This is how Cardiff City should be run

[Lawnmower]

That's illogical. Fans aren't asking for anything radical, just a bit of a philosophy, maybe some method, the odd youngster to progress and a little bit of success in the transfer market. I'd hope that the club are thinking the same way. By your reckoning, nothing would get done as it could get worse. That's ridiculous.

That’s unfair.

Totally.


He’s just pointing out that change isn’t always guaranteed to bring success and it’s not always controllable to the level that many on here seem to think it is.

Those things you ask for are all nice, but compared to some of the other challenges the club has faced in the last 10 years or so they are minor.

There’s going to be a new manager in a few months and I reckon we’ve got a better chance of it being one who’s taking on a successful club by getting behind and supporting the current one than constantly criticising everything he does.

We are still in a decent position despite a start which apparently is a disaster. So no need to panic and deviate from the plan that is in place .

[Tuerto]

That’s unfair.

Totally.


He’s just pointing out that change isn’t always guaranteed to bring success and it’s not always controllable to the level that many on here seem to think it is.

Those things you ask for are all nice, but compared to some of the other challenges the club has faced in the last 10 years or so they are minor.

There’s going to be a new manager in a few months and I reckon we’ve got a better chance of it being one who’s taking on a successful club by getting behind and supporting the current one than constantly criticising everything he does.

We are still in a decent position despite a start which apparently is a disaster. So no need to panic and deviate from the plan that is in place .

I've no idea what the challenges the club has faced over the last ten years has got to do with what i'd like to see happen now-quite confusing. Also, Pearcey doesn't have to point out to me that change isn't guarateed to bring success and you don't have to tell me that it's not always controllable. I know that you probably like this type of football and why not, more power to you. I don't, i think it's shit, although i'm not after total football, i'm not after playing ut from the back, just an element of thought towards our play, because there's bugger all at the moment. I will not support Warnock, i'll support the team, also, i'm not panicking, never have, i don't think this season has been a disaster and i wont deviate from the plan because i've not got a clue what the plan is

[Steve the Tea]

That’s unfair.

Totally.


He’s just pointing out that change isn’t always guaranteed to bring success and it’s not always controllable to the level that many on here seem to think it is.

Those things you ask for are all nice, but compared to some of the other challenges the club has faced in the last 10 years or so they are minor.

There’s going to be a new manager in a few months and I reckon we’ve got a better chance of it being one who’s taking on a successful club by getting behind and supporting the current one than constantly criticising everything he does.

We are still in a decent position despite a start which apparently is a disaster. So no need to panic and deviate from the plan that is in place .

The only problem is that I see no evidence of anyone at the Club who is radical enough to actually want success in the medium term or is willing to plan for it, let alone appointing a manager who strives for excellence. To have a policy and a management system in place (on/off the pitch) that actively desires and plans for a sustainable future; brings its on-field ethos into the 21stC; invests in a fit for purpose Academy structure (Category A) and instigates a coherent scouting and transfer network is a million miles away, sadly whilst the present regime is in place.

True, whilst in Tier 3 & 4 we played dire football, worse than today's diet, but I can't remember such a paucity of ability and system of play (whilst in Tier 1 & 2) during anytime of watching City for these last 60 years.

StT.
<><

[dembethewarrior]

That’s unfair.

Totally.


He’s just pointing out that change isn’t always guaranteed to bring success and it’s not always controllable to the level that many on here seem to think it is.

Those things you ask for are all nice, but compared to some of the other challenges the club has faced in the last 10 years or so they are minor.

There’s going to be a new manager in a few months and I reckon we’ve got a better chance of it being one who’s taking on a successful club by getting behind and supporting the current one than constantly criticising everything he does.

We are still in a decent position despite a start which apparently is a disaster. So no need to panic and deviate from the plan that is in place .

People are looking for a new approach and set up.

Don’t think I’ve seen anyone make out it’ll be “controllable to the level that many on here seem to think it is.”

