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Thread: Thomas Cook

  1. #1

    Thomas Cook

    Apparently had 11% of the passengers coming through Cardiff airport. That will be a huge blow to them

  2. #2

  3. #3

    Re: Thomas Cook

    Sad news today and desperate for so many people.

    As all of the assets will be sold off, therefore would it be reasonable to assume that other companies such as Easyjet or Ryanair will have the opportunity to take their slots at Cardiff airport (and the others)?

  4. #4

    Re: Thomas Cook

    Quote Originally Posted by MacAdder View Post
    Sad news today and desperate for so many people.

    As all of the assets will be sold off, therefore would it be reasonable to assume that other companies such as Easyjet or Ryanair will have the opportunity to take their slots at Cardiff airport (and the others)?
    They'll be able to put their prices up and probably nail down a few airports that a desperate to fill the hole left by TC.

  5. #5

    Re: Thomas Cook

    Here’s an interesting thought: Thomas Cook reportedly asked the Government for £200m to keep them afloat, which was refused.
    Operation Matterhorn, which is the initiative to repatriate UK citizens will allegedly cost the taxpayer around £100m, then there’s the cost to banks for the credit card claims, ABTA claims and all the costs associated with the 9,000 jobs at risk in the UK and other jobs that will doubtless be lost at suppliers etc.
    Would it not have made sense for the Government to have provided some kind of loan (perhaps guaranteed against assets), which would have given them some kind of return. Instead, they’re now probably going to spend upwards of the £200m originally asked for, with no return and a lot of people looking for jobs.
    Compared to the billions provided to the banks in the financial crisis, this would be a drop in the ocean.
    Oh, and they’ve apparently spent £150m on Brexit advertising...

  6. #6

    Re: Thomas Cook

    Quote Originally Posted by The Hooded Claw View Post
    Here’s an interesting thought: Thomas Cook reportedly asked the Government for £200m to keep them afloat, which was refused.
    Operation Matterhorn, which is the initiative to repatriate UK citizens will allegedly cost the taxpayer around £100m, then there’s the cost to banks for the credit card claims, ABTA claims and all the costs associated with the 9,000 jobs at risk in the UK and other jobs that will doubtless be lost at suppliers etc.
    Would it not have made sense for the Government to have provided some kind of loan (perhaps guaranteed against assets), which would have given them some kind of return. Instead, they’re now probably going to spend upwards of the £200m originally asked for, with no return and a lot of people looking for jobs.
    Compared to the billions provided to the banks in the financial crisis, this would be a drop in the ocean.
    Oh, and they’ve apparently spent £150m on Brexit advertising...
    I'm sure I heard that TC were in debt to the tune of 1,600million pounds.

    Their official stance is that it was an unsustainable business model which has been failing for a long time and ploughing money in would have just delayed the inevitable.

    Hard to really argue with the decision.

  7. #7

    Re: Thomas Cook

    Quote Originally Posted by MacAdder View Post
    I'm sure I heard that TC were in debt to the tune of 1,600million pounds.

    Their official stance is that it was an unsustainable business model which has been failing for a long time and ploughing money in would have just delayed the inevitable.

    Hard to really argue with the decision.
    But £200m was the shortfall. They had £900m coming in from their shareholder and other creditors. It’s quite normal to retain sone level of debt in large companies and it’s poor that it’s been allowed to fail.

  8. #8

    Re: Thomas Cook

    Quote Originally Posted by The Hooded Claw View Post
    But £200m was the shortfall. They had £900m coming in from their shareholder and other creditors. It’s quite normal to retain sone level of debt in large companies and it’s poor that it’s been allowed to fail.
    you are right, but where does it end, in 12 months time when it is failing again ( as the business model is out of date, yet we will blame Brexit and the loss of value in the pound ) the government will be 200 mill in the hole and instead of losing that, they will be under pressure to throw more money at it, though i guess it will be saving millions of money per day by not throwing money into the EU pot, so maybe able to afford it

  9. #9

    Re: Thomas Cook

    Quote Originally Posted by MacAdder View Post
    I'm sure I heard that TC were in debt to the tune of 1,600million pounds.

