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Thread: Right then...managerial options

  1. #31

    Re: Right then...managerial options

    Nobody decent is going to come here and work with our transfer committee.

  2. #32

    Re: Right then...managerial options

    Oh dear, certainly not Flynn or Bamba. But whoever should keep on Blackwell and Jepson who know the club and the current players. Getting to keep Dibble would be important too. I see Rowett has gone to Millwall so that's one less to worry about.

  3. #33

    Re: Right then...managerial options

    Blackwell's a big, big chum of our Neil who has provided him with many years of employment at a long list of clubs. Should he have the influence many believe he has with Vinny and co he must be a shoe-in as manager next season.

  4. #34

    Re: Right then...managerial options

    Quote Originally Posted by Organ Morgan. View Post
    Blackwell's a big, big chum of our Neil who has provided him with many years of employment at a long list of clubs. Should he have the influence many believe he has with Vinny and co he must be a shoe-in as manager next season.
    I sincerely hope not.

  5. #35

    Re: Right then...managerial options

    If I remember correctly, he signed him as a player at one club and appointed him in a coaching role at a further nine clubs.

  6. #36

    Re: Right then...managerial options

    Quote Originally Posted by jon1959 View Post
    Mikel Arteta
    If only.

  7. #37

    Re: Right then...managerial options

    Quote Originally Posted by Organ Morgan. View Post
    Blackwell's a big, big chum of our Neil who has provided him with many years of employment at a long list of clubs. Should he have the influence many believe he has with Vinny and co he must be a shoe-in as manager next season.
    This is my worry. Warnock, when announcing his retirement, will have surely made moves to re-assure both Blackwell and Jepson that they won't be facing unemployment. I hope the club's board are strong enough and aren't swayed by Warnock in the selection of the new manager. We need a new broom to sweep the club clean.

  8. #38

    Re: Right then...managerial options

    Quote Originally Posted by Organ Morgan. View Post
    Blackwell's a big, big chum of our Neil who has provided him with many years of employment at a long list of clubs. Should he have the influence many believe he has with Vinny and co he must be a shoe-in as manager next season.
    You’re assuming he wants to fly solo

  9. #39

    Re: Right then...managerial options

    Quote Originally Posted by LeningradCowboy View Post
    Nobody decent is going to come here and work with our transfer committee.
    We have a transfer committee of 4. I would expect that a budget is allocated which is reasonable enough. It is acknowledged that 3 of them know little enough about football so, in my view, any failings in the system at the moment is down to NW and the scouting system. NW will determine what sort of player he wants and, I imagine our scouts (whoever they are) will report on whose available, NW chooses (within a budget) and the player is signed.

    It would be interesting to know who has the biggest input into the player remuneration. If NW sees the potential player personally salary is bound to be a (if not the) major factor.

    It seems to me that any “decent” manager who comes here is going to find that he has, probably within a budget, free rein. I wonder where the “checks and balances” are ?

  10. #40

    Re: Right then...managerial options

    In all honesty I think we will still have NW here this time next year.

  11. #41

    Re: Right then...managerial options

    Quote Originally Posted by Enoch Mort View Post
    We have a transfer committee of 4. I would expect that a budget is allocated which is reasonable enough. It is acknowledged that 3 of them know little enough about football so, in my view, any failings in the system at the moment is down to NW and the scouting system. NW will determine what sort of player he wants and, I imagine our scouts (whoever they are) will report on whose available, NW chooses (within a budget) and the player is signed.

    It would be interesting to know who has the biggest input into the player remuneration. If NW sees the potential player personally salary is bound to be a (if not the) major factor.

    It seems to me that any “decent” manager who comes here is going to find that he has, probably within a budget, free rein. I wonder where the “checks and balances” are ?
    We've had the transfer committee since the start of the 2014/15 season. It didn't work any better before Warnock arrived at the club, which suggests that the main problem is with the system and not the manager.

