Bellamy - Parents demand to see Cardiff bullying probe.

[blue matt]

Little Jimmy's parents thought he was world class.
Cardiff City thought he was shite.
Cardiff tried to push him. He was still shite.
Parents disagreed and blamed the club for the way they pushed him, as he's so good he didn't need pushing.
Jimmy cried, parents complained.

( puts football coach hat on ) no player is every shite, they just need more development that others

( takes football coach hat off )

[Tuerto]

Quality post

Now we’re getting somewhere

What blue matt is saying is bullshit. The culture has changed and thank God. There were people complaining when laws were brought in that stopped 8 year olds climbing up chimneys, and then later when the education act was brought in, it's not acceptable now to single out kids and make them the butt of jokes infont of their peers, which is what bullying is. You can still be critical as the education system shows, you can still show dissatisfaction and disappointment, you just can't get personal or make a kid feel like shit because he's had a poor game, it doesn't work.

The people who seem to be surmising on this subject were probably not in such a high pressure situation at such a young age, in short they know **** all. And **** all on how a young persons mind works and how they respond, experts without a shred of education or training.

Nobody likes being singled out, it doesn't make you stronger, it makes a person cynical and scared to make mistakes, it then leads to isolation and anxiety in some people. Imagine that at 16 years of age 200 miles from home without your family around you. I'd love to know how some of you would react if it was one of your kids.

[Croesy Blue]

Quality post

Now we’re getting somewhere

If all that's true how did the club's own report find evidence of bullying?

This all "he's oldschool" is such a bullshit excuse, would anyone be happy with a teacher in school being an arse hole to their kid because they're oldschoool?

Times have changed and people have discovered that people learn things better in a safe environment where they aren't treated like shit. No one is saying constructive criticism is bad, but acting like an arse to kids it.

[dembethewarrior]

This is a hot topic in the youth football world, i was at a football coach CPD on Wednesday ( another day off with no pay, but hey ho ), I am pushing myself in the girls coaching world, I'm enjoying it and running with it, One of the coaches who is involved with Swindon youth recognised my accent and we got chatting that i was a long way from home etc etc ( its not actually that far, but it was a ice breaker from him ) anyways, we got around to Cardiff city and its academy set-up, another 2 development officer joins in the convo ( this time from Bristol City and Liverpool )

The popular opinion from them was that Bellars made it in the game and was coached the old fashioned way, todays children need to be treated differently, every single one of them will believe they are going to make it big in the game, parents will think the same, the coaching team have to run with it, its 100% positive, the scouser said they need to be treated all the same and we need to accept you cannot criticise them, Now sometimes playing a elite sport these players need to be told they are not doing something right, its a fine line and something people will struggle with ( alot like in society these days )

One of them has come accross Bellers at academy games and said he came across very well, a true professional

Good post. Guess it’s all about how you put your point across in these threads.

I think it’s obvious to all that Craig wears his heart on his sleeve and jumps straight in and is fully committed. Do I personally have issue with those methods? No.
But as you point out, it’s the way that all clubs are these days.

I don’t think a little Bellamy is wrong, but would I **** send my kid to a session with Jeppo and Blackie either, so I suppose the issue is where do you draw the line? I suppose you need black and white drawn up rules.

I’ll let the drunk dinosaurs argue over the rest.

[dembethewarrior]

Quality post

Now we’re getting somewhere

Someone agreeing with you doesn’t mean the thread is going somewhere

[BLUETIT]

Gone shopping, see you in a few hours, unless tipping point is on

[dembethewarrior]

Gone shopping, see you in a few hours, unless tipping point is on

Good idea. Got a film to finish before my grub finishes cooking.

[the other bob wilson]

This is a hot topic in the youth football world, i was at a football coach CPD on Wednesday ( another day off with no pay, but hey ho ), I am pushing myself in the girls coaching world, I'm enjoying it and running with it, One of the coaches who is involved with Swindon youth recognised my accent and we got chatting that i was a long way from home etc etc ( its not actually that far, but it was a ice breaker from him ) anyways, we got around to Cardiff city and its academy set-up, another 2 development officer joins in the convo ( this time from Bristol City and Liverpool )

The popular opinion from them was that Bellars made it in the game and was coached the old fashioned way, todays children need to be treated differently, every single one of them will believe they are going to make it big in the game, parents will think the same, the coaching team have to run with it, its 100% positive, the scouser said they need to be treated all the same and we need to accept you cannot criticise them, Now sometimes playing a elite sport these players need to be told they are not doing something right, its a fine line and something people will struggle with ( alot like in society these days )

One of them has come accross Bellers at academy games and said he came across very well, a true professional

Interesting stuff, thanks for that. I'm a bit confused though because you say that the coaches you were speaking to were saying that Craig Bellamy was a product of the "old school" and that he came across very well "a true professional", but then it sounds as if they were saying that the old school approach does not work with today's young players. You say the scouser said "we need to accept that you cannot criticise them" - was he implying that this was a bad thing?

