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Thread: Another 3 stabbings in London yesterday

  1. #1

    Another 3 stabbings in London yesterday

    2 fatal.
    Surely time for a 10 yr stretch if found carrying a knife, and life with no chance of parole if murdering someone with a knife?
    Jails too full, build more!

  2. #2

    Re: Another 3 stabbings in London yesterday

    Anyone willing to kill or wound someone should be put away imo.

    But the route cause of all this needs addressing too, sticking people in prison won't stop it happening.

  3. #3

    Re: Another 3 stabbings in London yesterday

    Quote Originally Posted by Croesy Blue View Post
    Anyone willing to kill or wound someone should be put away imo.

    But the route cause of all this needs addressing too, sticking people in prison won't stop it happening.
    Most of this is turf war drug supply related , legalise drugs and a large chunk of this violence would be stopped as these criminal gangs wouldn't be able to make money out of supplying drugs

  4. #4

    Re: Another 3 stabbings in London yesterday

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
    Most of this is turf war drug supply related , legalise drugs and a large chunk of this violence would be stopped as these criminal gangs wouldn't be able to make money out of supplying drugs
    I agree legalise drugs, better education and schemes for young at risk kids so they don't fall in to gangs and more police on the streets would drastically reduce this.

  5. #5

    Re: Another 3 stabbings in London yesterday

    I've worked on local news in London for the past 5 years. In that time the main constant has been services shutting down, youth clubs closing, charities losing funding. A decade of austerity has consequences - the generation growing up now are the ones who were of the age to no longer have access to good youth clubs, charities, etc.
    There's also the factor that every thing kids do goes on social media - meaning that what would have been a minor dispute in the past becomes a hyper-important moment where you have to act tough and save face to avoid being humiliated. That escalates into more violence. And starts rivalries between groups of youngsters.
    While some is drug related, the vast majority isn't. It's a vicious circle that needs to be broken - kids don't feel safe, so they carry knives. Kids carrying knives get in fights, as kids do but because they have knives a kid gets stabbed. Other kids don't feel safe, so they carry knives. Ad infinitum.
    Sentences don't deter. It's an education issue and a diversion issue - youngsters need help to be funnelled into more positive activities they'll enjoy and that's where you can reach them - boxing clubs, youth centres, etc where role models can help them. But that takes cash.

  6. #6

    Re: Another 3 stabbings in London yesterday

    Austerity kills

  7. #7

    Re: Another 3 stabbings in London yesterday

    Quote Originally Posted by tomm View Post
    I've worked on local news in London for the past 5 years. In that time the main constant has been services shutting down, youth clubs closing, charities losing funding. A decade of austerity has consequences - the generation growing up now are the ones who were of the age to no longer have access to good youth clubs, charities, etc.
    There's also the factor that every thing kids do goes on social media - meaning that what would have been a minor dispute in the past becomes a hyper-important moment where you have to act tough and save face to avoid being humiliated. That escalates into more violence. And starts rivalries between groups of youngsters.
    While some is drug related, the vast majority isn't. It's a vicious circle that needs to be broken - kids don't feel safe, so they carry knives. Kids carrying knives get in fights, as kids do but because they have knives a kid gets stabbed. Other kids don't feel safe, so they carry knives. Ad infinitum.
    Sentences don't deter. It's an education issue and a diversion issue - youngsters need help to be funnelled into more positive activities they'll enjoy and that's where you can reach them - boxing clubs, youth centres, etc where role models can help them. But that takes cash.
    Operation trident specifically targets black on black gun violence , if it wasn't for the Tories cutting funding to the police then maybe a similar unit could be set up to combat black on black knife crime alongside education and activity as you suggest

  8. #8

    Re: Another 3 stabbings in London yesterday

    Quote Originally Posted by Rjk View Post
    Austerity kills
    Got it in one.

  9. #9

    Re: Another 3 stabbings in London yesterday

    Quote Originally Posted by Croesy Blue View Post
    Got it in one.
    Austerity is a factor, but but only a small factor.

  10. #10

    Re: Another 3 stabbings in London yesterday

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
    Most of this is turf war drug supply related , legalise drugs and a large chunk of this violence would be stopped as these criminal gangs wouldn't be able to make money out of supplying drugs
    Tobacco is a legal drug and criminals make money from that.