  12. #42

    Re: Right then...managerial options

    Quote Originally Posted by LeningradCowboy View Post
    We've had the transfer committee since the start of the 2014/15 season. It didn't work any better before Warnock arrived at the club, which suggests that the main problem is with the system and not the manager.
    Agreed. However, it seems to me that we now have a more “assertive “ manager than his 2 predecessors and it appears that VT has implicit faith in the current manager (some might argue that it is misplaced). The system is less than perfect but it looks to me as if one dominant personality has made it worse by what appears to be poor judgement and expensive mistakes which, ultimately, is how the transfer committee is going to be judged.

  13. #43

    Re: Right then...managerial options

    Our transfer policy has to be the worst in the top two divisions, even worse than Fulham. I think NW has spent £57m on transfer fees (approx) since he's been here and we have no value in our team especially. He did well with free transfers and out of contract players like Bamba, Hoilett, NML and Etheridge were excellent, when he actually spends money it is awful. Paterson has been decent though.

    Tomlin (£1.6m), Ward (£1.6m), Bogle (£750k), Paterson (£425k), Madine (£6m), Reid (£10m), Cunningham (£4m), Smithies (£3.5m), Bacuna (£3m), Murphy (£11m),Flint (£6m), Whyte (£2m), Pacl (£750k), Glatzel (£5.5m), Vaulks (£2.1m), Vassell (£2m). Actually that's about £60m if the Pack fee is right.

    Not many of those have been exceptional or even good for us, about 5 of them can't get a game, and Flint and Murphy are OK but are they worth the fee? We don't seem to pick up players any more then be able to profit from them , either by having good performances on the pitch or selling one (Zohore being one exception). Plus the gambles last season on loans of Camarasa, Arter and Niasse, only one of whom played well.

    Unfortunately our 'friends' down West have spent shedfulls too but sold a load of players for big fees to keep them going.

    How much would we get back for ours listed above. Some will be released at the end of the season (Bogle, Ward, Tomlin). Two of those were deemed not good enough not long after we signed them and sent out on loans, now we want them as first choices. It shows how far backwards we have gone, so to be where we are and 6 points of the top is no bad.

    We need someone in who can do what Dave Jones did, sign - in his words 'waifs and strays' and get them to perform and then sell them on for big fees, Loovens, Johnson, Chopra etc.

  14. #44

    Re: Right then...managerial options

    Quote Originally Posted by cardiff55 View Post
    Our transfer policy has to be the worst in the top two divisions, even worse than Fulham. I think NW has spent £57m on transfer fees (approx) since he's been here and we have no value in our team especially. He did well with free transfers and out of contract players like Bamba, Hoilett, NML and Etheridge were excellent, when he actually spends money it is awful. Paterson has been decent though.

    Tomlin (£1.6m), Ward (£1.6m), Bogle (£750k), Paterson (£425k), Madine (£6m), Reid (£10m), Cunningham (£4m), Smithies (£3.5m), Bacuna (£3m), Murphy (£11m),Flint (£6m), Whyte (£2m), Pacl (£750k), Glatzel (£5.5m), Vaulks (£2.1m), Vassell (£2m). Actually that's about £60m if the Pack fee is right.

    Not many of those have been exceptional or even good for us, about 5 of them can't get a game, and Flint and Murphy are OK but are they worth the fee? We don't seem to pick up players any more then be able to profit from them , either by having good performances on the pitch or selling one (Zohore being one exception). Plus the gambles last season on loans of Camarasa, Arter and Niasse, only one of whom played well.

    Unfortunately our 'friends' down West have spent shedfulls too but sold a load of players for big fees to keep them going.

    How much would we get back for ours listed above. Some will be released at the end of the season (Bogle, Ward, Tomlin). Two of those were deemed not good enough not long after we signed them and sent out on loans, now we want them as first choices. It shows how far backwards we have gone, so to be where we are and 6 points of the top is no bad.

    We need someone in who can do what Dave Jones did, sign - in his words 'waifs and strays' and get them to perform and then sell them on for big fees, Loovens, Johnson, Chopra etc.
    We received seven figures in loan fee and bonuses for Madine. Allegedly.