    Their official stance is that it was an unsustainable business model which has been failing for a long time and ploughing money in would have just delayed the inevitable.

    Hard to really argue with the decision.
    They have been going bust for years the tax payer can't keep bailing out these poorly run business, lets use tax payers money wisely to build schools,roads,
    hospital's, social care, and fund policing .

  10. #10

    Re: Thomas Cook

    Quote Originally Posted by blue matt View Post
    you are right, but where does it end, in 12 months time when it is failing again ( as the business model is out of date, yet we will blame Brexit and the loss of value in the pound ) the government will be 200 mill in the hole and instead of losing that, they will be under pressure to throw more money at it, though i guess it will be saving millions of money per day by not throwing money into the EU pot, so maybe able to afford it
    My suggestion hinges on a secured loan, so the Government would have assets to seize in the event of a default and gets its money back if not.
    It’s interesting that the German Government lent money to Condor, the German subsidiary of Thomas Cook Airlines.
    Incidentally, Brexit may not be the only reason that the company went bust, but as with so many other cases, I’d bet that without Brexit, it wouldn’t have gone under just yet.
    It was the same with Woolworths - the financial crisis finished them off.

  11. #11

    Re: Thomas Cook

    Quote Originally Posted by The Hooded Claw View Post
    My suggestion hinges on a secured loan, so the Government would have assets to seize in the event of a default and gets its money back if not.
    It’s interesting that the German Government lent money to Condor, the German subsidiary of Thomas Cook Airlines.
    Incidentally, Brexit may not be the only reason that the company went bust, but as with so many other cases, I’d bet that without Brexit, it wouldn’t have gone under just yet.
    It was the same with Woolworths - the financial crisis finished them off.
    And so it begins. Brexit getting blamed for every bit of bad news, and it hasn’t even kicked in yet. 😁
    Poor management, greed by the company directors, and a failing business model, are the reasons for its demise.

  12. #12

    Re: Thomas Cook

    Quote Originally Posted by William Treseder View Post
    And so it begins. Brexit getting blamed for every bit of bad news, and it hasn’t even kicked in yet. ��
    Poor management, greed by the company directors, and a failing business model, are the reasons for its demise.
    Yeah, I don't think brexit has much to do with this one.

  13. #13

    Re: Thomas Cook

    Quote Originally Posted by blue matt View Post
    i guess it will be saving millions of money per day by not throwing money into the EU pot, so maybe able to afford it
    Norway and Switzerland both throw money into the EU pot for a trade deal. I guess that's because it makes lots of money for their economies, but what would they know? They're only two of the richest countries in Europe.....

  14. #14

    Re: Thomas Cook

    Quote Originally Posted by The Hooded Claw View Post
    My suggestion hinges on a secured loan, so the Government would have assets to seize in the event of a default and gets its money back if not.
    It’s interesting that the German Government lent money to Condor, the German subsidiary of Thomas Cook Airlines.
    Incidentally, Brexit may not be the only reason that the company went bust, but as with so many other cases, I’d bet that without Brexit, it wouldn’t have gone under just yet.
    It was the same with Woolworths - the financial crisis finished them off.
    Woolworths went bust because It was a bad business. The financial crisis just exposed that fact. You’ve seen the scale of high street shop closures over the last (stable) decade- are you honestly saying that Woolworths would still be with us!?

    Admittedly not all travel agents are the same but I’ve had exactly two holidays with travel agents in my adult life. Both have been terrible experiences ending up with s75 claims. I cannot see what place they have in the modern world, especially with the cost base that Thomas cook will have had. Sad for everyone involved of course, but their model was desperately out of date and irrelevant.

  15. #15

    Re: Thomas Cook

    Don’t think I’ve booked anything with them for 20 years or more. Hopefully we will see a decent airline come in to Cardiff Airport now rather than the same old guff....