People will criticise when they don’t see things going how they like, or when they pay good money to follow the club, or give up a good amount of their spare time.

Everyone at the club is in the firing line be it fans or the media, comes with the job.

Criticism doesn’t mean non support either. Why does that one always get trounced out? DML loves that one.

[dembethewarrior]

I've no idea what the challenges the club has faced over the last ten years has got to do with what i'd like to see happen now-quite confusing. Also, Pearcey doesn't have to point out to me that change isn't guarateed to bring success and you don't have to tell me that it's not always controllable. I know that you probably like this type of football and why not, more power to you. I don't, i think it's shit, although i'm not after total football, i'm not after playing ut from the back, just an element of thought towards our play, because there's bugger all at the moment. I will not support Warnock, i'll support the team, also, i'm not panicking, never have, i don't think this season has been a disaster and i wont deviate from the plan because i've not got a clue what the plan is

Well said.

[The Hooded Claw]

I've no idea what the challenges the club has faced over the last ten years has got to do with what i'd like to see happen now-quite confusing. Also, Pearcey doesn't have to point out to me that change isn't guarateed to bring success and you don't have to tell me that it's not always controllable. I know that you probably like this type of football and why not, more power to you. I don't, i think it's shit, although i'm not after total football, i'm not after playing ut from the back, just an element of thought towards our play, because there's bugger all at the moment. I will not support Warnock, i'll support the team, also, i'm not panicking, never have, i don't think this season has been a disaster and i wont deviate from the plan because i've not got a clue what the plan is

You mean there’s a plan? 🤦🏼*♂️

[thehumblegringo]

I keep reading on this this thread about other clubs that have failed etc but if you look at the failings of those clubs it's because they didn't have any sort of plan or vision that they sunk.

You've only got to watch the Netflix documentary to see the amateurism behind Sunderland's demise and there have been similar grave errors at Portsmouth, Bolton and even Stoke.

Swansea were the model club when it came to a small club with a vision who were able to punch far above their weight and achieve good things, but as soon as they departed from that model they demise begun.

Where do we go when the parachute payments expire?

We have to find a more connected way of running our club or we'll end up where we were with Slade and it was only through Neil Warnock's genius at this level in getting every last drop out of his players that gave us a lifeline.

I fear that lifeline is now being wasted and we are tumbling back to where we were. I'm not asking to spend buckets of money, on the contrary I'm asking that our transfer policy becomes far more strategic and we don't employ a scatter gun approach like we're currently doing and signing players like Will Vaulks then discarding them after 2 games!

The only way we can become sustainable is to number one become more savvy in the transfer market by identifying now players that could become available and fit our club ethos even 2 or 3 years down the line and number two creating a pathway where even one or two youngsters have an opportunity to break in the first team.

Surely everyone can see that our club is not in line with how other successful clubs are run in 2019?

Surely everyone can see that our "transfer committee" is not fit for purpose?

Surely everyone can see that the way to successfully run a championship/premier league club is not the same in 2019 as it was in 1992?

If (and surely these things are a given) these things are true, I don't understand the opposition to those of us who'd like to see our club modernise in order to enhance our chances of future success!

[the other bob wilson]

I keep reading on this this thread about other clubs that have failed etc but if you look at the failings of those clubs it's because they didn't have any sort of plan or vision that they sunk.

You've only got to watch the Netflix documentary to see the amateurism behind Sunderland's demise and there have been similar grave errors at Portsmouth, Bolton and even Stoke.

Swansea were the model club when it came to a small club with a vision who were able to punch far above their weight and achieve good things, but as soon as they departed from that model they demise begun.

Where do we go when the parachute payments expire?

We have to find a more connected way of running our club or we'll end up where we were with Slade and it was only through Neil Warnock's genius at this level in getting every last drop out of his players that gave us a lifeline.