  15. #45

    Re: Right then...managerial options

    Quote Originally Posted by cardiff55 View Post
    Our transfer policy has to be the worst in the top two divisions, even worse than Fulham. I think NW has spent £57m on transfer fees (approx) since he's been here and we have no value in our team especially. He did well with free transfers and out of contract players like Bamba, Hoilett, NML and Etheridge were excellent, when he actually spends money it is awful. Paterson has been decent though.

    Tomlin (£1.6m), Ward (£1.6m), Bogle (£750k), Paterson (£425k), Madine (£6m), Reid (£10m), Cunningham (£4m), Smithies (£3.5m), Bacuna (£3m), Murphy (£11m),Flint (£6m), Whyte (£2m), Pacl (£750k), Glatzel (£5.5m), Vaulks (£2.1m), Vassell (£2m). Actually that's about £60m if the Pack fee is right.

    Not many of those have been exceptional or even good for us, about 5 of them can't get a game, and Flint and Murphy are OK but are they worth the fee? We don't seem to pick up players any more then be able to profit from them , either by having good performances on the pitch or selling one (Zohore being one exception). Plus the gambles last season on loans of Camarasa, Arter and Niasse, only one of whom played well.

    Unfortunately our 'friends' down West have spent shedfulls too but sold a load of players for big fees to keep them going.

    How much would we get back for ours listed above. Some will be released at the end of the season (Bogle, Ward, Tomlin). Two of those were deemed not good enough not long after we signed them and sent out on loans, now we want them as first choices. It shows how far backwards we have gone, so to be where we are and 6 points of the top is no bad.

    We need someone in who can do what Dave Jones did, sign - in his words 'waifs and strays' and get them to perform and then sell them on for big fees, Loovens, Johnson, Chopra etc.
    The number of players discarded before they have hardly kicked a ball in anger is a disgrace. Not all signings are going to be a success but weve spent millions on players who have been deemed surplus to requirements before the ink has barely dried on them signing the contract. Will Vaulks being the latest player to receive such poor treatment.

  16. #46

    Re: Right then...managerial options

    Quote Originally Posted by J R Hartley View Post
    The number of players discarded before they have hardly kicked a ball in anger is a disgrace. Not all signings are going to be a success but weve spent millions on players who have been deemed surplus to requirements before the ink has barely dried on them signing the contract. Will Vaulks being the latest player to receive such poor treatment.
    BuT hE haD a ShOcKeR aGainSt REadInG

  17. #47

    Re: Right then...managerial options

    Quote Originally Posted by J R Hartley View Post
    The number of players discarded before they have hardly kicked a ball in anger is a disgrace. Not all signings are going to be a success but weve spent millions on players who have been deemed surplus to requirements before the ink has barely dried on them signing the contract. Will Vaulks being the latest player to receive such poor treatment.
    Exactly. I know managers have their favourites but I have never seen a City manager have so many non-favourites.

  18. #48

    Re: Right then...managerial options

    Quote Originally Posted by cardiff55 View Post
    Exactly. I know managers have their favourites but I have never seen a City manager have so many non-favourites.
    Does anyone in "authority" at the club question any of his decisions ? Why the high rate of expensive mistakes in the transfer market ? Why are expensive signings only getting occasional games in the U23s ? Why do we have to offload a very expensive signing on loan ? Who are these Mackay brothers ? amongst other questions......

    The Trust recently published details on who some of the mysterious names that are, supposedly, Board Members and the the only ones who appeared to have any credibility were VT, KC and MD who are on the transfer committee plus Steve Borley. Of all those names it is VT is the one with all the power and if an experienced operator like NW gets his ear to the exclusion of everyone else then he can get leeway to do as he sees fit with the money provided. So far, as has been stated, a lot of money appears to have been wasted. Where are the checks and balances ? As NW was not able to keep us in the Premier League for more than one season we only get 2 years parachute payments not 3. it seems as if the first tranche of year 1 parachute payments has not been spent wisely. Do we give him carte blanche in January in the final months of his contract ? That prospect worries me.