  16. #16

    Re: Thomas Cook

    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post
    Yeah, I don't think brexit has much to do with this one.
    The company itself making the suggestion that the threat of Brexit has caused people to be careful with their spending obviously is nonsense.

  17. #17

    Re: Thomas Cook

    Thomas Cook clearly had strategy issues, but consumer confidence has fallen and areas of relatively large, discretionary spend are often the first to be impacted by this. The travel industry is very susceptible.

  18. #18

    Re: Thomas Cook

    Quote Originally Posted by William Treseder View Post
    And so it begins. Brexit getting blamed for every bit of bad news, and it hasn’t even kicked in yet. 😁
    Poor management, greed by the company directors, and a failing business model, are the reasons for its demise.
    I don’t think you can blame Brexit for this one

    But to say Brexit hasn’t “kicked in” yet is about as disingenuous as you can get.

  19. #19

    Re: Thomas Cook

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee View Post
    The company itself making the suggestion that the threat of Brexit has caused people to be careful with their spending obviously is nonsense.
    You are getting so paranoid about brexit that it seems to be self consuming. I always thought you came across as an intelligent poster on here, but the fact you opened up a rugby thread earlier in the week, that clearly stated not to bother, if you didn’t like the game, just to tell us once again (Zzzzzzzz), that you wouldn’t waste a second of your time watching it, seems to have dispelled that thought.

  20. #20

    Re: Thomas Cook

    Of course it hasn’t kicked in yet. We’ve not even left yet. We.may not even leave? We may leave with a deal?
    Its all speculation at the moment, but the CCMB’ remain chariot is racing ahead full pelt with the likes of you and Eric the half Bee sat up front whipping the horses into a frenzy.

  21. #21

    Re: Thomas Cook

    Quote Originally Posted by William Treseder View Post
    Of course it hasn’t kicked in yet. We’ve not even left yet. We.may not even leave? We may leave with a deal?
    Its all speculation at the moment, but the CCMB’ remain chariot is racing ahead full pelt with the likes of you and Eric the half Bee sat up front whipping the horses into a frenzy.
    It has had a massive effect on a lot of businesses already.
    The value of the £ has been significantly effected, which must have an impact on the numbers of people going on holiday.

    Also many businesses have had to make very costly contingency plans in case there is a no deal Brexit. We are holding significant levels of stock in many countries in case there are big delays with customs, which is seen as a real possibility. That comes at a cost.

  22. #22

    Re: Thomas Cook

    Quote Originally Posted by Optimistic Nick View Post
    Woolworths went bust because It was a bad business. The financial crisis just exposed that fact. You’ve seen the scale of high street shop closures over the last (stable) decade- are you honestly saying that Woolworths would still be with us!?

    Admittedly not all travel agents are the same but I’ve had exactly two holidays with travel agents in my adult life. Both have been terrible experiences ending up with s75 claims. I cannot see what place they have in the modern world, especially with the cost base that Thomas cook will have had. Sad for everyone involved of course, but their model was desperately out of date and irrelevant.
    I’m saying that the financial crisis tipped Woolworths over and the same for Thomas Cook and Brexit.
    Anyone who thinks Brexit has not played a part in this needs to get their head out of the sand.
    There are a lot of big companies out there who are going to suffer for the same reasons - consumer uncertainty, poor exchange rates and confidence in British businesses.
    Losing 9,000+ jobs is hardly going to help our fragile economy, which itself is already under pressure because of Brexit.
    Last edited by The Hooded Claw; 24-09-19 at 09:33. Reason: Punctuation

  23. #23

    Re: Thomas Cook

    Quote Originally Posted by William Treseder View Post
    Of course it hasn’t kicked in yet. We’ve not even left yet. We.may not even leave? We may leave with a deal?
    Its all speculation at the moment, but the CCMB’ remain chariot is racing ahead full pelt with the likes of you and Eric the half Bee sat up front whipping the horses into a frenzy.


    That's definitely not true. Do a search for Des Parrot's posts on here, for a start, to see what businesses have had to do already.

