Playing out from the back

[Wales-Bales]

Losing possession when playing out from the back doesn't necessarily result in goals. If you have the right type of players who can perform well in this system, it will usually results in more points gained than are lost. Regarding goalkeepers, Manual Neuer is great when he plays as an extra defender to beat the opposition press.

This system is pointless for teams like Cardiff though, who simply don't have the players. It may be different for Wales in a few years time, as Mepham, Rodon and Ampadu are all comfortable playing it on the deck and keeping possession.

[thehumblegringo]

Who started this crap. Was it Man City.?

I really don't know.

After Arses performance today it must be on the way out.

The old goal kick is a collosal advantage for defenders.
This tippy tappy we can do anything we want is garbage. It's actually making footballers that are paid millions a year look pathetic.

It's a game I love but FFS coaches drop this nonsense.

Superb analysis by Neville especially and should answer all your questions!

https://www.fullmatchesandshows.com/...eptember-2019/


Before someone objects, I know we haven't got the players capable of playing this way and it would be suicide for us to do it, but it's worth pointing out that Daniel Farke has spent less than Warnock so if only we had a better manager eh?

[Pedro de la Rosa]

Superb analysis by Neville especially and should answer all your questions!

https://www.fullmatchesandshows.com/...eptember-2019/


Before someone objects, I know we haven't got the players capable of playing this way and it would be suicide for us to do it, but it's worth pointing out that Daniel Farke has spent less than Warnock so if only we had a better manager eh?

Norwich have Webber and the whole club is set up to identify young players, blood young players and grow. They've also nailed their youth academy in reason seasons with Aarons, Cantwell, Adams, Murphy x2 etc, as well as spotting Maddison early. Also, identifying the German market as an area to exploit.

I realise this isn't news but Norwich are streets of us off the pitch (and on it).

[thehumblegringo]

Norwich have Webber and the whole club is set up to identify young players, blood young players and grow. They've also nailed their youth academy in reason seasons with Aarons, Cantwell, Adams, Murphy x2 etc, as well as spotting Maddison early. Also, identifying the German market as an area to exploit.

I realise this isn't news but Norwich are streets of us off the pitch (and on it).

Stuart Webber has got to be the best sporting director in Britain at present and they also have a loan manager who aids the progression of their young talent by carefully selecting the clubs to loan their youngsters to in order to enhance their development.

Maddison wasn't a huge secret, I remember posting about him on here when he was at Coventry.

[Pedro de la Rosa]

Stuart Webber has got to be the best sporting director in Britain at present and they also have a loan manager who aids the progression of their young talent by carefully selecting the clubs to loan their youngsters to in order to enhance their development.

Maddison wasn't a huge secret, I remember posting about him on here when he was at Coventry.

I think he had a bit of a wobble at Coventry and they took the punt. Benefits of being in the Premier League at the time I suppose!

Webber has done a cracking job, and he's Welsh! Vincent, sign him up

[RonnieBird]

What is the logical point in risking losing possession in front of your own goal if you don't have to ?
It's as simple as that really

[Wales-Bales]

What is the logical point in risking losing possession in front of your own goal if you don't have to ?
It's as simple as that really

The teams in the other European leagues are further down the road with regards to possession based football, and people like Gary Neville are actually a bit late to the game. You need the right coaches and playing staff to make it work, and they need to be well drilled. It's actually easier than it looks to keep possession when all of the opposition players are in front of you, and a well drilled side will have no problems keeping hold of the ball until a transition in play occurs. If a mistake is made, it doesn't mean the other team will definitely score, and a lot of situations are recoverable. However, it's not easy to adopt to this way of playing, so it's not a tactic that you could spring on a team at short notice, and sometimes it is impossible due to the shortcomings of the player who are available.

[Tuerto]

What is the logical point in risking losing possession in front of your own goal if you don't have to ?
It's as simple as that really

There is no logical reason to pumping the ball up to players with their back to goal and effectively making the chances of possession 50-50 all of the time. Nobody can control the ball on their head, all we are relying on is anticipating second balls. That's just shit.

[Wales-Bales]

There is no logical reason to pumping the ball up to players with their back to goal and effectively making the chances of possession 50-50 all of the time. Nobody can control the ball on their head, all we are relying on is anticipating second balls. That's just shit.

It's the only option if Sam Vokes is playing up front!

[RonnieBird]

There is no logical reason to pumping the ball up to players with their back to goal and effectively making the chances of possession 50-50 all of the time. Nobody can control the ball on their head, all we are relying on is anticipating second balls. That's just shit.

Well first of all it needn't be 50/50 if you've got a good target man and wingers , but here's the logic - if you lose a long ball that's unfortunate but not immediately dangerous. On the other hand, if you lose it whilst buggering about with the ball in your own half or in front of your own goal , you've got no time to react and it can be in your net a few seconds later.
It's a matter of reducing risks where that's possible and if you're trying to win matches you've got to do that. It depends where your priority is though, and if you think it's worth taking risks you could avoid for the sake of artistic content then so be it.
Someone there said I "haven't got a clue", but that's not so. It's certainly not so for various coaches such as our manager , Sam Allerdyce or Ron Atkinson in recent times or many many others who got the best out of limited players by loading the dice in this and other ways.

[Divine Wright]

Well first of all it needn't be 50/50 if you've got a good target man and wingers , but here's the logic - if you lose a long ball that's unfortunate but not immediately dangerous. On the other hand, if you lose it whilst buggering about with the ball in your own half or in front of your own goal , you've got no time to react and it can be in your net a few seconds later.
It's a matter of reducing risks where that's possible and if you're trying to win matches you've got to do that. It depends where your priority is though, and if you think it's worth taking risks you could avoid for the sake of artistic content then so be it.
Someone there said I "haven't got a clue", but that's not so. It's certainly not so for various coaches such as our manager , Sam Allerdyce or Ron Atkinson in recent times or many many others who got the best out of limited players by loading the dice in this and other ways.