  19. #49

    Re: Right then...managerial options

    Quote Originally Posted by Enoch Mort View Post
    We have a transfer committee of 4. I would expect that a budget is allocated which is reasonable enough. It is acknowledged that 3 of them know little enough about football so, in my view, any failings in the system at the moment is down to NW and the scouting system. NW will determine what sort of player he wants and, I imagine our scouts (whoever they are) will report on whose available, NW chooses (within a budget) and the player is signed.

    It would be interesting to know who has the biggest input into the player remuneration. If NW sees the potential player personally salary is bound to be a (if not the) major factor.

    It seems to me that any “decent” manager who comes here is going to find that he has, probably within a budget, free rein. I wonder where the “checks and balances” are ?
    The transfer committee goes at least back to Ole's reign here circa 5 years ago. Think it gives them too easy a ride to suggest that in 5 years they haven't picked up anything regarding evaluating players or what makes a good transfer.

    I expect the club to have learnt from several mistakes pre-Warnock, and during Warnock's reign if you believe Dalman's quote about being caught off guard by how much prep needed for a season in the premier league, and there will be a plan being put into place for what happens next. If there isn't a plan at all then I'd say Warnock's time here and this season will look very different in hindsight.

  20. #50

    Re: Right then...managerial options

    Quote Originally Posted by LeningradCowboy View Post
    It's going to be Bamba with Blackwell and Jepson. We all know it.
    Some would say that bringing in someone who knows the club, is a strong character and has shown they're thoughtful (in an intelligent way rather than in an Ian Holloway way) about the game would be an ideal appointment. Isn't that basically what Chelsea have done with Frank Lampard?

    The club simply must use this year - what is likely to be a midtable year - to really understand and prepare for what they want to happen next.

  21. #51

    Re: Right then...managerial options

    Quote Originally Posted by surge View Post
    Some would say that bringing in someone who knows the club, is a strong character and has shown they're thoughtful (in an intelligent way rather than in an Ian Holloway way) about the game would be an ideal appointment. Isn't that basically what Chelsea have done with Frank Lampard?

    The club simply must use this year - what is likely to be a midtable year - to really understand and prepare for what they want to happen next.
    Warnock shouldn’t have anything to do with choosing the new manager.

    3 names worth considering- mike Flynn, gareth ainsworth and Carl Robinson.

    All 3 have proved they can managed and worked really hard at their clubs. I just don’t want a lazy appointment like Trollope was.

  22. #52

    Re: Right then...managerial options

    Mick McCarthy to offer us a transition phase for a few seasons.

  23. #53

    Re: Right then...managerial options

    Quote Originally Posted by OurManFlint II View Post
    Mick McCarthy to offer us a transition phase for a few seasons.
    No.

  24. #54

    Re: Right then...managerial options

    Quote Originally Posted by cardiff55 View Post
    Our transfer policy has to be the worst in the top two divisions, even worse than Fulham. I think NW has spent £57m on transfer fees (approx) since he's been here and we have no value in our team especially. He did well with free transfers and out of contract players like Bamba, Hoilett, NML and Etheridge were excellent, when he actually spends money it is awful. Paterson has been decent though.

    Tomlin (£1.6m), Ward (£1.6m), Bogle (£750k), Paterson (£425k), Madine (£6m), Reid (£10m), Cunningham (£4m), Smithies (£3.5m), Bacuna (£3m), Murphy (£11m),Flint (£6m), Whyte (£2m), Pacl (£750k), Glatzel (£5.5m), Vaulks (£2.1m), Vassell (£2m). Actually that's about £60m if the Pack fee is right.

    Not many of those have been exceptional or even good for us, about 5 of them can't get a game, and Flint and Murphy are OK but are they worth the fee? We don't seem to pick up players any more then be able to profit from them , either by having good performances on the pitch or selling one (Zohore being one exception). Plus the gambles last season on loans of Camarasa, Arter and Niasse, only one of whom played well.

    Unfortunately our 'friends' down West have spent shedfulls too but sold a load of players for big fees to keep them going.

