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Thread: What leave voters voted for?

  1. #301

    Re: What leave voters voted for?

    I see the EU have allowed an extension until 31 January - seems they won't agree to any renegotiation of the Withdrawal agreement as well.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-50205603

  2. #302

    Re: What leave voters voted for?

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    I see the EU have allowed an extension until 31 January - seems they won't agree to any renegotiation of the Withdrawal agreement as well.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-50205603
    Feeling of Deja Vu there.

    They said they wouldn't renegotiate when they granted the October 31st as well

  3. #303

    Re: What leave voters voted for?

    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post
    Throughout the campaign, the leave groups from Faridge downwards talked about Norway, Canada ++, etc - what kind of deal we would have with the EU when we left. So this suggestion that people voted no deal is preposterous, just outright wrong.

    But let's park that.

    Say we do have a no deal brexit. What happens in the future? Will there never be an arrangement with the EU? WTO forever?
    Norway, Canada ++ etc, the public did not vote for any of those abstract things, none of them things was on the ballot paper, the ballot paper said ''Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?, all the leave voters I know, wanted out, plain and simple just like the question asked, none of them wanted out with a deal.

  4. #304

    Re: What leave voters voted for?

    Quote Originally Posted by trampie09 View Post
    Norway, Canada ++ etc, the public did not vote for any of those abstract things, none of them things was on the ballot paper, the ballot paper said ''Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?, all the leave voters I know, wanted out, plain and simple just like the question asked, none of them wanted out with a deal.
    A very strange argument to make - this and that weren't on the ballot paper, but my one was what people really wanted.

    The simple truth, which you can't escape, is that the things I mentioned (and more) were used as arguments for Leave, while no deal was not.

  5. #305

    Re: What leave voters voted for?

    Quote Originally Posted by trampie09 View Post
    Norway, Canada ++ etc, the public did not vote for any of those abstract things, none of them things was on the ballot paper, the ballot paper said ''Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?, all the leave voters I know, wanted out, plain and simple just like the question asked, none of them wanted out with a deal.
    Out of the European Union?

  6. #306

    Re: What leave voters voted for?

    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post
    A very strange argument to make - this and that weren't on the ballot paper, but my one was what people really wanted.

    The simple truth, which you can't escape, is that the things I mentioned (and more) were used as arguments for Leave, while no deal was not.
    What people really wanted at the time was out with no deal, most ordinary people are not particularly interested in politics and what some politician they may or may not have heard of saying something on some late night politics show, they just wanted out.

  7. #307

    Re: What leave voters voted for?

    Quote Originally Posted by trampie09 View Post
    What people really wanted at the time was out with no deal, most ordinary people are not particularly interested in politics and what some politician they may or may not have heard of saying something on some late night politics show, they just wanted out.
    Absolute rubbish, I'm afraid.

    "some politician they may or may not have heard of" - like I said, it was the leave campaigns from Nigel downwards.

    "What people really wanted at the time was out with no deal" - no, the discussions were about soft or hard brexit (hard being a deal but outside of the single market).

    Historic Google searches show that 'no deal' was not part of the discussion.


  8. #308

    Re: What leave voters voted for?

    You are talking rubbish lardy, I don't make things up, people I know voted out as in OUT, I doubt if any of them have ever heard of Canada this and Norway that, I couldn't even tell you what Canada this and Norway that is myself [I would have to look it up].

  9. #309

    Re: What leave voters voted for?

    Quote Originally Posted by trampie09 View Post
    You are talking rubbish lardy, I don't make things up, people I know voted out as in OUT, I doubt if any of them have ever heard of Canada this and Norway that, I couldn't even tell you what Canada this and Norway that is myself [I would have to look it up].
    What will you and your mates do if we leave with a deal? I mean, that's not what you all voted for, is it?

  10. #310

    Re: What leave voters voted for?

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
    What will you and your mates do if we leave with a deal? I mean, that's not what you all voted for, is it?
    My mates voted remain, people I know voted leave, people will carry on as normal i would guess, if their circumstances change then they will have to deal with it.
    I have no dog in this Brexit debate, personally i would say leaving with a deal is the worst outcome, remain and things stay the same, leave with no deal and the UK breaks up and then perhaps one day down the track we can get an independent Wales.

  11. #311

    Re: What leave voters voted for?

    Quote Originally Posted by trampie09 View Post
    You are talking rubbish lardy, I don't make things up, people I know voted out as in OUT, I doubt if any of them have ever heard of Canada this and Norway that, I couldn't even tell you what Canada this and Norway that is myself [I would have to look it up].
    All the leave voters I spoke to wanted the Norway deal.

    You think that's irrelevant and changes nothing, don't you? You'd be correct.

    What's not rubbish is that no deal was barely discussed in the campaigns. The evidence is still there; the soundbites and interviews, the articles, the web searches, it all confirms it.

