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Thread: "a team who doesn’t really want to play".

  1. #1

    "a team who doesn’t really want to play".

    Phillips Cocu's opinion of us after Friday's game - fair or not?

    https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/...takes-16924248

  2. #2

    Re: "a team who doesn’t really want to play".

    He has his own style of play which is fine and to be encouraged.

    Not just him but I've noticed a few managers come out and comment on how we play and it's usually after a failure to beat us "it's a different style to us" or "it's not how I choose to play".

    They can't be surprised by how we play so I'm not sure who they are trying to convince.

  3. #3

    Re: "a team who doesn’t really want to play".

    Quote Originally Posted by Trigger View Post
    He has his own style of play which is fine and to be encouraged.

    Not just him but I've noticed a few managers come out and comment on how we play and it's usually after a failure to beat us "it's a different style to us" or "it's not how I choose to play".

    They can't be surprised by how we play so I'm not sure who they are trying to convince.
    I tend to agree with you. I have mixed thoughts on Cocu's comments as a whole - making remarks like that sounds like sour grapes when your side has failed to beat us and, in Cocu's case, I daresay that he's trying to divert attention away from what are a poor set of results for his side since beating Huddersfield in their season opener.

    That said, I do feel that we rely on our opponents being braver in their approach than we are and it's when they're not that our limitations become most apparent - we put the onus on the other side to be proactive and ambitious and, for me at least, that's harder to accept when we have the financial resources that we didn't have back in 17/18.

  4. #4

    Re: "a team who doesn’t really want to play".

    Cocu was an ambitious appointment which looked quite exciting when he was appointed but he seems to be more Van Gaal than Guardiola at the moment.

    Perhaps it's a bit unfair cos they lost a lot of attacking talent in the summer so inevitably they were gonna take a bit of a dip.

    When it comes to us, I don't think every opposition manager can be wrong. Our fans have turned on Klopp, Guardiola and just about every other manager we have faced when they address our style of play.

    Having listened to Stuart Webber when he was talking about Norwich when he highlighted one club he wouldn't pay to watch it was Cardiff City!

    It can't all be a conspiracy against us. I dont know if you watched monday night football last night Bob but there was a superb appraisal by Gary Neville as to how football has evolved for the better in the last couple of years.

    https://www.fullmatchesandshows.com/...eptember-2019/

    Unfortunately for us we're being left behind.

  5. #5

    Re: "a team who doesn’t really want to play".

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    Phillips Cocu's opinion of us after Friday's game - fair or not?

    https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/...takes-16924248
    Could have sworn blind, that “dirty bar steward Lawrence” played for Derby !!!

    Definitely “sour grapes”

  6. #6

    Re: "a team who doesn’t really want to play".

    There are many ways to win a game of football . There is no definitive way .
    When Cocu gets sacked he may consider a more direct approach next time .

  7. #7

    Re: "a team who doesn’t really want to play".

    There was a handball in the build up to their goal as well.
    Didn’t mention that though.

  8. #8

    Re: "a team who doesn’t really want to play".

    I'd rather not watch either "style". There's is my worst nightmare, it's possession over anything else. Their wingers got in behind us and they checked back to keep the ball, I couldn't believe what I was seeing. He fell flat on his arse at Fenerbache and they're currently 19th so I suggest he focus on matters closer to home.

  9. #9

    Re: "a team who doesn’t really want to play".

    Dean Smith and Mark Warburton enjoy a good moan about our style of play too.

  10. #10

    Re: "a team who doesn’t really want to play".

    Quote Originally Posted by The Bob Banker Spanker View Post
    Dean Smith and Mark Warburton enjoy a good moan about our style of play too.
    Dean Smith and Mark Warburton seem to enjoy losing to us too

  11. #11

    Re: "a team who doesn’t really want to play".

    Here's another manager talking about wanting to play some kind of artistically creditable football but discovering that in the real world it doesn't work in the Championship, as we can see from his results so far.
    I don't wish it on him, but I can we'll see his being the first sacking of the year.

  12. #12

    Re: "a team who doesn’t really want to play".

    By this time two years ago we had beaten big spenders Aston Villa while playing fantastic football; beaten eventual champions Wolves away from home; scored late goals against Burton, Fulham and Sheffield Wednesday to turn one point into five; and were generally looking like a really good side. Things became more difficult in winter months and we had to battle a bit more but feels like we've skipped over the bit where we were a really good side to watch, for various reasons, and have jumped into the marathon metaphors. As long as a lot of work is being done off the pitch to set us up for next year but the words shared about plans for next year seem to be about changing as little as possible...