I fear that lifeline is now being wasted and we are tumbling back to where we were. I'm not asking to spend buckets of money, on the contrary I'm asking that our transfer policy becomes far more strategic and we don't employ a scatter gun approach like we're currently doing and signing players like Will Vaulks then discarding them after 2 games!

The only way we can become sustainable is to number one become more savvy in the transfer market by identifying now players that could become available and fit our club ethos even 2 or 3 years down the line and number two creating a pathway where even one or two youngsters have an opportunity to break in the first team.

Surely everyone can see that our club is not in line with how other successful clubs are run in 2019?

Surely everyone can see that our "transfer committee" is not fit for purpose?

Surely everyone can see that the way to successfully run a championship/premier league club is not the same in 2019 as it was in 1992?

If (and surely these things are a given) these things are true, I don't understand the opposition to those of us who'd like to see our club modernise in order to enhance our chances of future success!

Good post Gringo - trouble is that there are those who see any calls for improvement or discussion of weaknesses at City as, somehow, being disloyal.

[J R Hartley]

I keep reading on this this thread about other clubs that have failed etc but if you look at the failings of those clubs it's because they didn't have any sort of plan or vision that they sunk.

You've only got to watch the Netflix documentary to see the amateurism behind Sunderland's demise and there have been similar grave errors at Portsmouth, Bolton and even Stoke.

Swansea were the model club when it came to a small club with a vision who were able to punch far above their weight and achieve good things, but as soon as they departed from that model they demise begun.

Where do we go when the parachute payments expire?

We have to find a more connected way of running our club or we'll end up where we were with Slade and it was only through Neil Warnock's genius at this level in getting every last drop out of his players that gave us a lifeline.

I fear that lifeline is now being wasted and we are tumbling back to where we were. I'm not asking to spend buckets of money, on the contrary I'm asking that our transfer policy becomes far more strategic and we don't employ a scatter gun approach like we're currently doing and signing players like Will Vaulks then discarding them after 2 games!

The only way we can become sustainable is to number one become more savvy in the transfer market by identifying now players that could become available and fit our club ethos even 2 or 3 years down the line and number two creating a pathway where even one or two youngsters have an opportunity to break in the first team.

Surely everyone can see that our club is not in line with how other successful clubs are run in 2019?

Surely everyone can see that our "transfer committee" is not fit for purpose?

Surely everyone can see that the way to successfully run a championship/premier league club is not the same in 2019 as it was in 1992?

If (and surely these things are a given) these things are true, I don't understand the opposition to those of us who'd like to see our club modernise in order to enhance our chances of future success!

But, but, but, but look at Portsmouth and Sunderland.

And dont forget we were really crap 20+ years ago.

[dembethewarrior]

I keep reading on this this thread about other clubs that have failed etc but if you look at the failings of those clubs it's because they didn't have any sort of plan or vision that they sunk.

You've only got to watch the Netflix documentary to see the amateurism behind Sunderland's demise and there have been similar grave errors at Portsmouth, Bolton and even Stoke.

Swansea were the model club when it came to a small club with a vision who were able to punch far above their weight and achieve good things, but as soon as they departed from that model they demise begun.

Where do we go when the parachute payments expire?

We have to find a more connected way of running our club or we'll end up where we were with Slade and it was only through Neil Warnock's genius at this level in getting every last drop out of his players that gave us a lifeline.

I fear that lifeline is now being wasted and we are tumbling back to where we were. I'm not asking to spend buckets of money, on the contrary I'm asking that our transfer policy becomes far more strategic and we don't employ a scatter gun approach like we're currently doing and signing players like Will Vaulks then discarding them after 2 games!

The only way we can become sustainable is to number one become more savvy in the transfer market by identifying now players that could become available and fit our club ethos even 2 or 3 years down the line and number two creating a pathway where even one or two youngsters have an opportunity to break in the first team.