    It's certainly true that there's a large number of people who want no deal now. Chances are that Farridge and his backers wanted no deal along, but if they did they kept it quiet because leave would not have won if that had been the message.

    In fact, the way that they have maneuvered to make it seem that's what people always wanted (The Will Of The People) is a mixture of impressive and scary.

  12. #312

    Re: What leave voters voted for?

    Quote Originally Posted by trampie09 View Post
    My mates voted remain, people I know voted leave, people will carry on as normal i would guess, if their circumstances change then they will have to deal with it.
    I have no dog in this Brexit debate, personally i would say leaving with a deal is the worst outcome, remain and things stay the same, leave with no deal and the UK breaks up and then perhaps one day down the track we can get an independent Wales.
    ...But you've argued incessantly that these people that you know voted to leave without a deal and now you think that they would just carry on as normal if we leave with a deal? Seems odd to me.

    Do all of your points end up being about wanting an independent Wales? It wold be good to know for future reference.

  13. #313

    Re: What leave voters voted for?

    Quote Originally Posted by trampie09 View Post
    Norway, Canada ++ etc, the public did not vote for any of those abstract things, none of them things was on the ballot paper, the ballot paper said ''Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?, all the leave voters I know, wanted out, plain and simple just like the question asked, none of them wanted out with a deal.
    But how many people knew what leaving with or without out a deal really meant? I can't recall many people discussing the detail of the effects of tariffs, the Northern Ireland problem or anything else about the economic ramifications of leaving. You only have to see the vox-pop street interviews on TV to know that there was (and still is) hardly any real understanding of the subject.

  14. #314

    Re: What leave voters voted for?

    Time for another posting of the poll from the summer of 2016 which shows that only 3 or 4 per cent of Leave voters wanted the equivalent of a no deal Brexit methinks.

  15. #315

    Re: What leave voters voted for?

    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post
    All the leave voters I spoke to wanted the Norway deal.

    You think that's irrelevant and changes nothing, don't you? You'd be correct.

    What's not rubbish is that no deal was barely discussed in the campaigns. The evidence is still there; the soundbites and interviews, the articles, the web searches, it all confirms it.

    It's certainly true that there's a large number of people who want no deal now. Chances are that Farridge and his backers wanted no deal along, but if they did they kept it quiet because leave would not have won if that had been the message.

    In fact, the way that they have maneuvered to make it seem that's what people always wanted (The Will Of The People) is a mixture of impressive and scary.
    ''All the leave voters I spoke to wanted the Norway deal'', you say...……...crickey, how many vote leavers do you know ?, what is the Norway deal ?, are there variations of the Norway deal like Norway minus and Norway plus ?

    You are talking Brexit are you ? or are these people you know fans of the 1905 Norway deal ? when they broke away from the United Kingdom and gained Independence [the Sweden - Norway United Kingdom not our one, lol].

  16. #316

    Re: What leave voters voted for?

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
    ...But you've argued incessantly that these people that you know voted to leave without a deal and now you think that they would just carry on as normal if we leave with a deal? Seems odd to me.

    Do all of your points end up being about wanting an independent Wales? It wold be good to know for future reference.
    How do you think they would carry on ?

  17. #317

    Re: What leave voters voted for?

    Quote Originally Posted by trampie09 View Post
    ''All the leave voters I spoke to wanted the Norway deal'', you say...……...crickey, how many vote leavers do you know ?, what is the Norway deal ?, are there variations of the Norway deal like Norway minus and Norway plus ?

    You are talking Brexit are you ? or are these people you know fans of the 1905 Norway deal ? when they broke away from the United Kingdom and gained Independence [the Sweden - Norway United Kingdom not our one, lol].
    Blimey, you appear to have typed all that without irony. You know I was parodying what you've been saying, right?

  18. #318

    Re: What leave voters voted for?

    Quote Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie View Post
    But how many people knew what leaving with or without out a deal really meant? I can't recall many people discussing the detail of the effects of tariffs, the Northern Ireland problem or anything else about the economic ramifications of leaving. You only have to see the vox-pop street interviews on TV to know that there was (and still is) hardly any real understanding of the subject.
    Exactly Taunton Blue Genie, yet all the leavers lardy knows seemingly knew exactly what the effects would be, but they still wanted to leave with something known as the Norway deal - very impressive politicking, all the leavers voters i know, knew jack sh*t about any possible ramifications and had little understanding of the subject.

  19. #319

    Re: What leave voters voted for?

    Quote Originally Posted by trampie09 View Post
    Exactly Taunton Blue Genie, yet all the leavers lardy knows seemingly knew exactly what the effects would be, but they still wanted to leave with something known as the Norway deal - very impressive politicking, all the leavers voters i know, knew jack sh*t about any possible ramifications and had little understanding of the subject.
    I had a couple of pet lemmings who were a bit like your friends...often wonder what happened to them?

