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Thread: What leave voters voted for?

  1. #151

    Re: What leave voters voted for?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    Who will LOM blame if nobody votes for it?
    I think highly paid academics are his latest target so could be them I suppose.

  2. #152

    Re: What leave voters voted for?

    Quote Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays View Post
    I think highly paid academics are his latest target so could be them I suppose.
    Dont worry we will still be voting this or any deal down for the next decade , just to keep yer all happy, as we continue to remain in a political life of limbo ,great project .

    No real opposition = no power .

  3. #153

    Re: What leave voters voted for?

    Whoever wins in the end, the whole thing has proved one thing. If we'd previously believed that democracy was here to stay, we were wrong.
    Maybe we'll recover and embrace the idea in the future, but for now it's a thing of the past. This being so, there's not much point in anyone continuing to discuss the matter or , actually, continuing to vote or acknowledge parliament.

    This matter has set a precedent and in future no losing party or group will accept a vote as the final word in anything, but rather the starting flag for a campaign to reverse the outcome by fair means or foul. Whoever wins at the ballot box won't be able to govern or do anything but fight a counter campaign throughout its term of office, and no progress or effective administration will be possible.

    The outcome of this would eventually be a failure of law and government ,probably followed by a chaotic period of disorder or worse, and it's looking increasingly as if this is the path we're on.

  4. #154

    Re: What leave voters voted for?

    Quote Originally Posted by RonnieBird View Post
    Whoever wins in the end, the whole thing has proved one thing. If we'd previously believed that democracy was here to stay, we were wrong.
    Maybe we'll recover and embrace the idea in the future, but for now it's a thing of the past. This being so, there's not much point in anyone continuing to discuss the matter or , actually, continuing to vote or acknowledge parliament.

    This matter has set a precedent and in future no losing party or group will accept a vote as the final word in anything, but rather the starting flag for a campaign to reverse the outcome by fair means or foul. Whoever wins at the ballot box won't be able to govern or do anything but fight a counter campaign throughout its term of office, and no progress or effective administration will be possible.

    The outcome of this would eventually be a failure of law and government ,probably followed by a chaotic period of disorder or worse, and it's looking increasingly as if this is the path we're on.
    Brexit can still happen, any old deal would pass parliament if they endeavour to ask the country whether they actually want the reality of brexit before actioning that.

    Hindsight tells us a 52/48 type result should have led to a compromise which involved either a staged approach to leaving (initially a softer brexit) with further votes to determine next steps. Or if the 52/48 was remains way there should be a commitment to another ref in X years. Unfortunately both sides are so entrenched now that none of this is possible and the responsibility for that falls on the people who plotted our course, ultimately Cameron, May and subsequently Cummings and his nodding dog.

  5. #155

    Re: What leave voters voted for?

    This is actually fantastic, after years of brexiteers telling us a stiff upper lip will get the EU to climb down. The result is that we climb down and take something we were offered at the very start. I am not going to trawl back through posts but I know a few in here fall into that category.

  6. #156

    Re: What leave voters voted for?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    This is actually fantastic, after years of brexiteers telling us a stiff upper lip will get the EU to climb down. The result is that we climb down and take something we were offered at the very start. I am not going to trawl back through posts but I know a few in here fall into that category.
    Quite right, they're so shit scared of another Referendum they're grabbing any old raft to get to shore.

  7. #157

    Re: What leave voters voted for?

    Quote Originally Posted by RonnieBird View Post
    Whoever wins in the end, the whole thing has proved one thing. If we'd previously believed that democracy was here to stay, we were wrong.
    Maybe we'll recover and embrace the idea in the future, but for now it's a thing of the past. This being so, there's not much point in anyone continuing to discuss the matter or , actually, continuing to vote or acknowledge parliament.

    This matter has set a precedent and in future no losing party or group will accept a vote as the final word in anything, but rather the starting flag for a campaign to reverse the outcome by fair means or foul. Whoever wins at the ballot box won't be able to govern or do anything but fight a counter campaign throughout its term of office, and no progress or effective administration will be possible.