    The truth is people are suffering already. Thomas Cook, I think, could blame the drop in sterling but not much more. Others have already had major problems. Brexit doesn't just start the day we leave. Companies have to plan.

  24. #24

    Re: Thomas Cook

    Quote Originally Posted by William Treseder View Post
    Of course it hasn’t kicked in yet. We’ve not even left yet. We.may not even leave? We may leave with a deal?
    Its all speculation at the moment, but the CCMB’ remain chariot is racing ahead full pelt with the likes of you and Eric the half Bee sat up front whipping the horses into a frenzy.
    It isn’t speculation at all though, there have been loads of jobs lost, money lost and business closed due to Brexit.

    It isn’t even predicted, it has literally happened and you could see if you could open your eyes.

    Even if we didn’t end up leaving now it has already had a startling affect that not leaving wouldn’t change.

  25. #25

    Re: Thomas Cook

    Quote Originally Posted by William Treseder View Post
    Of course it hasn’t kicked in yet. We’ve not even left yet. We.may not even leave? We may leave with a deal?
    Come on you can't really have your head this far in the sand can you?

    https://metro.co.uk/2019/09/23/compa...exit-10795029/ - and this is just the tip of the ice berg.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2...anies-tracker/

  26. #26

    Re: Thomas Cook

    Quote Originally Posted by Croesy Blue View Post
    Come on you can't really have your head this far in the sand can you?

    https://metro.co.uk/2019/09/23/compa...exit-10795029/ - and this is just the tip of the ice berg.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2...anies-tracker/
    A lot of that is just conjecture for now. After today’s Supreme Court ruling, we not even leave.

  27. #27

    Re: Thomas Cook

    None of that is conjecture, how can something be conjecture if it’s happened?

  28. #28

    Re: Thomas Cook

    Quote Originally Posted by The Hooded Claw View Post
    I’m saying that the financial crisis tipped Woolworths over and the same for Thomas Cook and Brexit.
    Anyone who thinks Brexit has not played a part in this needs to get their head out of the sand.
    There are a lot of big companies out there who are going to suffer for the same reasons - consumer uncertainty, poor exchange rates and confidence in British businesses.
    Losing 9,000+ jobs is hardly going to help our fragile economy, which itself is already under pressure because of Brexit.
    I don't think we are disagreeing as regards Woolworths. But that doesn't mean that the financial crisis was to blame for the inevitable failure of that company.

    And I don't think that Brexit is to blame for the mess Thomas Cook is in. It was a bricks and mortar travel agent ffs, wedded to the high street travel agent model in a world moving quickly towards online, in the same way that Kodak was wedded to film in a world adopting digital photography. Brexit would likely have had some impact on short-term cashflow as people put off booking holidays, but they must have had one foot over the edge of the cliff already for this to have happened. What got them to the cliff was an antiquated businesss model and a mountain of debt.

    That the loss of 9k jobs is unhelpful for the economy is undeniably true but entirely irrelevant to the point you are making (i.e. that Brexit is to blame).

    One point on "Brexit has not happened yet" that others have made: it hasn't, but businesses are doing lots in preparation and it creates huge uncertainty. Just look at Thomas Cook - a tiny example of some of the detail tehy will have had to consider: You buy a package holiday to France for summer 2020. In pricing the package, what APD cost do you think they build in for the flight back from France? Because they won't know what APD they will actually have to pay over at the point the flight departs, as it will depend on whether the UK is in the EU or not; whether it has a transitional agreement or not etc etc.

  29. #29

    Re: Thomas Cook

    Welsh government have spent 10 million on a warehouse in West Wales to stockpile supplies and have been meeting regularly here and in Westminster planning for a no deal?

  30. #30

    Re: Thomas Cook

    Quote Originally Posted by William Treseder View Post
    A lot of that is just conjecture for now. After today’s Supreme Court ruling, we not even leave.
    Come on mate I know you aren't stupid, this stuff has already happened.

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