  11. #11

    Re: Another 3 stabbings in London yesterday

    Quote Originally Posted by tomm View Post
    I've worked on local news in London for the past 5 years. In that time the main constant has been services shutting down, youth clubs closing, charities losing funding. A decade of austerity has consequences - the generation growing up now are the ones who were of the age to no longer have access to good youth clubs, charities, etc.
    There's also the factor that every thing kids do goes on social media - meaning that what would have been a minor dispute in the past becomes a hyper-important moment where you have to act tough and save face to avoid being humiliated. That escalates into more violence. And starts rivalries between groups of youngsters.
    While some is drug related, the vast majority isn't. It's a vicious circle that needs to be broken - kids don't feel safe, so they carry knives. Kids carrying knives get in fights, as kids do but because they have knives a kid gets stabbed. Other kids don't feel safe, so they carry knives. Ad infinitum.
    Sentences don't deter. It's an education issue and a diversion issue - youngsters need help to be funnelled into more positive activities they'll enjoy and that's where you can reach them - boxing clubs, youth centres, etc where role models can help them. But that takes cash.
    All that is mainly nonsense. Most crims are born bad.

  12. #12

    Re: Another 3 stabbings in London yesterday

    Quote Originally Posted by David Vincent View Post
    All that is mainly nonsense. Most crims are born bad.


  13. #13

    Re: Another 3 stabbings in London yesterday

    Quote Originally Posted by David Vincent View Post
    All that is mainly nonsense. Most crims are born bad.
    Nobody is born bad. It’s a combination of what happens to you as a child, how well your parent/parents raise you, and the role models in your life.

  14. #14

    Re: Another 3 stabbings in London yesterday

    Quote Originally Posted by David Vincent View Post
    All that is mainly nonsense. Most crims are born bad.
    What source of educated knowledge have you read to come up with that load of bollocks?

  15. #15

    Re: Another 3 stabbings in London yesterday

    Quote Originally Posted by William Treseder View Post
    Austerity is a factor, but but only a small factor.
    What other factors are there then?

  16. #16

    Re: Another 3 stabbings in London yesterday

    Quote Originally Posted by tomm View Post
    I've worked on local news in London for the past 5 years. In that time the main constant has been services shutting down, youth clubs closing, charities losing funding. A decade of austerity has consequences - the generation growing up now are the ones who were of the age to no longer have access to good youth clubs, charities, etc.
    There's also the factor that every thing kids do goes on social media - meaning that what would have been a minor dispute in the past becomes a hyper-important moment where you have to act tough and save face to avoid being humiliated. That escalates into more violence. And starts rivalries between groups of youngsters.
    While some is drug related, the vast majority isn't. It's a vicious circle that needs to be broken - kids don't feel safe, so they carry knives. Kids carrying knives get in fights, as kids do but because they have knives a kid gets stabbed. Other kids don't feel safe, so they carry knives. Ad infinitum.
    Sentences don't deter. It's an education issue and a diversion issue - youngsters need help to be funnelled into more positive activities they'll enjoy and that's where you can reach them - boxing clubs, youth centres, etc where role models can help them. But that takes cash.

    That's a typical and very wrong analysis of the problems.
    Just because a kid, or anyone else, thinks it's necessary to carry a knife or other weapon doesn't mean that we have to convince them differently. What we need to convince them of is that doing so will result in severe consequences.
    We really can't get involved in their insane and stupid motivations just because they have decided on a course of conduct which is intolerable .
    Sentences do deter, but they know there'll be no serious sentences. In a recent case a South London juvenile , ( you'll probably know the case if you're a local reporter in Croydon), went out to Stevenage to do a robbery ,in the course of which he stabbed a police officer and Police Dog Finn, who nearly died. It led to a change in the Law about stabbing police dogs, but the little shit got a supervision order or something for his crimes.

    These stupid schemes involving youth clubs , mentors and airy fairy persuasions are exoensive and they've been going on for a long time, but they DO NOT work. How long before every other variety of criminal, such as bank robbers and serial killers are getting a sympathetic ear from the media about their problems and what led them to their crimes ? Shall we also let the Yorkshire Ripper out and send him on a course run by otherwise unemployable violent offenders who are now too old to attack people ?
    What about Jihadists who've murdered people in shopping centres and tourist centres ? Shall we send them to an Islamist stamp collecting club or something ?

    We hear this bollocks endlessly from the liberal media and chattering classes but in the mean time normal people have to go about their lawful business in areas like South London in fear of being randomly stabbed or caught up in some mindless post code attack.
    .....and what happens ? More talk of insufficient youth clubs ..........!