    How much would we get back for ours listed above. Some will be released at the end of the season (Bogle, Ward, Tomlin). Two of those were deemed not good enough not long after we signed them and sent out on loans, now we want them as first choices. It shows how far backwards we have gone, so to be where we are and 6 points of the top is no bad.

    We need someone in who can do what Dave Jones did, sign - in his words 'waifs and strays' and get them to perform and then sell them on for big fees, Loovens, Johnson, Chopra etc.
    Do we really want to go back to those days, whereby as soon as we signed someone more than useful the vultures were circling and we were forced to sell because we didnt have a pot to piss in?

    I'd certainly like us to be signing the likes of the forementioned players, rather than the crocks & stiffs that Warnock seems to favour, but I would like us to build upon such players and not sell all the time, as we have done in the past.

  25. #55

    Re: Right then...managerial options

    Quote Originally Posted by Rock_Flock_of_Five View Post
    Do we really want to go back to those days, whereby as soon as we signed someone more than useful the vultures were circling and we were forced to sell because we didnt have a pot to piss in?

    I'd certainly like us to be signing the likes of the forementioned players, rather than the crocks & stiffs that Warnock seems to favour, but I would like us to build upon such players and not sell all the time, as we have done in the past.
    Well we’ve at least got a pot to piss in now, so I don’t think that’s a worry.

    I think when you’re outside the elite you’ll always have the vultures waiting, look at Brentford for example always seem to be selling players.

    Obviously we’d like to keep them and build so I agree there.

  26. #56

    Re: Right then...managerial options

    Quote Originally Posted by Rock_Flock_of_Five View Post
    Do we really want to go back to those days, whereby as soon as we signed someone more than useful the vultures were circling and we were forced to sell because we didnt have a pot to piss in?

    I'd certainly like us to be signing the likes of the forementioned players, rather than the crocks & stiffs that Warnock seems to favour, but I would like us to build upon such players and not sell all the time, as we have done in the past.
    No I didn't mean that, but for the club's finances it's clearly better to pay a decent fee and when we sell on make a profit or at least break even. Under Warnock we have just spent money madly and would struggle to get half of it back. So many of his signings have proved to be not good enough. like I said fans are now clamouring for the inclusion of Ward, Bogle, Tomlin and Bamba, and even accepting that Bacuna has a regular place in midfield. two seasons ago that would have been unthought of, except for Bamba of course.

    Although to be fair Warnock doesn't seem very tolerant of players if they don't perform- Tomlin and Bogle quickly sent out on loan within months of signing for us. Now glazed has finally been dropped and Ward gets the noid , with Bogle to come on late in the game. It's just we have too many players underperforming at the moment. Only a few have been consistent this season, Etheridge, Smithies, Ralls and Peltier (consistently good that is!).

    But we got out money back and maybe made a small profit on Reid when he eventually goes to Fulham. I suppose the fees on Ward, Bogle and Tomlin are not that big and will be written off when they go. But Glatzell and Madine were £11.5m and I doubt we'd get much back for either of them. I wouldn't be surprised if Glaztel returns to Germany iN January, he doesn't look as though he is enjoying himself.

  27. #57

    Re: Right then...managerial options

    Quote Originally Posted by dembethewarrior View Post
    Well we’ve at least got a pot to piss in now, so I don’t think that’s a worry.

    I think when you’re outside the elite you’ll always have the vultures waiting, look at Brentford for example always seem to be selling players.

    Obviously we’d like to keep them and build so I agree there.
    Agree but the pot has been diminished by Warnock's poor spending. And we now have to pay for Sala so I expect he'll have to unload a few before he gets replacements. We are mid table and need a decent run now until January, which would maybe let the owner invest even more?

  28. #58

    Re: Right then...managerial options

    Chris Hughton for me

  29. #59

    Re: Right then...managerial options

    How about Andy Legg ????

  30. #60

    Re: Right then...managerial options

    Quote Originally Posted by Rjk View Post
    If Southampton go on a bad run and sack hassenhuttl (sp?) Then I would definitely have him here
    0-7

    He could be available sooner than you think

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