Surely everyone can see that our club is not in line with how other successful clubs are run in 2019?

Surely everyone can see that our "transfer committee" is not fit for purpose?

Surely everyone can see that the way to successfully run a championship/premier league club is not the same in 2019 as it was in 1992?

If (and surely these things are a given) these things are true, I don't understand the opposition to those of us who'd like to see our club modernise in order to enhance our chances of future success!

Agreed.

Some of the replies, and the way some conversations have gone well off track is laughable.

[dembethewarrior]

But the point people are making is if there is a good progressive system in place you shouldn't end up like a pompey or a sunderland, because they were being ran like joke shops.

It’s like people are reading posts and then their brains are muddling the words before they are processed, and they just answer completely differently to what the OP was about.

[NYCBlue]

"Obviously, it's about staying in the Premier League first amd foremost".

It would seem obvious. But many on here and maybe at the club seemed to be of the opinion that it was OK to go down and "bounce back stronger". The so called "Burnley method".

[the other bob wilson]

Remember the talk during the summer of 2018 about us bringing in players who would be strong Championship performers if we got relegated, do we still believe the signings of Smithies, Cunningham, Decordova-Reid and Murphy were part of some master plan? Well, with two of them out on loan, one of them playing like he either doesn't want to be here or is going through a crisis of confidence and the other one only playing because our first choice in the position got injured, it's hard to see how it could have been - somehow, it all feels typically Cardiff City.

[A Quiet Monkfish]

Remember the talk during the summer of 2018 about us bringing in players who would be strong Championship performers if we got relegated, do we still believe the signings of Smithies, Cunningham, Decordova-Reid and Murphy were part of some master plan? Well, with two of them out on loan, one of them playing like he either doesn't want to be here or is going through a crisis of confidence and the other one only playing because our first choice in the position got injured, it's hard to see how it could have been - somehow, it all feels typically Cardiff City.

The question nobody seems to answer -even ask for that matter - is if we were a better run club would we be more successful ? Huddersfield hung on to the Premier league by their fingertips - not dissimilar to us apart from the end result, but the next season when they strengthened they were relegated pretty much by Christmas. They played some really good football an attempted to move away from their 'backs-to-the-wall' approach. I remember them looking impressive on TV a few times and they played us off the park here. Now look at them. They may move up the table as the season progresses, but maybe if they'd stuck to a playing style that their players were more adept at, they's still be in the PL..

[the other bob wilson]

The question nobody seems to answer -even ask for that matter - is if we were a better run club would we be more successful ? Huddersfield hung on to the Premier league by their fingertips - not dissimilar to us apart from the end result, but the next season when they strengthened they were relegated pretty much by Christmas. They played some really good football an attempted to move away from their 'backs-to-the-wall' approach. I remember them looking impressive on TV a few times and they played us off the park here. Now look at them. They may move up the table as the season progresses, but maybe if they'd stuck to a playing style that their players were more adept at, they's still be in the PL..

Actually, I thought our way of playing in 17/18 was going to be quite a bit more effective in the Premier League than it turned out to be because it's rare to come across a team like us at that level these days. In particular, I was hopeful that we would be very effective from attacking dead ball situations and didn't expect us to be as suspect as we were when defending them either.

I think logic says most clubs will improve, maybe not be successful, if a lot of work is put into its structure and methodology. Look at what we are at present - a club with an Academy which fails on all levels because it doesn't produce first team players for us and doesn't raise any revenue through the sale of said players (truthfully, our Academy is just a loss making exercise while those in charge deem it that we either don't have youngsters good enough to break into the first team or feel that we cannot introduce Academy products into the senior team because it is too much of a risk). Also, If a club is not producing its own first team footballers, then it needs to have a a very effective player recruit programme to compensate for that - is anyone on here going to argue that we have that at present?

