Posted by delmbox View Post
    Serious question, do you ever take a moment to thing that if you're against people who have a banner saying this that maybe, just maybe you're on the wrong side? Reminds me of that Mitchell and Webb Nazi sketch

    I think he's a just a crazy mixed up kid, the poor dear.

  24. #49

    Re: Dont allow democracy die ??

    Lets have an election ??????????????

  25. #50

    Re: Dont allow democracy die ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Dorcus View Post
    I think he's a just a crazy mixed up kid, the poor dear.
    I used to think just Tories were baddies , I now have a revised view .

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