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Thread: Johnson, I know I'm biased, but..................................

  1. #76

    Re: Johnson, I know I'm biased, but..................................

    Quote Originally Posted by Gofer Blue View Post
    If there is to be second referendum for heaven's sake set a minimum of 66.6% majority limit. That way no-one can argue that it was a "very close run thing". If this is not achieved then the whole shabang is off and we stick with the status quo. Maybe try again in 10 years time if there is any appetite for a repeat of the fiasco that is!
    Absolutely right Gofer. Hats off, perhaps the most sensible post for a long time.

  2. #77

    Re: Johnson, I know I'm biased, but..................................

    Quote Originally Posted by Dorcus View Post
    Absolutely right Gofer. Hats off, perhaps the most sensible post for a long time.
    I think that was also Cameron's big mistake back in 2016. Had he set a two-thirds majority then, then none of this would have happened. Not being an expert on parliamentary law I recently asked my local MP if there was some legal reason why he did not do this. He said no there was reason, it was up to Cameron to set the majority figure, so he obviously went for the simple >50%. I suspect Cameron and Co were so confident that the majority of voters would opt for remain that it never entered his head to do anything else.

    I know we have a first-past-the-post system when it comes to general elections but a referendum is a different kettle of fish. A decision of this magnitude which affects generations into the future needs a clear mandate from the people and if one is not apparent, then you do not press ahead.

  3. #78

    Re: Johnson, I know I'm biased, but..................................

    Quote Originally Posted by Gofer Blue View Post
    I think that was also Cameron's big mistake back in 2016. Had he set a two-thirds majority then, then none of this would have happened. Not being an expert on parliamentary law I recently asked my local MP if there was some legal reason why he did not do this. He said no there was reason, it was up to Cameron to set the majority figure, so he obviously went for the simple >50%. I suspect Cameron and Co were so confident that the majority of voters would opt for remain that it never entered his head to do anything else.

    I know we have a first-past-the-post system when it comes to general elections but a referendum is a different kettle of fish. A decision of this magnitude which affects generations into the future needs a clear mandate from the people and if one is not apparent, then you do not press ahead.
    Cameron is a tosspot: that explains it.

  4. #79

    Re: Johnson, I know I'm biased, but..................................

    Quote Originally Posted by CCFCC3PO View Post
    Now, if you don't mind me asking, what is the mandate for a no-deal Brexit in the UK?
    You didn't answer my question.

  5. #80

    Re: Johnson, I know I'm biased, but..................................

    Quote Originally Posted by Gofer Blue View Post
    If there is to be second referendum for heaven's sake set a minimum of 66.6% majority limit. That way no-one can argue that it was a "very close run thing". If this is not achieved then the whole shabang is off and we stick with the status quo. Maybe try again in 10 years time if there is any appetite for a repeat of the fiasco that is!
    But following the 2016 referendum and the passing of the act to invoke article 50, the status quo is that we leave the EU.

    Therefore under your plan if Remain doesn't get 66.6% we still leave?

  6. #81

    Re: Johnson, I know I'm biased, but..................................

    Quote Originally Posted by Dorcus View Post
    Cameron is a tosspot: that explains it.

    And now we come full circle back to the idea that your vote should be worth twice that of mine. Absolutely any excuse to get your own way and absolutely no regard for democracy when it doesn't suit you.
    What if we said that you needed a two thirds majority to reverse an existing referendum result ? That'd make more sense, but perhaps it'd be better to stick with one man one vote .

    They tried your proposals in Apartheid South Afrika, but it didn't really work, did it ?

    We recently established that you thought Mahatma Ghandi was evil , and now we find that you're in some sympathy with the Apartheid voting system. Of course you won't like these conclusions ,but they're the logical outcomes of your statements, so I wonder whether you think it might be time to reconsider some of your rather dogmatic dictats ?

  7. #82

    Re: Johnson, I know I'm biased, but..................................

