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Thread: Mystery CCFC Directors Scrutinised by the Trust

  1. #1

    Mystery CCFC Directors Scrutinised by the Trust

    Trust chair and football finance expert, Keith Morgan, gives his verdict on whether Cardiff City directors would pass or fail proposed new Owner and Director Tests drawn up by the Football Supporters’ Association’s (FSA) in a recent paper requested by the Football Association.

    For owners, the paper proposes that anyone taking ownership of more than 25% of a club’s shares should firstly be required to pass a test proving that they have a sustainable business plan for the club and that they will appoint people to be the club’s directors that have the skills and experience to run it properly, including having satisfactory engagement with the club’s supporters and other stakeholders.

    Tests for both owners and directors would involve full disclosure of any previous personal insolvency issues, failures as a director of insolvent companies, criminal convictions etc. and that any such incidences should be regarded prima facie as a bar from becoming an owner or director. There would also be a bar on owners borrowing money to buy a club but giving the lender security over club assets for that lending i.e. borrowing money personally, but leaving the burden of that lending to be met by the club.

    The first thing to say is, of course, to express our sympathy to our fellow fans at Bury FC following their expulsion from the English Football League (EFL). We’re pleased that Bolton Wanderers has been saved from a similar fate to that of Bury.

    If the proposed new rules for Owner and Director fitness tests had been applied in the Bury case, the sad outcome may well have been avoided.

    At Cardiff City we are fortunate in that, as Chair of Cardiff City Supporters’ Trust, I have regular meetings with the Chief Executive Ken Choo and also dialogue with the Chair Mehmet Dalman on issues such as corporate governance at the club, its overall financial strategy etc. to receive at least a degree of assurance and comfort for our fans that a Bury or Bolton crisis situation will not happen at our club.

    Also, our involvement with the FSA enables us to be kept up to date with discussions with the football authorities and to provide our input into those discussions.

    One issue to be considered perhaps is, if the proposed new Owner and Director tests were applied to Cardiff City FC (CCFC), how would its owner and directors be assessed? This cannot be determined accurately, and is looked at now with the benefit of hindsight and applying proposed rules which were not in force at the time of their appointment.

    These are my personal views of how they might be applied to the owner and directors of Cardiff City.

    Owner – Tan Sri Vincent Tan

    No history of past business failures and has invested heavily with his own money into the club without taking it out by way of dividends, bonuses or even loan repayments as debt due to him has largely either been written off or converted into non-repayable shares as part of a historical promise to do so.

    No football knowledge or experience before involvement with CCFC but has gained a lot since, including with other clubs.

    Would pass new owner test – YES

    Chair – Mehmet Dalman

    Highly successful businessman, with no record of business failure. Also invested in the club (since repaid) through a business in which he has an interest at a time when the club needed a cash injection.

    Had football experience before CCFC, including involvement with owners of Manchester United and has certainly dealt with football problems and issues since at CCFC.

    Would pass director test – YES

    Chief Executive – Ken Choo

    Experienced businessman and qualified accountant, but no football experience prior to joining CCFC. Has since gained huge experience at this club and other football clubs owned or part owned by Vincent Tan. Test applied to Ken would have been financial skills level he brought to club.

    Would pass director test – YES

    Director – Steve Borley

    Very experienced and successful local businessman, who has invested into the club when required to assist it financially and is also a long standing fan of the club.

    Would pass director test – YES

    Director – Derek Chee Seng Chin

    Research shows him to be a senior lawyer in Vincent Tan’s Berjaya business empire but appears to be the owner’s employee rather than to have any specific role for the benefit of CCFC (the club uses external lawyers for its own advice).

    Would pass director test –NO, as actual work for CCFC as an entity unclear

    Director – Marco Ronaldo Caramella

    Not clear what his direct role at CCFC is, but he is a highly successful businessman in Malaysia and has a Cardiff link from his schooldays here. Possible role is in some form of profile raising or seeking additional investors for the club in Malaysia.

    Would pass director test – UNLIKELY, as role seems more “ambassadorial” than any role in actually running the football club

    Director – Danni Rais

    Even doing some research makes it unclear what Danni Rais does, but he seems to have a high social profile back in ,Malaysia and his father was a senior figure in government there until recently. No apparent role at CCFC.

    Would pass director test –NO

    Director – Ronald Issen

    Has a senior role in a business which raised a lot of money in the USA last year , but no apparent reason for him being involved in CCFC and far from clear why he was made a director in 2018.

    Would pass director test – NO


    http://www.ccfctrust.org

  2. #2

    Re: Mystery CCFC Directors Scrutinised by the Trust

    Quote Originally Posted by Enoch Mort View Post
    Trust chair and football finance expert, Keith Morgan, gives his verdict on whether Cardiff City directors would pass or fail proposed new Owner and Director Tests drawn up by the Football Supporters’ Association’s (FSA) in a recent paper requested by the Football Association.