Based on what we know of Craig Bellamy, I think most of us would agree that he might have a problem adjusting with to an approach like the one you were told about, but I'd like to think that he was articulate and intelligent enough to realise that it was something he would have to do if he was to make a successful coaching/managerial career for himself.

However, as I said in the first thread on this subject last week, even if Craig Bellamy was guilty of bullying, it seems to me that he represents a bit of a convenient scapegoat for the club - my understanding is that the problems at Cardiff go deeper than just one man and, based on what you were told, some of the stuff being said to seven and eight year olds is completely out of sync with modern day attitudes to the coaching of young footballers.

[lardy]

What blue matt is saying is bullshit. The culture has changed and thank God. There were people complaining when laws were brought in that stopped 8 year olds climbing up chimneys, and then later when the education act was brought in, it's not acceptable now to single out kids and make them the butt of jokes infont of their peers, which is what bullying is. You can still be critical as the education system shows, you can still show dissatisfaction and disappointment, you just can't get personal or make a kid feel like shit because he's had a poor game, it doesn't work.

The people who seem to be surmising on this subject were probably not in such a high pressure situation at such a young age, in short they know **** all. And **** all on how a young persons mind works and how they respond, experts without a shred of education or training.

Nobody likes being singled out, it doesn't make you stronger, it makes a person cynical and scared to make mistakes, it then leads to isolation and anxiety in some people. Imagine that at 16 years of age 200 miles from home without your family around you. I'd love to know how some of you would react if it was one of your kids.

The same people who get upset by a 16 year old Swedish schoolgirl are the ones who think the youth players should man up and take it on the chin.

[dembethewarrior]

The same people who get upset by a 16 year old Swedish schoolgirl are the ones who think the youth players should man up and take it on the chin.

[blue matt]

What blue matt is saying is bullshit. The culture has changed and thank God. There were people complaining when laws were brought in that stopped 8 year olds climbing up chimneys, and then later when the education act was brought in, it's not acceptable now to single out kids and make them the butt of jokes infont of their peers, which is what bullying is. You can still be critical as the education system shows, you can still show dissatisfaction and disappointment, you just can't get personal or make a kid feel like shit because he's had a poor game, it doesn't work.

The people who seem to be surmising on this subject were probably not in such a high pressure situation at such a young age, in short they know **** all. And **** all on how a young persons mind works and how they respond, experts without a shred of education or training.

Nobody likes being singled out, it doesn't make you stronger, it makes a person cynical and scared to make mistakes, it then leads to isolation and anxiety in some people. Imagine that at 16 years of age 200 miles from home without your family around you. I'd love to know how some of you would react if it was one of your kids.

what part of my post is bullshit ? ? ? ?

as i pointed out that coaching has changed, you appear to be stating the same point

[binman]

Bellamy was watching a game last season my boy was involved in (he was watching the other side who were about to play his academy side) - he was extremely complimentary to our lot, polite and had time for the boys.

I also met him after the red promotion season when all the players were together and he seemed a right horrible arrogant so and so.

I'm guessing he could be a bit of both but thought he needed to be the latter when it came to his profession - I also guess it didn't work.

[blue matt]

Good post. Guess it’s all about how you put your point across in these threads.

I think it’s obvious to all that Craig wears his heart on his sleeve and jumps straight in and is fully committed. Do I personally have issue with those methods? No.
But as you point out, it’s the way that all clubs are these days.

I don’t think a little Bellamy is wrong, but would I **** send my kid to a session with Jeppo and Blackie either, so I suppose the issue is where do you draw the line? I suppose you need black and white drawn up rules.

I’ll let the drunk dinosaurs argue over the rest.

as i said, coaching has changed, its 100 % positive these days, infact 2 local girls teams in my league have adopted the " silent sideline " ( which the FA coaching mentor's appear to love )

[dembethewarrior]

as i said, coaching has changed, its 100 % positive these days, infact 2 local girls teams in my league have adopted the " silent sideline " ( which the FA coaching mentor's appear to love )

Yeah my mate coaches an amateur league side and they also help out with the kids, y put be got to be different these days, although quite a few of them even at a young age don’t mind a “joke”

[blue matt]

Interesting stuff, thanks for that. I'm a bit confused though because you say that the coaches you were speaking to were saying that Craig Bellamy was a product of the "old school" and that he came across very well "a true professional", but then it sounds as if they were saying that the old school approach does not work with today's young players. You say the scouser said "we need to accept that you cannot criticise them" - was he implying that this was a bad thing?