    Quote Originally Posted by RonnieBird View Post
    And now we come full circle back to the idea that your vote should be worth twice that of mine. Absolutely any excuse to get your own way and absolutely no regard for democracy when it doesn't suit you.
    What if we said that you needed a two thirds majority to reverse an existing referendum result ? That'd make more sense, but perhaps it'd be better to stick with one man one vote .

    They tried your proposals in Apartheid South Afrika, but it didn't really work, did it ?

    We recently established that you thought Mahatma Ghandi was evil , and now we find that you're in some sympathy with the Apartheid voting system. Of course you won't like these conclusions ,but they're the logical outcomes of your statements, so I wonder whether you think it might be time to reconsider some of your rather dogmatic dictats ?
    As regards your paragraph 2 I refer the honourable gentlemen to the answer I gave a short while ago

  8. #83

    Re: Johnson, I know I'm biased, but..................................

    Quote Originally Posted by Elwood Blues View Post
    As regards your paragraph 2 I refer the honourable gentlemen to the answer I gave a short while ago
    You've be watching too much Prime Minister's Questions. Do you bow your head before you start typing?


  9. #84

    Re: Johnson, I know I'm biased, but..................................

    Quote Originally Posted by Wales-Bales View Post
    You've be watching too much Prime Minister's Questions. Do you bow your head before you start typing?

    No but I do find myself calling out "Order ORDER! at odd times during the day!

  10. #85

    Re: Johnson, I know I'm biased, but..................................

    Quote Originally Posted by Elwood Blues View Post
    No but I do find myself calling out "Order ORDER! at odd times during the day!

    "Don't gesticulate. Don't rant. Spare us the theatrics. Behave yourself. Be a good boy, young man! BE A GOOD BOY!!"

  11. #86

    Re: Johnson, I know I'm biased, but..................................

    Quote Originally Posted by Elwood Blues View Post
    But following the 2016 referendum and the passing of the act to invoke article 50, the status quo is that we leave the EU.

    Therefore under your plan if Remain doesn't get 66.6% we still leave?
    No. If neither side achieves 66.6% of the vote then it means there is not sufficient mandate to proceed. Article 50 would then be revoked and the status quo is that the UK remains within the EU. As I said, such a monumental decision needs a VERY CLEAR majority. A general election result is different as it is for a limited time period and the country can then vote again to boot out the government of the day if things don't turn out too well.

  12. #87

    Re: Johnson, I know I'm biased, but..................................

    Scottish court finds Parliament suspension unlawful

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-49661855

  13. #88

    Re: Johnson, I know I'm biased, but..................................

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    Scottish court finds Parliament suspension unlawful

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-49661855
    This could get interesting. I wonder if there's any merit in the parallel Gina Miller case joining with them as a "supercase' in the supreme court? On the face of it that could provide more legal heft to ensure a successful outcome but I'm not a legal eagle so I can't see the possible flaws in that course of action.

  14. #89

    Re: Johnson, I know I'm biased, but..................................

    Quote Originally Posted by Dorcus View Post
    This could get interesting. I wonder if there's any merit in the parallel Gina Miller case joining with them as a "supercase' in the supreme court? On the face of it that could provide more legal heft to ensure a successful outcome but I'm not a legal eagle so I can't see the possible flaws in that course of action.
    It seems all 3 cases are expected to be heard together at the Supreme Court next week.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics...gh-court-rules

    No idea what the outcome or repercussions might be though

  15. #90

    Re: Johnson, I know I'm biased, but..................................

    Quote Originally Posted by Veg1960 View Post
    It seems all 3 cases are expected to be heard together at the Supreme Court next week.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics...gh-court-rules

    No idea what the outcome or repercussions might be though
    Good news I think. I'd forgotten there was also a third Northern Ireland case Veg. That province's peculiar situation might provide additional force to the argument.

  16. #91

    Re: Johnson, I know I'm biased, but..................................