    For owners, the paper proposes that anyone taking ownership of more than 25% of a club’s shares should firstly be required to pass a test proving that they have a sustainable business plan for the club and that they will appoint people to be the club’s directors that have the skills and experience to run it properly, including having satisfactory engagement with the club’s supporters and other stakeholders.

    Tests for both owners and directors would involve full disclosure of any previous personal insolvency issues, failures as a director of insolvent companies, criminal convictions etc. and that any such incidences should be regarded prima facie as a bar from becoming an owner or director. There would also be a bar on owners borrowing money to buy a club but giving the lender security over club assets for that lending i.e. borrowing money personally, but leaving the burden of that lending to be met by the club.

    The first thing to say is, of course, to express our sympathy to our fellow fans at Bury FC following their expulsion from the English Football League (EFL). We’re pleased that Bolton Wanderers has been saved from a similar fate to that of Bury.

    If the proposed new rules for Owner and Director fitness tests had been applied in the Bury case, the sad outcome may well have been avoided.

    At Cardiff City we are fortunate in that, as Chair of Cardiff City Supporters’ Trust, I have regular meetings with the Chief Executive Ken Choo and also dialogue with the Chair Mehmet Dalman on issues such as corporate governance at the club, its overall financial strategy etc. to receive at least a degree of assurance and comfort for our fans that a Bury or Bolton crisis situation will not happen at our club.

    Also, our involvement with the FSA enables us to be kept up to date with discussions with the football authorities and to provide our input into those discussions.

    One issue to be considered perhaps is, if the proposed new Owner and Director tests were applied to Cardiff City FC (CCFC), how would its owner and directors be assessed? This cannot be determined accurately, and is looked at now with the benefit of hindsight and applying proposed rules which were not in force at the time of their appointment.

    These are my personal views of how they might be applied to the owner and directors of Cardiff City.

    Owner – Tan Sri Vincent Tan

    No history of past business failures and has invested heavily with his own money into the club without taking it out by way of dividends, bonuses or even loan repayments as debt due to him has largely either been written off or converted into non-repayable shares as part of a historical promise to do so.

    No football knowledge or experience before involvement with CCFC but has gained a lot since, including with other clubs.

    Would pass new owner test – YES

    Chair – Mehmet Dalman

    Highly successful businessman, with no record of business failure. Also invested in the club (since repaid) through a business in which he has an interest at a time when the club needed a cash injection.

    Had football experience before CCFC, including involvement with owners of Manchester United and has certainly dealt with football problems and issues since at CCFC.

    Would pass director test – YES

    Chief Executive – Ken Choo

    Experienced businessman and qualified accountant, but no football experience prior to joining CCFC. Has since gained huge experience at this club and other football clubs owned or part owned by Vincent Tan. Test applied to Ken would have been financial skills level he brought to club.

    Would pass director test – YES

    Director – Steve Borley

    Very experienced and successful local businessman, who has invested into the club when required to assist it financially and is also a long standing fan of the club.

    Would pass director test – YES

    Director – Derek Chee Seng Chin

    Research shows him to be a senior lawyer in Vincent Tan’s Berjaya business empire but appears to be the owner’s employee rather than to have any specific role for the benefit of CCFC (the club uses external lawyers for its own advice).

    Would pass director test –NO, as actual work for CCFC as an entity unclear

    Director – Marco Ronaldo Caramella

    Not clear what his direct role at CCFC is, but he is a highly successful businessman in Malaysia and has a Cardiff link from his schooldays here. Possible role is in some form of profile raising or seeking additional investors for the club in Malaysia.

    Would pass director test – UNLIKELY, as role seems more “ambassadorial” than any role in actually running the football club

    Director – Danni Rais

    Even doing some research makes it unclear what Danni Rais does, but he seems to have a high social profile back in ,Malaysia and his father was a senior figure in government there until recently. No apparent role at CCFC.

    Would pass director test –NO

    Director – Ronald Issen

    Has a senior role in a business which raised a lot of money in the USA last year , but no apparent reason for him being involved in CCFC and far from clear why he was made a director in 2018.

    Would pass director test – NO


    http://www.ccfctrust.org


    How about Swansea's board would any of them pass?

  3. #3

    Re: Mystery CCFC Directors Scrutinised by the Trust

    I note that ambassadorial type work is, apparently, not considered sufficient to earn a pass under the new rules, so what would the directors who Keith feels may fail the test needed to do to correct the situation?

