Thomas Cook

[Des Parrot]

Watch out for a negative Jaguar Landrover announcement today.

[lardy]

It may appear to you that that is what I’m saying, but actually what I’m saying is that the EU is like the worse kind of loan shark out there.
Come and tie yourself up in knots with us, doesn’t matter if your up to your balls in debt, and it will be all candy floss and marshmallows.
That is until the day you actually have the audacity to want to leave!!

No one is forcing companies to work inside the EU. They do it because it's cheaper, it's convenient, it opens up a huge market.

It's a piece of piss to leave the EU. The problem is doing it without crashing the economy because so many businesses have prospered under it. They don't have a gun to our head, we could leave any time. Thankfully most MPs know that a no deal would be catastrophic.

[WJ99mobile]

Watch out for a negative Jaguar Landrover announcement today.

The next bubble is in the car sector surely. So many cheap lease deals

[rudy gestede]

The next bubble is in the car sector surely. So many cheap lease deals

Yeah mate it’s the cheap lease deals killing the car manufacturers in this country

[The Hooded Claw]

Nope, I disagree and I think you are completely wrong.

I think you over-estimate the ability of management teams who proved to be failures; the drag that massive (rising) rental costs have on retailers with declining revenues; and the weight that a massive debt puts on a company's balance sheet.

There will always be a straw that breaks the camel's back but that doesn't add any credence to the argument that Brexit caused an outdated, poorly run travel agent to go bust because it simply didn't. I think you are suggesting that people held off booking foreign holidays; and/or fewer foreign holidays were booked, because of the devaluation of Sterling and/or tightening of discretionary spend by UK consumers in light of general Brexit uncertainty. That may have some impact on immediate cashflow and possibly turnover, but other companies I can think of are significantly increasing their package holiday offering so clearly there is confidence out there that Brits still want and will pay for their foreign trips, it's just that they don't want to do that with Thomas Cook any more. When you last thought of booking a flight or a holiday, did you think to yourself "I'd better pop into town to speak to Thomas Cook"? And even if you did, what do you think that the 18-30 year olds do when they want to book a holiday?

There is a place for travel agents, but mid-market is not it. It's not fair to blame Brexit for this one.

It’s been widely reported that market uncertainty has had a significant effect on Thomas Cook due to Brexit.
It’s also well know that currency devaluation has played a large part in their problems, again due to Brexit.
I totally agree that Thomas Cook were still relying on an outdated business model, but the I believe spending the £200m was a risk worth taking to buy the company some time to reorganise itself, maybe by selling off the airline.
The difference between them and TUI is that they were more reliant on the UK market, which is exposed... because of Brexit.

[rudy gestede]

No one is forcing companies to work inside the EU. They do it because it's cheaper, it's convenient, it opens up a huge market.

It's a piece of piss to leave the EU. The problem is doing it without crashing the economy because so many businesses have prospered under it. They don't have a gun to our head, we could leave any time. Thankfully most MPs know that a no deal would be catastrophic.

Is he going to sleep on it before trying to find another weird negative point tonight?

The cult of Brexit has really got hold of him.

[Optimistic Nick]

It’s been widely reported that market uncertainty has had a significant effect on Thomas Cook due to Brexit.
It’s also well know that currency devaluation has played a large part in their problems, again due to Brexit.
I totally agree that Thomas Cook were still relying on an outdated business model, but the I believe spending the £200m was a risk worth taking to buy the company some time to reorganise itself, maybe by selling off the airline.
The difference between them and TUI is that they were more reliant on the UK market, which is exposed... because of Brexit.

There are far greater differences between the two than just markets. TUI has changed quite a bit to differentiate itself by essentially taking over hotels to generate brand loyalty (eg Holiday Village). Which was good management. TUI also has a lot less debt.

And your two arguments don't really hang together anyway ( being i) Brexit caused the failure; and ii) Govt should have stumped up £200m to tide them over until they sort out their business model). Brexit isn't going away so if that's a significant reason for failure why would giving them time to sort out their business model help?

[Maurice Swan]

Government not allowed to bail out companies like TC, EU RULES........

Now if we were not in the EU we could do what we wanted......

[rudy gestede]

Government not allowed to bail out companies like TC, EU RULES........

Now if we were not in the EU we could do what we wanted......

How come Germany just bailed out Condor then?

[lardy]

Government not allowed to bail out companies like TC, EU RULES........

Now if we were not in the EU we could do what we wanted......

The government = tax payers money.

EU rules or not, that's not what taxes are paid for.

[Croesy Blue]

Government not allowed to bail out companies like TC, EU RULES........

Now if we were not in the EU we could do what we wanted......

That's not true

[Maurice Swan]

Yes it is.....the fact that other countries choose to sometimes ignore the EU rules is another matter.

[Croesy Blue]

Yes it is.....the fact that other countries choose to sometimes ignore the EU rules is another matter.

Link us to this rule then.

How come we bailed RBS out?

[Maurice Swan]

Well...you can read:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stat...uropean_Union)
and
https://www.pinsentmasons.com/out-la...n-to-state-aid

As for RBS......ask Mr Blair.....

[rudy gestede]

Well...you can read:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stat...uropean_Union)
and
https://www.pinsentmasons.com/out-la...n-to-state-aid

As for RBS......ask Mr Blair.....

But they don’t apply to Thomas cook?

Brown was in office for the bailout so not sure what Blair has to do with it.

[Maurice Swan]

No they don't......and Blair. Brown...both of the same mould.

[Croesy Blue]

I'm starting to think you aren't a reliable or neutral source

[Maurice Swan]

I am just stating facts.

[rudy gestede]

I am just stating facts.

You aren’t though

[Maurice Swan]

Yes I am...just READ the links fully. If you think I am wrong, tell me on what basis...ie links that say individual countries CAN bail out companies.,f

[Maurice Swan]

they don't

[Rjk]

Yes I am...just READ the links fully. If you think I am wrong, tell me on what basis...ie links that say individual countries CAN bail out companies.,f

You are wrong - the rules on state aid are usually used to stop states conferring an advantage to for example a manufacturer based in their borders at the detriment of competition to other manufacturers i.e. if we offered a subsidy on all cars made in the UK but not elsewhere in Europe.
Offering a secured loan to help an ailing business through a cashflow crisis wouldn't fall into the same category.

[rudy gestede]

You are wrong - the rules on state aid are usually used to stop states conferring an advantage to for example a manufacturer based in their borders at the detriment of competition to other manufacturers i.e. if we offered a subsidy on all cars made in the UK but not elsewhere in Europe.
Offering a secured loan to help an ailing business through a cashflow crisis wouldn't fall into the same category.

Exactly

[Maurice Swan]

See also: https://www.bbc.com/news/business-49781920
and
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/b...-a9116536.html (if you wish to subscribe)

[Rjk]

See also: https://www.bbc.com/news/business-49781920
and
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/b...-a9116536.html (if you wish to subscribe)

The "after many years of EU governments rescuing sensitive industries" line should give you a clue.
They absolutely could have done it if they had wanted to, there have been many precidents, but the UK and especially this government is very beholden to the idea of the efficiency of the market and favours letting things run their course.