  13. #13

    Re: "a team who doesn’t really want to play".

    Cocu has until the Brum game at the end of the month, I'd say.

  14. #14

    Re: "a team who doesn’t really want to play".

    Quote Originally Posted by BLUETIT View Post
    Could have sworn blind, that “dirty bar steward Lawrence” played for Derby !!!

    Definitely “sour grapes”
    Anyone else think that Tom Lawrence and Pat Cummins look alike?

  15. #15

    Re: "a team who doesn’t really want to play".

    Quote Originally Posted by thehumblegringo View Post
    Cocu was an ambitious appointment which looked quite exciting when he was appointed but he seems to be more Van Gaal than Guardiola at the moment.

    Perhaps it's a bit unfair cos they lost a lot of attacking talent in the summer so inevitably they were gonna take a bit of a dip.

    When it comes to us, I don't think every opposition manager can be wrong. Our fans have turned on Klopp, Guardiola and just about every other manager we have faced when they address our style of play.

    Having listened to Stuart Webber when he was talking about Norwich when he highlighted one club he wouldn't pay to watch it was Cardiff City!

    It can't all be a conspiracy against us. I dont know if you watched monday night football last night Bob but there was a superb appraisal by Gary Neville as to how football has evolved for the better in the last couple of years.

    https://www.fullmatchesandshows.com/...eptember-2019/

    Unfortunately for us we're being left behind.
    Thanks Gringo, I found that very interesting - Gary Neville, as near as damnit, said he was a dinosaur in his football thinking.

    The thing is though that you only have to study Neil Warnock's public utterances for a while to discover that so much of his motivation to keep on going and to keep on putting himself through what is a very taxing job for someone of his age especially is the desire to prove people (e.g. former Chairmen he's worked for) wrong. That's why I can imagine him watching that on Monday and muttering to himself that he'll show them - stuff like Neville and Carrager said would make him more determined to stick to his guns.

    As someone who is not that much younger than Neil Warnock, I can say that some of that stubborness comes with age, but I think it's likely that its always been there with our manager.

    Although Norwich ended up with four points more last season than we got when we were promoted, I think they are a club they we can definitely compare ourselves with in this day and age in terms of size, potential and catchment area with one difference between us being how much less they've spent in the transfer market than us in the last two years or so.

    It needs to be said of course that it's entirely possible that Norwich could be relegated this season with less points than we managed, but you have to say it looks unlikely at the moment. Norwich have a team that includes youth products of their's who are assets worth tens of millions of pounds, they have older players who they have brought into the club for low transfer fees that are looking completely at home in the Premier League and they are playing without fear - as proven by the fact that they have won a couple of games already by scoring three times (we only managed to score more than two in a game once last season).

    A year ago this weekend, we hosted Manchester City and, just as in the FA Cup tie with them nine months earlier, set out as if we were scared stiff of them - neither match was remotely competitive. Despite those similarities I mentioned between the two clubs, we are complete opposites of Norwich and so you can easily understand why Stuart Webber is not a fan of ours!

  16. #16

    Re: "a team who doesn’t really want to play".

    Quote Originally Posted by RonnieBird View Post
    I don't wish it on him, but I can we'll see his being the first sacking of the year.
    He definitely won't be the first sacking.

  17. #17

    Re: "a team who doesn’t really want to play".

    We don't hear Warnock moaning about other teams passing it about in the penalty box before the 'keeper hoofs it upfield.

    I think we are not playing well, but will have more options when everyone is fit. Currently we are limited in the way we can play.

  18. #18

    Re: "a team who doesn’t really want to play".

    He has a point, but not a very good one. We play to our strengths (supposedly). It's his job to find a way around that. If he can't figure it out he better find a way pretty quick. It's probably best to not go crying about it in the press either.

  19. #19

    Re: "a team who doesn’t really want to play".

    Quote Originally Posted by cardiff55 View Post
    We don't hear Warnock moaning about other teams passing it about in the penalty box before the 'keeper hoofs it upfield.

    I think we are not playing well, but will have more options when everyone is fit. Currently we are limited in the way we can play.
    We had more options when we had players like Camarasa, Bruno and Decordova-Reid, I'm not sure we have anyone proven at top end of the table level who can give us what those three used to in the areas of the pitch they operated in.

  20. #20

    Re: "a team who doesn’t really want to play".