An increasing number of clubs have both a working Academy and a professional and effective player recruitment set up. Besides that, I heard Glen Williams of Wales Online saying he watched the Under 23s on Monday and couldn't get over how differently they played to the senior team - actually, I think the Under 23s have taken some steps towards playing like the first team in the last year (e.g. knocking balls into the channels and the use of long throws in attack and defence), Glen should see how the Under 18s play!

There's three ways in which the club would surely improve - having an Academy which does what it is supposed to do, a less haphazard approach to the transfer market and a system of play that is common to all levels of the club, that should lead to improvement of the first team shouldn't it?

[A Quiet Monkfish]

Actually, I thought our way of playing in 17/18 was going to be quite a bit more effective in the Premier League than it turned out to be because it's rare to come across a team like us at that level these days. In particular, I was hopeful that we would be very effective from attacking dead ball situations and didn't expect us to be as suspect as we were when defending them either.

I think logic says most clubs will improve, maybe not be successful, if a lot of work is put into its structure and methodology. Look at what we are at present - a club with an Academy which fails on all levels because it doesn't produce first team players for us and doesn't raise any revenue through the sale of said players (truthfully, our Academy is just a loss making exercise while those in charge deem it that we either don't have youngsters good enough to break into the first team or feel that we cannot introduce Academy products into the senior team because it is too much of a risk). Also, If a club is not producing its own first team footballers, then it needs to have a a very effective player recruit programme to compensate for that - is anyone on here going to argue that we have that at present?

An increasing number of clubs have both a working Academy and a professional and effective player recruitment set up. Besides that, I heard Glen Williams of Wales Online saying he watched the Under 23s on Monday and couldn't get over how differently they played to the senior team - actually, I think the Under 23s have taken some steps towards playing like the first team in the last year (e.g. knocking balls into the channels and the use of long throws in attack and defence), Glen should see how the Under 18s play!

There's three ways in which the club would surely improve - having an Academy which does what it is supposed to do, a less haphazard approach to the transfer market and a system of play that is common to all levels of the club, that should lead to improvement of the first team shouldn't it?

Yes, especially a more knowledgeable approach to transfers. I think it's increasingly difficult to get players to come here at present, and I doubt we'll reach top 6 this season because our recruitment has been so poor and not even Warnock can get this squad into the play offs..

[Pearcey3]

Actually, I thought our way of playing in 17/18 was going to be quite a bit more effective in the Premier League than it turned out to be because it's rare to come across a team like us at that level these days. In particular, I was hopeful that we would be very effective from attacking dead ball situations and didn't expect us to be as suspect as we were when defending them either.

I think logic says most clubs will improve, maybe not be successful, if a lot of work is put into its structure and methodology. Look at what we are at present - a club with an Academy which fails on all levels because it doesn't produce first team players for us and doesn't raise any revenue through the sale of said players (truthfully, our Academy is just a loss making exercise while those in charge deem it that we either don't have youngsters good enough to break into the first team or feel that we cannot introduce Academy products into the senior team because it is too much of a risk). Also, If a club is not producing its own first team footballers, then it needs to have a a very effective player recruit programme to compensate for that - is anyone on here going to argue that we have that at present?

An increasing number of clubs have both a working Academy and a professional and effective player recruitment set up. Besides that, I heard Glen Williams of Wales Online saying he watched the Under 23s on Monday and couldn't get over how differently they played to the senior team - actually, I think the Under 23s have taken some steps towards playing like the first team in the last year (e.g. knocking balls into the channels and the use of long throws in attack and defence), Glen should see how the Under 18s play!

There's three ways in which the club would surely improve - having an Academy which does what it is supposed to do, a less haphazard approach to the transfer market and a system of play that is common to all levels of the club, that should lead to improvement of the first team shouldn't it?

Well Reading have a successful Academy and a defined way of playing throughout the club and still managed to waste millions in the transfer market and are in the relegation zone.
Just one question. If Cardiff win promotion this season (currently six points off top spot) what would your view be on how the club is functioning?