    The outcome of this would eventually be a failure of law and government ,probably followed by a chaotic period of disorder or worse, and it's looking increasingly as if this is the path we're on.
    You are so right , lets be fair the forces to reverse the vote of the people was greater . . Can we now reverse every strike vote that hurts the people getting about their business and life .

  8. #158

    Re: What leave voters voted for?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    Brexit can still happen, any old deal would pass parliament if they endeavour to ask the country whether they actually want the reality of brexit before actioning that.

    Hindsight tells us a 52/48 type result should have led to a compromise which involved either a staged approach to leaving (initially a softer brexit) with further votes to determine next steps. Or if the 52/48 was remains way there should be a commitment to another ref in X years. Unfortunately both sides are so entrenched now that none of this is possible and the responsibility for that falls on the people who plotted our course, ultimately Cameron, May and subsequently Cummings and his nodding dog.
    This one got through





    Choice Votes %
    I agree that there should be a Welsh Assembly 559,419 50.30%
    I do not agree that there should be a Welsh Assembly 552,698 49.70
    Valid votes 1,112,117 99.64%
    Invalid or blank votes 3,999 0.36%

  9. #159

    Re: What leave voters voted for?

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    This one got through





    Choice Votes %
    I agree that there should be a Welsh Assembly 559,419 50.30%
    I do not agree that there should be a Welsh Assembly 552,698 49.70
    Valid votes 1,112,117 99.64%
    Invalid or blank votes 3,999 0.36%
    Is the Welsh assembly the most extreme example of devolved power?

  10. #160

    Re: What leave voters voted for?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    Is the Welsh assembly the most extreme example of devolved power?
    Not really , just pointing out the closeness of the vote .

  11. #161

    Re: What leave voters voted for?


  12. #162

    Re: What leave voters voted for?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    Another example of Johnsonís bullshit.

    How on Earth are so many taken in by this utter ****ing fraud?

  13. #163

    Re: What leave voters voted for?

    Quote Originally Posted by CardiffIrish2 View Post
    Another example of Johnsonís bullshit.

    How on Earth are so many taken in by this utter ****ing fraud?
    Because just about all of them have playdough for brains

  14. #164

    Re: What leave voters voted for?

    The DUP have thrown a spanner on the works.

    If thereís one positive from this farce the whole world and hopefully the Unionist community in Northern Ireland are seeing is that they are colossal arseholes.

  15. #165
    International jon1959's Avatar
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    Re: What leave voters voted for?

    Have the DUP surrendered?

  16. #166
    International jon1959's Avatar
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    Re: What leave voters voted for?


  17. #167

    Re: What leave voters voted for?

    Well done Louise Ellman, who after 55 years as a member has resigned from Labour in protest about their anti semitism.
    It is a brave thing to do, knowing that it's possible that they might gain or seize power at some point and start physical persecution of individual Jews.
    No doubt the politburo here will still deny that anti semitism exists , slap each other on the back and carry on their march towards a new soviet paradise but it would be hard for any sane and objective person to ignore this resignation as a significant thing

  18. #168

    Re: What leave voters voted for?

    Quote Originally Posted by RonnieBird View Post
    Well done Louise Ellman, who after 55 years as a member has resigned from Labour in protest about their anti semitism.
    It is a brave thing to do, knowing that it's possible that they might gain or seize power at some point and start physical persecution of individual Jews.
    No doubt the politburo here will still deny that anti semitism exists , slap each other on the back and carry on their march towards a new soviet paradise but it would be hard for any sane and objective person to ignore this resignation as a significant thing
    I know you've probably heard it many times before, but you really are a massive bell end.

  19. #169
    International jon1959's Avatar
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    Re: What leave voters voted for?

    Quote Originally Posted by RonnieBird View Post
    Well done Louise Ellman, who after 55 years as a member has resigned from Labour in protest about their anti semitism.
    It is a brave thing to do, knowing that it's possible that they might gain or seize power at some point and start physical persecution of individual Jews.
    No doubt the politburo here will still deny that anti semitism exists , slap each other on the back and carry on their march towards a new soviet paradise but it would be hard for any sane and objective person to ignore this resignation as a significant thing
    Given the timing of this I can only assume it was the motion of no confidence in her from her CLP that prompted her to resign. That and the prospect of a general election where there is an outside chance of a Corbyn-led government that is committed to Palestinian rights and not afraid to stand up to Israel.