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    We had more options when we had players like Camarasa, Bruno and Decordova-Reid, I'm not sure we have anyone proven at top end of the table level who can give us what those three used to in the areas of the pitch they operated in.
    We miss Camarasa enormously. We became incredibly dependent on him or Reid playing our football, while the rest of the side ran around and were a nuisance. We've lost both, have replaced them with an "out of sorts" Paterson and wonder why we can't string 3 passes together.

  21. #21

    Re: "a team who doesn’t really want to play".

    Quote Originally Posted by Pedro de la Rosa View Post
    We miss Camarasa enormously. We became incredibly dependent on him or Reid playing our football, while the rest of the side ran around and were a nuisance. We've lost both, have replaced them with an "out of sorts" Paterson and wonder why we can't string 3 passes together.
    Oddly, our passing is better than it was when we were promoted. Not by much, but it is.

  22. #22

    Re: "a team who doesn’t really want to play".

    Quote Originally Posted by Pedro de la Rosa View Post
    We miss Camarasa enormously. We became incredibly dependent on him or Reid playing our football, while the rest of the side ran around and were a nuisance. We've lost both, have replaced them with an "out of sorts" Paterson and wonder why we can't string 3 passes together.
    Hopefully that will improve when Pack is fit. I'd play him sitting in front of the back four as part of a three-man midfield with Bacuna and Ralls getting further forward.

  23. #23

    Re: "a team who doesn’t really want to play".

    Sounded like a load of moaning to me. Funny how he didn't mention the blatant hand ball before their goal. One eyed bollox is all it is.

  24. #24

    Re: "a team who doesn’t really want to play".

    Quote Originally Posted by LeningradCowboy View Post
    Hopefully that will improve when Pack is fit. I'd play him sitting in front of the back four as part of a three-man midfield with Bacuna and Ralls getting further forward.
    Not sure Bacuna can play further forward. Think he's a DM only and a good one based on recent weeks. Would have him as backup to Pack only.

  25. #25

    Re: "a team who doesn’t really want to play".

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee View Post
    Oddly, our passing is better than it was when we were promoted. Not by much, but it is.
    We didn't have the current versions of Paterson or Tomlin in 17/18. Our lack of fitness in front of the midfield 2 is killing us.

  26. #26

    Re: "a team who doesn’t really want to play".

    Quote Originally Posted by simonp_ccfc View Post
    Sounded like a load of moaning to me. Funny how he didn't mention the blatant hand ball before their goal. One eyed bollox is all it is.
    All managers do it.

  27. #27

    Re: "a team who doesn’t really want to play".

    Quote Originally Posted by simonp_ccfc View Post
    Not sure Bacuna can play further forward. Think he's a DM only and a good one based on recent weeks. Would have him as backup to Pack only.
    I meant as a box-to-box midfielder rather than an attacking midfielder. Sorry, I should have made that more clear.

    I agree that Bacuna has played well recently, but both him and Ralls can get caught too high up the pitch when we lose possession in the opposition half, which is why I'd play with Pack sitting in front of the defence.

  28. #28

    Re: "a team who doesn’t really want to play".

    Quote Originally Posted by Pedro de la Rosa View Post
    We didn't have the current versions of Paterson or Tomlin in 17/18. Our lack of fitness in front of the midfield 2 is killing us.
    That attacking midfield position has been a waste of a shirt for us this season. Tomlin doesn't have the engine and using Paterson as battering ram isn't working like it did two years ago.

  29. #29

    Re: "a team who doesn’t really want to play".

    Quote Originally Posted by LeningradCowboy View Post
    That attacking midfield position has been a waste of a shirt for us this season. Tomlin doesn't have the engine and using Paterson as battering ram isn't working like it did two years ago.
    Paterson isn't the same as he was two years ago. He's carrying a knock, he's not fit and he's a bit chunky. Hopefully he's back to his best but he's been a passenger in recent weeks and that's the last thing I thought we'd ever say about him.

  30. #30

    Re: "a team who doesn’t really want to play".

    Quote Originally Posted by Pedro de la Rosa View Post
    Paterson isn't the same as he was two years ago. He's carrying a knock, he's not fit and he's a bit chunky. Hopefully he's back to his best but he's been a passenger in recent weeks and that's the last thing I thought we'd ever say about him.
    I also think that, during our promotion season, he was very much an unknown quantity. I think we bought him as a right back, but I'm not confident in this. Warnock said he'd be a fan's favourite. Even in the Premier League, defenders hadn't really come across anyone as unorthodox as Paterson.

    Now teams are more aware of him, coupled with his lack of fitness, and he's been anonymous all season.

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