[the other bob wilson]

Well Reading have a successful Academy and a defined way of playing throughout the club and still managed to waste millions in the transfer market and are in the relegation zone.
Just one question. If Cardiff win promotion this season (currently six points off top spot) what would your view be on how the club is functioning?

Well, if that happened, then I would assume that some of the transfers which look dodgy currently had turned out to be far from that, so that would be one of the three things I listed that would not apply, but the other two still would and they did in 17/18 - you may not believe me, but I felt exactly the same about the Academy and the differences between the way the senior team played compared to all of our age group teams on the day we got promoted.

[The Hooded Claw]

It’s clear that Warnock was a good appointment at the the time. He stabilised the club and unexpectedly got us promoted to the Premier League, where, frankly, our lack of a plan got found out and now we’re back to a level more befitting of the club’s set up.
The thing is, that most clubs around us are or have already moved on and so, as many have already said, Warnock has probably taken us as far as he can.
If we’re going to stay relevant and grow the club, we need progression, otherwise why don’t the club just employ local boys and play with an old leather ball?
I find it stunning that with all of the money at stake, the club does appear to be like driftwood...

[dembethewarrior]

It’s clear that Warnock was a good appointment at the the time. He stabilised the club and unexpectedly got us promoted to the Premier League, where, frankly, our lack of a plan got found out and now we’re back to a level more befitting of the club’s set up.
The thing is, that most clubs around us are or have already moved on and so, as many have already said, Warnock has probably taken us as far as he can.
If we’re going to stay relevant and grow the club, we need progression, otherwise why don’t the club just employ local boys and play with an old leather ball?
I find it stunning that with all of the money at stake, the club does appear to be like driftwood...

Imagine we had a man to do all that planning.

Wouldn’t that be lovely.

[thehumblegringo]

The question nobody seems to answer -even ask for that matter - is if we were a better run club would we be more successful ? Huddersfield hung on to the Premier league by their fingertips - not dissimilar to us apart from the end result, but the next season when they strengthened they were relegated pretty much by Christmas. They played some really good football an attempted to move away from their 'backs-to-the-wall' approach. I remember them looking impressive on TV a few times and they played us off the park here. Now look at them. They may move up the table as the season progresses, but maybe if they'd stuck to a playing style that their players were more adept at, they's still be in the PL..

I think this is a fair question. I think if a club like Cardiff or Huddersfield go up with limited funds, having a vision or plan doesn't guarantee that a club will stay up but just increase it's chances.

I think the loss of Stuart Webber towards the end of their promotion season was a hammer blow for Huddersfield. No doubt some of the players they signed in the first season in the premier league would have already been identified when he left.

The appointment of Olaf Rebbe as sporting director just simply didn't work. He was sacked by Wolfsburg before he came in and signed all prospects from Bundesliga 2 when they probably weren't good enough.

They recently brought in David Webb as head of operations who has been working at Ostersunds and had previously been head of recruitment at Bournemouth so it will be interesting to see how they do in the next window.

I watched an interview on YouTube with Stuart Webber and Steve Weaver which highlighted the scale of the job they undertook when they took up their roles at Huddersfield.

https://youtu.be/6K9UBRvGR0k

One thing I will add, is that though Huddersfield don't look brilliant on the pitch at them moment, off the pitch they are stable.

We were hemorrhaging money before we got promoted and I think it will be the same again soon if something drastic isn't done.

[Pearcey3]

Yes I know you have been critical for a long time about the number of players that have come through the Academy. I think it’s incredibly difficult for Championship clubs to get it right. The rewards of winning promotion appear huge but in reality the costs of surviving in the top flight can be overwhelming.

Outside the big five or six clubs very few seem able to sustain top flight football over a long term period. I’m not convinced any club has a particularly effective model. Maybe Leicester. Beyond that it seems to be a case of trying to survive for as long as possible before relegation hits.