  17. #17

    Re: Another 3 stabbings in London yesterday

    Ronnie you've got it in one

  18. #18

    Re: Another 3 stabbings in London yesterday

    Quote Originally Posted by William Treseder View Post
    Nobody is born bad. It’s a combination of what happens to you as a child, how well your parent/parents raise you, and the role models in your life.
    How well your parents raise you......
    A lot of these kids are from broken homes, no discipline and their not scared of teachers or police, no fathers around to guide.
    No hope

  19. #19

    Re: Another 3 stabbings in London yesterday

    Quote Originally Posted by RonnieBird View Post
    That's a typical and very wrong analysis of the problems.
    Just because a kid, or anyone else, thinks it's necessary to carry a knife or other weapon doesn't mean that we have to convince them differently. What we need to convince them of is that doing so will result in severe consequences.
    We really can't get involved in their insane and stupid motivations just because they have decided on a course of conduct which is intolerable .
    Sentences do deter, but they know there'll be no serious sentences. In a recent case a South London juvenile , ( you'll probably know the case if you're a local reporter in Croydon), went out to Stevenage to do a robbery ,in the course of which he stabbed a police officer and Police Dog Finn, who nearly died. It led to a change in the Law about stabbing police dogs, but the little shit got a supervision order or something for his crimes.

    These stupid schemes involving youth clubs , mentors and airy fairy persuasions are exoensive and they've been going on for a long time, but they DO NOT work. How long before every other variety of criminal, such as bank robbers and serial killers are getting a sympathetic ear from the media about their problems and what led them to their crimes ? Shall we also let the Yorkshire Ripper out and send him on a course run by otherwise unemployable violent offenders who are now too old to attack people ?
    What about Jihadists who've murdered people in shopping centres and tourist centres ? Shall we send them to an Islamist stamp collecting club or something ?

    We hear this bollocks endlessly from the liberal media and chattering classes but in the mean time normal people have to go about their lawful business in areas like South London in fear of being randomly stabbed or caught up in some mindless post code attack.
    .....and what happens ? More talk of insufficient youth clubs ..........!
    I dont get the youth clubs shutting down stuff, they were always terrible when I was young. When working as a youth worker in Cardiff they were also sh*t and depressing most kids rather stay at home and play x box and the new one in butetown was practically empty.
    Things might have changed in the last 10/15 yrs but I doubt it....

  20. #20

    Re: Another 3 stabbings in London yesterday

    Quote Originally Posted by William Treseder View Post
    Nobody is born bad. It’s a combination of what happens to you as a child, how well your parent/parents raise you, and the role models in your life.
    If you believe that no child is born bad then I suppose you would quite happily adopt from birth the offspring of two cannibalistic child killers. To make this simple just imagine that the child would never know his background. Would you bring up this child with your other children without worries?

  21. #21

    Re: Another 3 stabbings in London yesterday

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee View Post
    What source of educated knowledge have you read to come up with that load of bollocks?
    Lots of life experience and careful observation of my fellow citizens.

  22. #22

    Re: Another 3 stabbings in London yesterday

    Quote Originally Posted by David Vincent View Post
    If you believe that no child is born bad then I suppose you would quite happily adopt from birth the offspring of two cannibalistic child killers. To make this simple just imagine that the child would never know his background. Would you bring up this child with your other children without worries?
    Yes

  23. #23

    Re: Another 3 stabbings in London yesterday

    Quote Originally Posted by David Vincent View Post
    If you believe that no child is born bad then I suppose you would quite happily adopt from birth the offspring of two cannibalistic child killers. To make this simple just imagine that the child would never know his background. Would you bring up this child with your other children without worries?
    I assume that each of the cannibalistic child killers had two cannibalistic child killers as parents, who each had two cannibalistic child killers, and they....so on?

    Otherwise you don't really have much of a point.

    If it was as simple as criminals are criminals because their parents were criminals, then back in the middle ages those families would probably have been drowned and crime would have died out with them.

  24. #24

    Re: Another 3 stabbings in London yesterday

    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post
    I assume that each of the cannibalistic child killers had two cannibalistic child killers as parents, who each had two cannibalistic child killers, and they....so on?

    Otherwise you don't really have much of a point.

    If it was as simple as criminals are criminals because their parents were criminals, then back in the middle ages those families would probably have been drowned and crime would have died out with them.
    Lardy you've got it my old son.The Middle ages is where some of these posters come from.I remember Willie Whitelaw back in the early 80's and his short, sharp, shock treatment.That failed big time and so did everything else tried since or before that involved longer gaol sentences.

  25. #25

    Re: Another 3 stabbings in London yesterday

    Quote Originally Posted by David Vincent View Post
    If you believe that no child is born bad then I suppose you would quite happily adopt from birth the offspring of two cannibalistic child killers. To make this simple just imagine that the child would never know his background. Would you bring up this child with your other children without worries?
    If there was any remote sense to this ignorant statement then Australia would never have existed.

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