  4. #4

    Re: Mystery CCFC Directors Scrutinised by the Trust

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    I note that ambassadorial type work is, apparently, not considered sufficient to earn a pass under the new rules, so what would the directors who Keith feels may fail the test needed to do to correct the situation?
    I’ve seen the names of the 4 “fails” listed in the match day programme and wondered who on earth they are. VT, KC, MD and SB are well known to all of us but what do these 4 do ? Have they ever been to a board meeting ? Have they ever been to Cardiff ? For that matter are there ever any board meetings ? Perhaps they are just puppets recruited to fulfill some arcane bit of company law ? Anyway, to have 4 directors who are perceived to be “not fit for purpose” by the application of proposed tests for their suitability might be considered to be a bit embarrassing if not a matter for concern.

  5. #5
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    Re: Mystery CCFC Directors Scrutinised by the Trust

    Are they non-executive directors? Do they get paid salaries or retainers by the club?
    If they are not able to out vote VT does their presence really matter in the great scheme of things?
    Maybe if they are being paid it us a way for VT to get money back whilst seeming to keep his promise not to take the loan interest etc. If they aren't paid I cant see the point. Can anyone?

  6. #6

    Re: Mystery CCFC Directors Scrutinised by the Trust

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebina View Post
    How about Swansea's board would any of them pass?
    Who cares?

  7. #7

    Re: Mystery CCFC Directors Scrutinised by the Trust

    Quote Originally Posted by xsnaggle View Post
    Are they non-executive directors? Do they get paid salaries or retainers by the club?
    If they are not able to out vote VT does their presence really matter in the great scheme of things?
    Maybe if they are being paid it us a way for VT to get money back whilst seeming to keep his promise not to take the loan interest etc. If they aren't paid I cant see the point. Can anyone?
    All very good questions which I certainly don't know the answer to.

    So, to sum up, we have 4 directors possibly not fit for purpose who have probably never even been to Cardiff and an owner and 3 other directors who are not exactly experienced in running a football club. A more cynical person than me might suggest that NW could have a field day dealing with that lot

  8. #8

    Re: Mystery CCFC Directors Scrutinised by the Trust

    Quote Originally Posted by Enoch Mort View Post
    All very good questions which I certainly don't know the answer to.

    So, to sum up, we have 4 directors possibly not fit for purpose who have probably never even been to Cardiff and an owner and 3 other directors who are not exactly experienced in running a football club. A more cynical person than me might suggest that NW could have a field day dealing with that lot
    I think it unfair to say that they are not now experienced in running a football club.
    They are. Ok, so they haven’t been doing it for as long as some but that doesn’t mean they are any less good at doing so.

  9. #9

    Re: Mystery CCFC Directors Scrutinised by the Trust

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebina View Post
    How about Swansea's board would any of them pass?
    Why would this be the first thing you think of after reading that?

  10. #10

    Re: Mystery CCFC Directors Scrutinised by the Trust

    Quote Originally Posted by Enoch Mort View Post
    Trust chair and football finance expert, Keith Morgan, gives his verdict on whether Cardiff City directors would pass or fail proposed new Owner and Director Tests drawn up by the Football Supporters’ Association’s (FSA) in a recent paper requested by the Football Association.

    For owners, the paper proposes that anyone taking ownership of more than 25% of a club’s shares should firstly be required to pass a test proving that they have a sustainable business plan for the club and that they will appoint people to be the club’s directors that have the skills and experience to run it properly, including having satisfactory engagement with the club’s supporters and other stakeholders.

    Tests for both owners and directors would involve full disclosure of any previous personal insolvency issues, failures as a director of insolvent companies, criminal convictions etc. and that any such incidences should be regarded prima facie as a bar from becoming an owner or director. There would also be a bar on owners borrowing money to buy a club but giving the lender security over club assets for that lending i.e. borrowing money personally, but leaving the burden of that lending to be met by the club.

    The first thing to say is, of course, to express our sympathy to our fellow fans at Bury FC following their expulsion from the English Football League (EFL). We’re pleased that Bolton Wanderers has been saved from a similar fate to that of Bury.

    If the proposed new rules for Owner and Director fitness tests had been applied in the Bury case, the sad outcome may well have been avoided.

    At Cardiff City we are fortunate in that, as Chair of Cardiff City Supporters’ Trust, I have regular meetings with the Chief Executive Ken Choo and also dialogue with the Chair Mehmet Dalman on issues such as corporate governance at the club, its overall financial strategy etc. to receive at least a degree of assurance and comfort for our fans that a Bury or Bolton crisis situation will not happen at our club.

    Also, our involvement with the FSA enables us to be kept up to date with discussions with the football authorities and to provide our input into those discussions.

    One issue to be considered perhaps is, if the proposed new Owner and Director tests were applied to Cardiff City FC (CCFC), how would its owner and directors be assessed? This cannot be determined accurately, and is looked at now with the benefit of hindsight and applying proposed rules which were not in force at the time of their appointment.