    As far as your position is concerned what do you mean by no deal? Is it chuck the Withdrawal Agreement in the bin and break all ties with the EU for ever and a day? Trade on WTO terms, opt out of Open Sky agreements, security and policing, medicinal regulation etc?

    If it is all of these then fair enough. If it is not and you want some kind of working relationship with the EU in the future after the "benefits" of no deal are considered by some to be insufficient. You and your mates could be horrified that for the next few years of our existence (whilst we negotiate super deals with the rest of the world) then we will concurrently going back to the EU from our island redoubt seeking............well a deal!

  20. #320

    Re: What leave voters voted for?

    Quote Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays View Post
    I had a couple of pet lemmings who were a bit like your friends...often wonder what happened to them?

    As far as your position is concerned what do you mean by no deal? Is it chuck the Withdrawal Agreement in the bin and break all ties with the EU for ever and a day? Trade on WTO terms, opt out of Open Sky agreements, security and policing, medicinal regulation etc?

    If it is all of these then fair enough. If it is not and you want some kind of working relationship with the EU in the future after the "benefits" of no deal are considered by some to be insufficient. You and your mates could be horrified that for the next few years of our existence (whilst we negotiate super deals with the rest of the world) then we will concurrently going back to the EU from our island redoubt seeking............well a deal!


    It's just leaving. After that we do or don't sort out deals with Europe. A question of nationalism you see.
    There's no point in you fretting about what deals they do or don't cut, because they certainly will not consult you.
    Politicians will do what suits them best in terms of personal gain, because they're the worst sort of criminals, and all their victims - the electorate- get to decide is the limits we impose on their crookery.
    In this case we insist that they keep it in house and don't forge money making links with foreign politicians or companies.
    This fortune telling about the effects of future events is nothing more than the apparently never ending Project Fear, which is the only argument they have, and which you repeat because you think it makes you look clever to be in agreement with these "clever" people.
    They're only laughing at you though Cyril, and they won't reward you if they win.

  21. #321

    Re: What leave voters voted for?

    No one knows what people voted for. But the question concerned leaving the European Union, last time I checked Norway weren't in the European Union. If May or Johnson wanted to galvanise the country they would have found a compromise that everybody could trust instead of opting for a hard brexit.

    Now we have reached a point where lying is the only strategy worth pursuing. Despite following it more intently than ever I don't think the average Joe has ever been less informed.

  22. #322

    Re: What leave voters voted for?

    Quote Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays View Post
    I had a couple of pet lemmings who were a bit like your friends...often wonder what happened to them?

    As far as your position is concerned what do you mean by no deal? Is it chuck the Withdrawal Agreement in the bin and break all ties with the EU for ever and a day? Trade on WTO terms, opt out of Open Sky agreements, security and policing, medicinal regulation etc?

    If it is all of these then fair enough. If it is not and you want some kind of working relationship with the EU in the future after the "benefits" of no deal are considered by some to be insufficient. You and your mates could be horrified that for the next few years of our existence (whilst we negotiate super deals with the rest of the world) then we will concurrently going back to the EU from our island redoubt seeking............well a deal!
    They just want out, they wanted Porthcawl to do with Johnny Foreigner, headlines after the vote spoke about leave voters being “old, racist and stupid”, its English nationalism, they want the Empire back, they don't want anything to do with countries they had been at war with, rule Britannia and all that.

  23. #323

    Re: What leave voters voted for?

    Quote Originally Posted by trampie09 View Post
    They just want out, they wanted Porthcawl to do with Johnny Foreigner, headlines after the vote spoke about leave voters being “old, racist and stupid”, its English nationalism, they want the Empire back, they don't want anything to do with countries they had been at war with, rule Britannia and all that.
    The first bit was about them. The rest of the questions were to you.

  24. #324

    Re: What leave voters voted for?

    Quote Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays View Post
    The first bit was about them. The rest of the questions were to you.
    I didn't vote leave.

  25. #325

    Re: What leave voters voted for?

    Quote Originally Posted by trampie09 View Post
    Exactly Taunton Blue Genie, yet all the leavers lardy knows seemingly knew exactly what the effects would be, but they still wanted to leave with something known as the Norway deal - very impressive politicking, all the leavers voters i know, knew jack sh*t about any possible ramifications and had little understanding of the subject.
    Good lord, no anti-English sentiment from you in that post.

  26. #326

    Re: What leave voters voted for?

    Quote Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie View Post
    Good lord, no anti-English sentiment from you in that post.
    If the cap fits, cant fault Frank Lampard, Yorkshire pudding, Helen Mirren or Cherie Lunghi.

  27. #327

    Re: What leave voters voted for?

    Helen Mirren is Russian of course

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