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Thread: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?

  1. #176

    Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?

    Quote Originally Posted by rudy gestede View Post
    That’s wrong you’re pulling everything out of your own mind. Can you not see how weird it is to have such a strong opinion that isn’t based on facts?

    You’ve even argued against yourself in this thread but your opinion is too entrenched to see it.
    Which bit is not based on fact and which bit is contradictory. I have known/worked with people who have killed and they seemed rational to me. At least one of them has been out of prison so long that I doubt that he ever thinks much about that part of his life. He has moved on as therapists say. His victim has missed out on all the pleasures that this murderer is now enjoying.

  2. #177

    Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?

    Quote Originally Posted by rudy gestede View Post
    That’s wrong you’re pulling everything out of your own mind. Can you not see how weird it is to have such a strong opinion that isn’t based on facts?

    You’ve even argued against yourself in this thread but your opinion is too entrenched to see it.
    You seen them Trump loons online?

  3. #178

    Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?

    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post
    You think all criminals are born bad.
    Yes. I think they are born with little or no conscience. When they work out the cost / benefits of their crimes any guilt they might feel about their crimes does not come into the equation. The fact that they are born with brains like that doesn't mean their criminality is determined. They can still choose to not be a criminal. It is just harder for them. It is a bit like someone with a very high testosterone level being more likely to rape someone than a man with a low testosterone level. He could choose not to rape.

  4. #179

    Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Vincent View Post
    Which bit is not based on fact and which bit is contradictory. I have known/worked with people who have killed and they seemed rational to me. At least one of them has been out of prison so long that I doubt that he ever thinks much about that part of his life. He has moved on as therapists say. His victim has missed out on all the pleasures that this murderer is now enjoying.
    What job ave you got working with killers?

  5. #180

    Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie View Post
    Well if you are any sort of linguist you will know it's a case of 'use it or lose it' and my German lecturer is a fantastic Oxford-educated polyglot so this humble soul has no problem with learning from him every week (in addition to accessing other sources) and improving my level year-on-year. If you see that as a negative and relevant in this thread in any way whatsoever bully for you.

    Personally, I think it makes you come over as being rather silly.
    Why is it that those who dish it out are the most sensitive about receiving it? I am not casting any aspersions on your teacher/guru/boyfriend. I think it is great to keep learning. It keeps my brain active.

  6. #181

    Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Vincent View Post
    Yes. I think they are born with little or no conscience. When they work out the cost / benefits of their crimes any guilt they might feel about their crimes does not come into the equation. The fact that they are born with brains like that doesn't mean their criminality is determined. They can still choose to not be a criminal. It is just harder for them. It is a bit like someone with a very high testosterone level being more likely to rape someone than a man with a low testosterone level. He could choose not to rape.
    Sounds like you're talking about psychopaths rather than criminals. Most murders in the UK have motives (like crimes of passion, gang violence) they aren't cold bloded psychopaths calculating things like you're discussing, they're relatively rare.

  7. #182

    Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Vincent View Post
    Yes. I think they are born with little or no conscience. When they work out the cost / benefits of their crimes any guilt they might feel about their crimes does not come into the equation. The fact that they are born with brains like that doesn't mean their criminality is determined. They can still choose to not be a criminal. It is just harder for them. It is a bit like someone with a very high testosterone level being more likely to rape someone than a man with a low testosterone level. He could choose not to rape.
    And you also believe it's hereditary.

    Just establishing this so we can all give your opinions the credibility they deserve.

  8. #183

    Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?

    This thread is ****ing nuts.

  9. #184

    Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?

    I was involved in a case in Uganda a few years back and the net result was we arrested a European guy who abusing children. The evidence we collected was sufficient enough to eventually convict him in his home country. He committed suicide in prision in August this year.

    I am saddened he didnt get to spend the rest of his life incarcerated and deprived of his freedom. Also, we will never know what other children had been affected by his abhorrent behaviour as much of that information has died with him and therefore will never be able to provide the victims with the necessary support they need.

    Similarly the death penalty denies society the opportunity to deny freedom to perpetrators and it denies any release of further information which could help victims

    There is no evidence that the death penalty acts as a deterrent in western societies, just look at the States

    Also.. and this is something that often gets overlooked, the death penalty is pretty expensive... add up the costs of the lawyers, appeals, courts & special arrangements etc and its pretty expensive

    So its a no from me

  10. #185

    Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Croesy Blue View Post
    What job ave you got working with killers?
    I don't work with killers in the sense that I am looking after them or anything like that. I have just worked in the same offices or factories as them. Not long ago I was chatting to a policeman and I mentioned all the people I knew who had killed and those people who had been killed and he was surprised. He said he had no friends, acquaintances or work mates who had been killed. I have moved around a lot and I have worked in many different places so that might explain it.

  11. #186

    Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Vincent View Post
    I don't work with killers in the sense that I am looking after them or anything like that. I have just worked in the same offices or factories as them. Not long ago I was chatting to a policeman and I mentioned all the people I knew who had killed and those people who had been killed and he was surprised. He said he had no friends, acquaintances or work mates who had been killed. I have moved around a lot and I have worked in many different places so that might explain it.

  12. #187

    Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Croesy Blue View Post
    I read it with a Donald Trump voice. Even better.