    These are my personal views of how they might be applied to the owner and directors of Cardiff City.

    Owner – Tan Sri Vincent Tan

    No history of past business failures and has invested heavily with his own money into the club without taking it out by way of dividends, bonuses or even loan repayments as debt due to him has largely either been written off or converted into non-repayable shares as part of a historical promise to do so.

    No football knowledge or experience before involvement with CCFC but has gained a lot since, including with other clubs.

    Would pass new owner test – YES

    Chair – Mehmet Dalman

    Highly successful businessman, with no record of business failure. Also invested in the club (since repaid) through a business in which he has an interest at a time when the club needed a cash injection.

    Had football experience before CCFC, including involvement with owners of Manchester United and has certainly dealt with football problems and issues since at CCFC.

    Would pass director test – YES

    Chief Executive – Ken Choo

    Experienced businessman and qualified accountant, but no football experience prior to joining CCFC. Has since gained huge experience at this club and other football clubs owned or part owned by Vincent Tan. Test applied to Ken would have been financial skills level he brought to club.

    Would pass director test – YES

    Director – Steve Borley

    Very experienced and successful local businessman, who has invested into the club when required to assist it financially and is also a long standing fan of the club.

    Would pass director test – YES

    Director – Derek Chee Seng Chin

    Research shows him to be a senior lawyer in Vincent Tan’s Berjaya business empire but appears to be the owner’s employee rather than to have any specific role for the benefit of CCFC (the club uses external lawyers for its own advice).

    Would pass director test –NO, as actual work for CCFC as an entity unclear

    Director – Marco Ronaldo Caramella

    Not clear what his direct role at CCFC is, but he is a highly successful businessman in Malaysia and has a Cardiff link from his schooldays here. Possible role is in some form of profile raising or seeking additional investors for the club in Malaysia.

    Would pass director test – UNLIKELY, as role seems more “ambassadorial” than any role in actually running the football club

    Director – Danni Rais

    Even doing some research makes it unclear what Danni Rais does, but he seems to have a high social profile back in ,Malaysia and his father was a senior figure in government there until recently. No apparent role at CCFC.

    Would pass director test –NO

    Director – Ronald Issen

    Has a senior role in a business which raised a lot of money in the USA last year , but no apparent reason for him being involved in CCFC and far from clear why he was made a director in 2018.

    Would pass director test – NO


    http://www.ccfctrust.org
    Does it matter?

  11. #11

    Re: Mystery CCFC Directors Scrutinised by the Trust

    Quote Originally Posted by stan butler View Post
    Does it matter?
    I suppose if you think that it doesn't matter that football clubs have fit and proper persons involved in their running then no. I expect that Glasgow Rangers fans wish they'd never had Craig Whyte running their club. He was found not to be a fit and proper person.

  12. #12

    Re: Mystery CCFC Directors Scrutinised by the Trust

    It occurs to me that no director can have experience of being a director of a football club unless they become a director of a football club without experience.

  13. #13
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    Re: Mystery CCFC Directors Scrutinised by the Trust

    For what it’s worth the Berjaya connection is linked to the Serbian/Croatian club that VT has/had significant interest in

    Similarly the Issen chap is linked to the US football club that VT has/had holdings in

    Rais is the son of a VT mate

    Caramella is a waste of space football wise but does a good spag bol

  14. #14

    Re: Mystery CCFC Directors Scrutinised by the Trust

    Quote Originally Posted by Enoch Mort View Post
    I suppose if you think that it doesn't matter that football clubs have fit and proper persons involved in their running then no. I expect that Glasgow Rangers fans wish they'd never had Craig Whyte running their club. He was found not to be a fit and proper person.
    Can you show me how these are bad for the club?? What have they done wrong so far? And what makes you think they will do only bad in the future?

  15. #15

    Re: Mystery CCFC Directors Scrutinised by the Trust

    Quote Originally Posted by stan butler View Post
    Can you show me how these are bad for the club?? What have they done wrong so far? And what makes you think they will do only bad in the future?
    I can’t and haven’t said that they are bad for the club, I have tried to choose my words carefully. Having said that It doesn’t seem apparent that they have done anything for the club. I would like to be persuaded that they are something other than names in the programme but they never seem to get a mention in matters Cardiff City.

    I thought Keith Morgan’s application of proposed rules interesting in that, for me, it has highlighted these 4 names and the perception that their contribution to the club appears to be, at best, negligible. We currently appear to have a board of 4 active members whose football experience is limited and a manager whose empirical football knowledge vastly outweighs theirs. That, in my view, is unhealthy. The board would benefit greatly from some football experience to counter balance the current situation. These 4 possibly absentee and non contributory board members based in Malaysia don’t help that situation.

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