I think todays " older coaches " accept that the old ways worked then, these days they dont, they are just not transferable over the generations

the guy who had met CB, did speak highly of him and said he was professional,

I took the scouser as meaning things have changed, what worked in the past with young players are now not acceptable, i didnt push him for what it a good or bad thing, he is a FA coach mentor and works around the country, so my guess he official line would be its for the better and old style coaches need to cotton on and accept that

would I have CB come and coach my girls team, 100% YES, the guy will know more about football than i ever will, infact I have a coach who comes and helps out sometimes, he coaches 2 local boys teams and is well known as a good coach, he also does GK coaching, now when he comes and coaches, my daughter loves it, he teaches her the technical side of the game, she laps up the info, but it wasnt always like that, when she began, he was on to her all the time, infact at times in the van on the way home she would cry that he was at her all the time, after a few weeks i spoke to him about it, he said " Oh i see promise in her and she wants to learn, so i am putting my effort into her " ( and he was ) , he didnt bother with some of the girls who arsed around, I explained this to my daughter and she accepted it, she still moans occasionally and she will give it back to him now, but he just cannot change

when this guy coaches , We always get 1 or 2 messages that he upset so-and-so, I explain that he is only doing it to improve the girls games, so get that, some dont

[Croesy Blue]

Yeah my mate coaches an amateur league side and they also help out with the kids, y put be got to be different these days, although quite a few of them even at a young age don’t mind a “joke”

The problem is some adults can't see the difference between a joke and bullying.

[dembethewarrior]

The problem is some adults can't see the difference between a joke and bullying.

Of course, we are talking at a local level here with kids that are familiar with the adults.

[B. Oddie]

Incidentally, does anyone here have kids who play football and if so, how emotionally involved do you get?

I know you're involved in the girls' team BlueMatt, but I meant you're own flesh and blood.

[Wales-Bales]

I don't understand why the football clubs are getting involved with children at such a young age, as its only the odd player here and there who actually make it. Some world class talents have developed outside of the professional game, and only joined an established club when they were around +- 16 y.o.

[Tuerto]

I don't understand why the football clubs are getting involved with children at such a young age, as its only the odd player here and there who actually make it. Some world class talents have developed outside of the professional game, and only joined an established club when they were around +- 16 y.o.

I reckon that coaching 5-10 year olds is an absolute joke. There must be money involved for the club.

[Wales-Bales]

I reckon that coaching 5-10 year olds is an absolute joke. There must be money involved for the club.

The standard of football in the local age-group leagues has always been fairly good, with some decent coaches giving their time freely. Expectation was managed, as it was only the very best players who rose to the top and got noticed, and they usually got invited to trials at their local clubs after being spotted by scouts.

The less talented kids got to play with other less talented kids in the B, C or D team, and they either stuck with it because they liked football or they moved onto something else.

Fast-forward to the present day, and thousands of parents think their child is going to be the next global superstar, which is laughable since only a tiny percentage ever make it into the senior squad. Given these harsh realities, it's not surprising in a multi-billion pound industry that the thought of compensation might rear it's ugly head at some point.

[Tuerto]

The standard of football in the local age-group leagues has always been fairly good, with some decent coaches giving their time freely. Expectation was managed, as it was only the very best players who rose to the top and got noticed, and they usually got invited to trials at their local clubs after being spotted by scouts.

The less talented kids got to play with other less talented kids in the B, C or D team, and they either stuck with it because they liked football or they moved onto something else.

Fast-forward to the present day, and thousands of parents think their child is going to be the next global superstar, which is laughable since such a tiny percentage even make it into the senior squad. Given these harsh realities, it's not surprising in a multi-billion pound industry that the thought of compensation might rear it's ugly head at some point.

The first two paragraphs i agree entirely, the filter system was already in place. I'm not so sure about the final paragraph, i don't think that parents think that their child is going to become a superstar, of course they may be biased, but if what you're saying is true then wouldn't we be seeing alot more of these situations arising with parents and clubs? I think the main difference now is that parents are much more involved with their kids interests, some of them make a social life on the back of their kids and it's not very healthy in my opinion. When i was training with the club three nights a week i'd get the bus down to the ground from school, sometimes my dad would meet me afterwards(filled with a few pints of Dark) and we'd get the bus home. There is more interest from parents although i don't think that it'll lead to compensation claims. Most people just don't have the time.

[Wales-Bales]

The first two paragraphs i agree entirely, the filter system was already in place. I'm not so sure about the final paragraph, i don't think that parents think that their child is going to become a superstar, of course they may be biased, but if what you're saying is true then wouldn't we be seeing alot more of these situations arising with parents and clubs? I think the main difference now is that parents are much more involved with their kids interests, some of them make a social life on the back of their kids and it's not very healthy in my opinion. When i was training with the club three nights a week i'd get the bus down to the ground from school, sometimes my dad would meet me afterwards(filled with a few pints of Dark) and we'd get the bus home. There is more interest from parents although i don't think that it'll lead to compensation claims. Most people just don't have the time.

The point I am trying to make is that they have been sold the dream, which statistically is never going to happen. Most of these kids would be better served playing for a local league team and letting nature take its natural course. I've watched quite a few local youth team games and the technical standard has been pretty good, except it doesn't come with the prestige of being associated with a professional club, and failure isn't such a big deal.

[The Lone Gunman]

I wonder if the 2 young so called players, made the grade, or are they now working in MacDonalds ????

Maybe they're fitting double glazing?

[The Lone Gunman]

Pretty sure he said he wasnt subject of any proceedings.

How could somebody who is no longer a club employee be subject to the club's employee disciplinary procedure?