  13. #188

    Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Vincent View Post
    I don't work with killers in the sense that I am looking after them or anything like that. I have just worked in the same offices or factories as them. Not long ago I was chatting to a policeman and I mentioned all the people I knew who had killed and those people who had been killed and he was surprised. He said he had no friends, acquaintances or work mates who had been killed. I have moved around a lot and I have worked in many different places so that might explain it.
    this guy

  14. #189

    Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?

    Quote Originally Posted by dembethewarrior View Post
    What are the costs?

    Seems mad that an injection costs more than 50 years in prison.
    I wouldn't care if it was twice as expensive to keep them in prison. I would absolutely not want to live in a country where the government were prepared to execute people to save the equivalent of loose change.

  15. #190

    Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rjk View Post
    I wouldn't care if it was twice as expensive to keep them in prison. I would absolutely not want to live in a country where the government were prepared to execute people to save the equivalent of loose change.
    I just wanted to see the costs and compare them

    Calm down.

  16. #191

    Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Vincent View Post
    I don't work with killers in the sense that I am looking after them or anything like that. I have just worked in the same offices or factories as them. Not long ago I was chatting to a policeman and I mentioned all the people I knew who had killed and those people who had been killed and he was surprised. He said he had no friends, acquaintances or work mates who had been killed. I have moved around a lot and I have worked in many different places so that might explain it.
    Where do you work? ..... Midsomer

  17. #192

    Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Croesy Blue View Post
    Multi?

  18. #193

    Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Vincent View Post
    Why is it that those who dish it out are the most sensitive about receiving it? I am not casting any aspersions on your teacher/guru/boyfriend. I think it is great to keep learning. It keeps my brain active.
    So now I am considered to be sensitive because I thought your comment was irrelevant and silly. And then you insert the very childish 'boyfriend' comment.

    I am sure that you feel very clever.

  19. #194

    Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie View Post
    So now I am considered to be sensitive because I thought your comment was irrelevant and silly. And then you insert the very childish 'boyfriend' comment.

    I am sure that you feel very clever.
    It's probably the first time in his life that he's been politically correct-Maybe he's turning?

  20. #195

    Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?

    Quote Originally Posted by splott parker View Post
    Where do you work? ..... Midsomer
    I had a relative who came from Midsomer Norton to work in the mines. He made a mistake that killed more people in a few seconds than Midsomer Murders have had killed in 20 years.

    I sense that eyebrows were raised by my comment about knowing murderers and murdered. But I would guess that many people on here might know someone who was killed or has killed. It is a not a tasteful thing to dwell on and these people will not want to be reminded of it.

    My main point is that murder is not a remote and academic question to many people. Some would say that because 1.2 per 100,000 are murdered each year in the UK we don't have to worry about it. Divide that figure by 52 and you might feel even safer. There's little chance of us being murdered this week. How about looking at the chance that are going to be murdered in the next hour. It is tiny. But that is the wrong way to look at it. You need to look at your lifetime probability of being murdered. In some parts of the world it is terrifying. I have calculated that the chance of being murdered in Cape Town given the current murder rate and an 80 year life time is more than 5%. The UK figure will be much less, but say you have a 1 in a 1000 lifetime chance of being murdered in Cardiff which is probably about right then just imagine that at the next home game more than 20 spectators were randomly selected to be murdered. Do you think that figure is so small that the attendance wouldn't drop? Of course not. No one would turn up.

  21. #196

    Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rjk View Post
    I wouldn't care if it was twice as expensive to keep them in prison. I would absolutely not want to live in a country where the government were prepared to execute people to save the equivalent of loose change.
    This is something National Heath Service has to do - you've heard of NICE. They don't execute people but they decide who to keep alive. It can't be avoided.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-28983924

  22. #197

    Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Vincent View Post

    I have calculated that the chance of being murdered in Cape Town given the current murder rate and an 80 year life time is more than 5%. The UK figure will be much less, but say you have a 1 in a 1000 lifetime chance of being murdered in Cardiff which is probably about right then just imagine that at the next home game more than 20 spectators were randomly selected to be murdered. Do you think that figure is so small that the attendance wouldn't drop? Of course not. No one would turn up.
    I don't like to tell anyone how to spend their time but you definitely need to find another way to spend your time

  23. #198

    Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?

    Quote Originally Posted by delmbox View Post
    I don't like to tell anyone how to spend their time but you definitely need to find another way to spend your time
    He’s also very wrong and doesn’t understand statistical data

  24. #199

    Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?

    Quote Originally Posted by rudy gestede View Post
    He’s also very wrong and doesn’t understand statistical data
    I'm always ready to learn from an expert. What statistics don't I understand?

  25. #200

    Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?

    Quote Originally Posted by rudy gestede View Post
    He’s also very wrong and doesn’t understand statistical data
    While I was waiting for your lesson in stats I though I’d work out the chance of getting to 80 in Cardiff without being murdered. The murder rate for Cardiff is 1.7 per 100,000 according to this site.

    https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/w...ealed-10782048

    So the chance of not being killed each year is 99998.3/100000 = .999983. To survive 80 years you calculate .999983 to the power of 80 and you get .99864. That’s the chance of getting to 80 without being killed. The chance of being killed is 1-.99864=0.00136. That means 1.36 per 1000 will be murdered before they make 80.

    I'm just a silly old man - as our German student keeps telling me - so I am sure you will be able correct my figures and point me in the right direction.

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