    Louise Ellman (like Joan Ryan and others before her) has dedicated her political life to promoting and defending Israel against all opposition. She was a teenage Zionist in Habonim, spent a year in Israel after university, was chair of the Jewish Labour Movement from 2006-16, vice chair of the Labour Friends Of Israel (and chair this year after Joan Ryan defected) and chair of the All-Party Britain-Israel Parliamentary Group.

    The Times of Israel called her "tough-as-nails" and "an unabashed friend of Israel".[19] According to one biographer in the Jewish Chronicle, "Ellman can always be called on to defend Israel on the green benches" (i.e. in Parliament).[20] The Jewish Telegraph said "Doughty Labour MP Louise Ellman is never scared to openly proclaim her Jewish identity and fight for Israel and against Islamic extremism at every Parliamentary opportunity."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louise_Ellman

    She was an apologist for Israeli apartheid and war crimes.

    She was elected again as an MP for the Corbyn-led Labour Party in 2017. Having abandoned her party and party workers, and shown contempt for the voters who put her back in Parliament is she going to resign and trigger a by-election? Of course not. Like all the other unprincipled defectors (Labour and Tory) this year she is going to carry on misrepresenting her constituency, accepting her pay, and doing 'media darling' tours of the papers and broadcasters to present herself as a victim - and doing the most damage she can to her former party and leader.

    So yes, the resignation is significant and almost certainly bad for Labour, but it is cynical not brave, and a move that will bring joy to No 10, the Mail and Telegraph, and the Israeli embassy.

  20. #170

    Re: What leave voters voted for?

    Quote Originally Posted by jon1959 View Post
    Given the timing of this I can only assume it was the motion of no confidence in her from her CLP that prompted her to resign. That and the prospect of a general election where there is an outside chance of a Corbyn-led government that is committed to Palestinian rights and not afraid to stand up to Israel.

    Louise Ellman (like Joan Ryan and others before her) has dedicated her political life to promoting and defending Israel against all opposition. She was a teenage Zionist in Habonim, spent a year in Israel after university, was chair of the Jewish Labour Movement from 2006-16, vice chair of the Labour Friends Of Israel (and chair this year after Joan Ryan defected) and chair of the All-Party Britain-Israel Parliamentary Group.

    The Times of Israel called her "tough-as-nails" and "an unabashed friend of Israel".[19] According to one biographer in the Jewish Chronicle, "Ellman can always be called on to defend Israel on the green benches" (i.e. in Parliament).[20] The Jewish Telegraph said "Doughty Labour MP Louise Ellman is never scared to openly proclaim her Jewish identity and fight for Israel and against Islamic extremism at every Parliamentary opportunity."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louise_Ellman

    She was an apologist for Israeli apartheid and war crimes.

    She was elected again as an MP for the Corbyn-led Labour Party in 2017. Having abandoned her party and party workers, and shown contempt for the voters who put her back in Parliament is she going to resign and trigger a by-election? Of course not. Like all the other unprincipled defectors (Labour and Tory) this year she is going to carry on misrepresenting her constituency, accepting her pay, and doing 'media darling' tours of the papers and broadcasters to present herself as a victim - and doing the most damage she can to her former party and leader.

    So yes, the resignation is significant and almost certainly bad for Labour, but it is cynical not brave, and a move that will bring joy to No 10, the Mail and Telegraph, and the Israeli embassy.
    Why did the CLP have no confidence in her?

  21. #171

    Re: What leave voters voted for?

    Quote Originally Posted by RonnieBird View Post
    Well done Louise Ellman, who after 55 years as a member has resigned from Labour in protest about their anti semitism.
    It is a brave thing to do, knowing that it's possible that they might gain or seize power at some point and start physical persecution of individual Jews.
    No doubt the politburo here will still deny that anti semitism exists , slap each other on the back and carry on their march towards a new soviet paradise but it would be hard for any sane and objective person to ignore this resignation as a significant thing
    I don't think you should be throwing around words like "sane" and "objective" when you've just posted about a possible Labour Party-led Holocaust 2.0.