Recent times ? Atkinson?

Atkinson is also shit and a racist.

Jesus wept.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Well first of all it needn't be 50/50 if you've got a good target man and wingers , but here's the logic - if you lose a long ball that's unfortunate but not immediately dangerous. On the other hand, if you lose it whilst buggering about with the ball in your own half or in front of your own goal , you've got no time to react and it can be in your net a few seconds later.
It's a matter of reducing risks where that's possible and if you're trying to win matches you've got to do that. It depends where your priority is though, and if you think it's worth taking risks you could avoid for the sake of artistic content then so be it.
Someone there said I "haven't got a clue", but that's not so. It's certainly not so for various coaches such as our manager , Sam Allerdyce or Ron Atkinson in recent times or many many others who got the best out of limited players by loading the dice in this and other ways.

I remember watching Atkinson's Villa a number of times in the 90s and to even consider the football that side played as similar as Warnockball shows you don't know what you're talking about.

Also, your comment, which I have highlighted, shows that your lack of understanding of the game has attained new heights. If you really think that passing the ball about the back is merely for show, I'd consider following something simpler, like the card game, Snap.

[RonnieBird]

I remember watching Atkinson's Villa a number of times in the 90s and to even consider the football that side played as similar as Warnockball shows you don't know what you're talking about.

Also, your comment, which I have highlighted, shows that your lack of understanding of the game has attained new heights. If you really think that passing the ball about the back is merely for show, I'd consider following something simpler, like the card game, Snap.

I may be many things Eric, but simple isn't one of them. Your comment is interesting , since football is - on the face of it -one of the simplest games on earth. That's why some of the people here think they understand it. Compared to lots of other stuff it actually is fairly simple of course , but like anything else it's capable of improvement by intelligent thought.
I have admiration for those who can apply such intelligent thought to improve the performance of a football team, and it's possible to understand to some extent how they're achieving that . Observing the performance of a more expensive and to be fair more skilful team them concluding that we should do that isn't a very intelligent view.

You mention one of the many teams Ron Atkinson has managed as if he's always done it that way, but of course he's done it many ways and always played to the strengths of the players he has available, whilst avoiding the stuff they can't do. I might mention the extreme route one football he used at Peterborough.

Tell you what's definitely NOT intelligent.... Calling people names and acting like a spoilt child whilst discussing alternative tactics. In the real world of big boys activities where we have to make important decisions, people who act like that don't get to take part. It's not going to help anything and it's childishly rude.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

What is the logical point in risking losing possession in front of your own goal if you don't have to ?
It's as simple as that really

Yes, far better to belt it long and lose possession in the opposition's half.

[RonnieBird]

Yes, far better to belt it long and lose possession in the opposition's half.

But if you lose it there it's not immediately dangerous, is it ?

[thehumblegringo]

What is the logical point in risking losing possession in front of your own goal if you don't have to ?
It's as simple as that really

With every post you show how clueless you are.

[Pedro de la Rosa]

With every post you show how clueless you are.

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Best decision I've ever made

[RonnieBird]

With every post you show how clueless you are.

No idea why you want to insult someone instead of either addressing the point or not commenting .

[RonnieBird]

I can well believe that to ignore someone on a message board is well up there with the highest level decisions this kid has been involved in. He's obviously proud of it.

[Wales-Bales]

I can well believe that to ignore someone on a message board is well up there with the highest level decisions this kid has been involved in. He's obviously proud of it.

You are not in the clique, and all cliques need enemies to survive

[Eric the Half a Bee]

But if you lose it there it's not immediately dangerous, is it ?

No, but keep doing that and you keep offering the opposition the chance to start attacks. On MNF yesterday the two pundits were saying that the recent errors were due to mistakes by defenders.

If your defenders aren't capable of playing the ball out from the back, they don't do it. If they are, surely it's better to have possession than whack it long and enter the lottery.

[Rjk]

No, but keep doing that and you keep offering the opposition the chance to start attacks. On MNF yesterday the two pundits were saying that the recent errors were due to mistakes by defenders.

If your defenders aren't capable of playing the ball out from the back, they don't do it. If they are, surely it's better to have possession than whack it long and enter the lottery.

Any professional footballer, especially in the premier League should be capable of playing a simple pass, and there's always the hoof option if nothing else is on.
Of course, they need to train to do it effectively

[Wales-Bales]

Any professional footballer, especially in the premier League should be capable of playing a simple pass, and there's always the hoof option if nothing else is on.
Of course, they need to train to do it effectively

It's more than a simple pass, these kind of transitions require the entire team to function as a single unit. They spend months doing drills and learning rotations on the training pitch.

[RonnieBird]

No, but keep doing that and you keep offering the opposition the chance to start attacks. On MNF yesterday the two pundits were saying that the recent errors were due to mistakes by defenders.

If your defenders aren't capable of playing the ball out from the back, they don't do it. If they are, surely it's better to have possession than whack it long and enter the lottery.

Oh yeah. If they can do it PROPERLY of course you do that , but very very few are, and there's not much prospect of us getting any in the foreseeable future. You've also got to have the right coaching staff to pull that off successfully

[rudy gestede]

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Best decision I've ever made

His opinions just don’t interest me, and they are every other post under different names.

Playing out from the back is the way to go because otherwise you needlessly give away possession almost every goal kick.

Yes there will be the odd error but I’d bet more goals are conceded by needlessly giving away possession by hitting it long.

There is zero excuse for a professional not to be able to play a pass in these situations.