    Quote Originally Posted by Dorcus View Post
    Good news I think. I'd forgotten there was also a third Northern Ireland case Veg. That province's peculiar situation might provide additional force to the argument.
    Lord knows what's going on with Ireland. On one hand he seems relaxed about throwing Ireland under the bus, on the other the DUP seemed quite relaxed after their meeting with him yesterday.

  17. #92

    Re: Johnson, I know I'm biased, but..................................

    Quote Originally Posted by Veg1960 View Post
    Lord knows what's going on with Ireland. On one hand he seems relaxed about throwing Ireland under the bus, on the other the DUP seemed quite relaxed after their meeting with him yesterday.
    He is known for telling people what they want to hear, mind.

  18. #93

    Re: Johnson, I know I'm biased, but..................................

    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post
    He is known for telling people what they want to hear, mind.
    The Scottish court has just ruled that he lied to the queen. Not sure what happens now

  19. #94

    Re: Johnson, I know I'm biased, but..................................

    Quote Originally Posted by Rjk View Post
    The Scottish court has just ruled that he lied to the queen. Not sure what happens now
    Off with his head

  20. #95

    Re: Johnson, I know I'm biased, but..................................

    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post
    He is known for telling people what they want to hear, mind.
    That thought had occurred to me TBH

  21. #96

    Re: Johnson, I know I'm biased, but..................................

    Quote Originally Posted by Rjk View Post
    The Scottish court has just ruled that he lied to the queen. Not sure what happens now

    Nothing whatever.

  22. #97

    Re: Johnson, I know I'm biased, but..................................

    Interestingly ,all these tantrums and shennanigans and the media love in are having the opposite effect to that which is intended since Boris is now 14 points above his nearest rival .

  23. #98

    Re: Johnson, I know I'm biased, but..................................

    Quote Originally Posted by RonnieBird View Post
    Interestingly ,all these tantrums and shennanigans and the media love in are having the opposite effect to that which is intended since Boris is now 14 points above his nearest rival .
    Another poll today suggests otherwise. Perhaps these psephologists have suddenly thought of polling outside their local Wetherspoons

  24. #99
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    Re: Johnson, I know I'm biased, but..................................

    Quote Originally Posted by Veg1960 View Post
    Lord knows what's going on with Ireland. On one hand he seems relaxed about throwing Ireland under the bus, on the other the DUP seemed quite relaxed after their meeting with him yesterday.
    The signals from Johnson in the past week were that he was looking for a Northern Ireland backstop (and that was reflected in informal comments from Irish politicians, commentators and business representatives after talks with him or government negotiators) and was ready to throw the DUP under the bus if he could more than compensate with pro-deal Labour votes. A border down the Irish Sea and use of a different font and he could bring back Theresa May's deal for the 4th (5th?) time. Today he has ruled that out (in his farcical People's PMQs on Facebook) - so back to seeking unicorns!

  25. #100

    Re: Johnson, I know I'm biased, but..................................

    Quote Originally Posted by jon1959 View Post
    The signals from Johnson in the past week were that he was looking for a Northern Ireland backstop (and that was reflected in informal comments from Irish politicians, commentators and business representatives after talks with him or government negotiators) and was ready to throw the DUP under the bus if he could more than compensate with pro-deal Labour votes. A border down the Irish Sea and use of a different font and he could bring back Theresa May's deal for the 4th (5th?) time. Today he has ruled that out (in his farcical People's PMQs on Facebook) - so back to seeking unicorns!
    Seems to me the strategy is just to use time and the lack of Parliamentary humiliation to regroup and sail through a few weeks of Doldrums in the hope that people will forget Johnson's incapability over the last fortnight. He will try to put Brexit in the background (dog whistling on social media) whilst playing up the spend spend spend end of austerity pitch before the Queen's speech.

    The problem where they are today is at some point they will have to dick some one over. Options seem to be Arlene and the gang or waiting until the last minute to tack right with the ERG and Farage. Either way going to the polls where people think you are untrustworthy by showing you are untrustworthy to previous believers is a high risk strategy.

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