  22. #172

    Re: What leave voters voted for?

    So, Louise Ellman should be ignored because she's "defended Israel", ( I mean that's not anti Semitic is it?), and anyone who express opposition to the growing open anti semitism by socialists is a nut case !
    If they'd had message boards in pre war Germany, I expect these are just the sort of comments which would have been put on them .

  23. #173

    Re: What leave voters voted for?

    Quote Originally Posted by RonnieBird View Post
    So, Louise Ellman should be ignored because she's "defended Israel", ( I mean that's not anti Semitic is it?), and anyone who express opposition to the growing open anti semitism by socialists is a nut case !
    If they'd had message boards in pre war Germany, I expect these are just the sort of comments which would have been put on them .
    There you go again. Can you provide some examples of the "open anti semitism by socialists" from the Labour party, please? I'm gonna need some quotes on this as so far it's been hearsay. I'm not arrogant enough to think there's no anti-semites within the Labour party - just as there will be in the Conservative party, UKIP, Brexit party etc.

    Are you only concerned about anti-semitism or do you feel that racism and bigotry in all forms is wrong? The Prime Minister of the UK and leader of the Conservative party has made numerous anti-Islamic comments - does that mean we can expect the "physical persecution" of individual Muslims any day now - or is it more the case of the fact that you're so opposed to Socialism that you've convinced yourself of something that a "sane" and "objective" person wouldn't believe.

  24. #174

    Re: What leave voters voted for?

    Quote Originally Posted by RonnieBird View Post
    So, Louise Ellman should be ignored because she's "defended Israel", ( I mean that's not anti Semitic is it?), and anyone who express opposition to the growing open anti semitism by socialists is a nut case !
    If they'd had message boards in pre war Germany, I expect these are just the sort of comments which would have been put on them .
    Are you on your period? Stop being so dramatic.

  25. #175

    Re: What leave voters voted for?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    Are you on your period? Stop being so dramatic.
    Bet you he was a prosecutor when he was a high powered lawyer . Probably a bit too young for the McCarthy era though.

  26. #176

    Re: What leave voters voted for?

    The question to answer : does Labour harbour anti antisemitism behaviors if so why,and why now ????????

    Yes or no will do

  27. #177

    Re: What leave voters voted for?

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    The question to answer : does Labour harbour anti antisemitism behaviors if so why,and why now ????????

    Yes or no will do
    Why? Yes
    Why now? No

    Hope that helps.

  28. #178

    Re: What leave voters voted for?

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
    Why? Yes
    Why now? No

    Hope that helps.


    Just because it was an open goal there was no need to break the back of the net!

  29. #179

    Re: What leave voters voted for?

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
    There you go again. Can you provide some examples of the "open anti semitism by socialists" from the Labour party, please? I'm gonna need some quotes on this as so far it's been hearsay. I'm not arrogant enough to think there's no anti-semites within the Labour party - just as there will be in the Conservative party, UKIP, Brexit party etc.

    Are you only concerned about anti-semitism or do you feel that racism and bigotry in all forms is wrong? The Prime Minister of the UK and leader of the Conservative party has made numerous anti-Islamic comments - does that mean we can expect the "physical persecution" of individual Muslims any day now - or is it more the case of the fact that you're so opposed to Socialism that you've convinced yourself of something that a "sane" and "objective" person wouldn't believe.

    I've got no loyalty to any political party so trying to compare BoJo's jokes about pillar boxes with the hollocaust is a bit wasted on me.
    Since you ask, I'm more concerned about anti semitism than most other forms of racism for the simple reason that it's the only one backed by a political party and the only one which can so easily ramp up to genocide, as it has before.

    Btw, it's ALL hearsay unless someone here personally witnessed it. I'm not gong to start listing examples because there's a whole investigation you can read, including the statements of victims and quotes from Mr Corbyn and others.

  30. #180

    Re: What leave voters voted for?

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    Bet you he was a prosecutor when he was a high powered lawyer . Probably a bit too young for the McCarthy era though.
    Very rarely prosecuted since you ask. There's no money in it you see, and these days it's done by the CPS anyway.

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