Bellamy - Parents demand to see Cardiff bullying probe.

[Wales-Bales]

The point I am trying to make is that they have been sold the dream, which statistically is never going to happen. Most of these kids would be better served playing for a local league team and letting nature take its natural course. I've watched quite a few local youth team games and the technical standard has been pretty good, except it doesn't come with the prestige of being associated with a professional club, and failure isn't such a big deal.

Maybe I should have used the word expectation instead of prestige.

[splott parker]

Maybe they're fitting double glazing?

I saw right through that reply

[blue matt]

Incidentally, does anyone here have kids who play football and if so, how emotionally involved do you get?

I know you're involved in the girls' team BlueMatt, but I meant you're own flesh and blood.

My Daughter plays for my team ( its how i got dragged into it )

I can speak from 2 camps

When i was just a dad who took his daughter, i was very emotionally involved, it was just like going down the city, if its a football, you want your team to win, its important, otherwise, dont play
I remember, last game of the season ( i was just a helper then, you know setup, pack away, i had done my 1st coaching badge, but hadnt taken the team over ), we were 3 -1 up with 3 mins to go, going to win our 1st game of the season, my daughter was dead on her feet, she had ran herself into the ground, the manager asked me and the other guy who now runs it with me " shall we take these 3 players off and sub them with X Y Z " ( now X Y Z were the players who needed more development, the 3 he was going to take off were dead BUT we knew would still run and would still give 100% more than X Y Z ), i replied " we are 2 up with 3 mins to go, leave the team alone, we have got this " he took them off and them 3 players meant we were 7 V 4 and we conceded 2 goals and drew, i was fumming, my daughter was really cheesed off, i walked off to pack away the goal and couldnt even talk to the manager, he came over and i said " you cost us that game, you fooking threw it away " . so yes you get involved and as i said, if its not important to win, then dont play

the guy handed the team over to me and my other coach ( another dad ) in June, I have no hard feelings to the bloke and we are all going for a curry tomorrow night, infact he has started a U10 girls team and trains next to us, he comes and watches up play games


Now from a coaches point of view, I will be honest, as you can see above, i struggled as just a dad watching the game, now imagine i spend 3 and 1/2 hours coaching these girls a week, I see what they do in training, we have set-up the team to play to certain players strengths, its not a regular setup, we have a decent GK, 3 Decent CB ( we can play 2 at a time ), 2 really strong players who we play CDM and CAM, then the rest we play as LM and RM who run up and down the line as wing backs, its a great setup as at this standard most play comes down the middle and our CDM and CAM deal with it all, so we train well, then get on the pitch and the LM and RM just stand on the center line and dont work, despite only 15 hours ago we were training and they were great at it

of course as coaches we have to try and follow the FA guidelines, everything positive etc etc, but as i said above, if you play the game, play the game to win or dont bother, but of course that isnt the grassroot ethos, its meant to be fun ( its more fun winning ), its meant to include everyone ( which we do )

so you can see the dilemma, now this is bottom of the ladder stuff, real grassroot, now look at the academy / dev centres / JPL stuff, now these players have been told they are the best of the best, parents are told little johnny is going to make it, so parents are pushing hard, something isnt going to work out

[blue matt]

I reckon that coaching 5-10 year olds is an absolute joke. There must be money involved for the club.

I watch Southampton Dev / academy children play at Bath STV, the place is rammed, the massive field is just full of small pitches

I know on certain days they have over 200 boys playing at the STV, now these all pay good money, all have to have the Southampton kit and training gear , its a nice little earner and if it picks up just 1 player every year, its a winner, as its earning the club money

[blue matt]

The point I am trying to make is that they have been sold the dream, which statistically is never going to happen. Most of these kids would be better served playing for a local league team and letting nature take its natural course. I've watched quite a few local youth team games and the technical standard has been pretty good, except it doesn't come with the prestige of being associated with a professional club, and failure isn't such a big deal.

100 % right

the JPL isnt helping with this either

at this CPD on wednesday, one of the coaches run a dev team, its somewhere between the grassroot league and the JPL, they play other Dev teams, now its a great idea, its 1/2 way house type of thing, He asked me would my daughter like to come along to give it a try, now he sold it as its good training and preparation for playing in the JPL, she liked the idea of another training session and the option / idea of playing in the JPL didnt bother her, she loves playing with her team, now you can see a child / parent getting overly excited and bang, game on, son is going to be playing in the EPL in a few years, pressure is on

[Tuerto]

I watch Southampton Dev / academy children play at Bath STV, the place is rammed, the massive field is just full of small pitches

I know on certain days they have over 200 boys playing at the STV, now these all pay good money, all have to have the Southampton kit and training gear , its a nice little earner and if it picks up just 1 player every year, its a winner, as its earning the club money

Fair enough. I owe you an apology for saying that your post was bullshit-i didn't agree with some of it but there was no need for me to say that.

[blue matt]

However, as I said in the first thread on this subject last week, even if Craig Bellamy was guilty of bullying, it seems to me that he represents a bit of a convenient scapegoat for the club - my understanding is that the problems at Cardiff go deeper than just one man and, based on what you were told, some of the stuff being said to seven and eight year olds is completely out of sync with modern day attitudes to the coaching of young footballers.

Sorry, I missed this bit

It wouldnt surprise me that is goes on at most clubs, when you get to a certain standard then its tough, you are pushed, and pushed some more, of course, some will not cope with that and pack it in, some will tough is out and hope for the end result they started the journey for, this must apply to the parents aswell, i can only imagine it must be easy as a parent to look for a scapegoat if your son doesnt make it, afterall, we all love to blame others

I have mentioned it before, my oldest plays netball to a elite standard ( thats what its called ), the pressure she is put under is immense, even to a point that she has a " food plan " and when we go on holidays for more than 1 week, she has a fitness plan and is encouraged to use a hotel gym , she is 16

I have occasionally asked the question do we put young children under too much pressure these days ? ? ? i think we do

[blue matt]

Fair enough. I owe you an apology for saying that your post was bullshit-i didn't agree with some of it but there was no need for me to say that.

fair enough, Its only my opinion, we all have them

[the other bob wilson]

Sorry, I missed this bit

It wouldnt surprise me that is goes on at most clubs, when you get to a certain standard then its tough, you are pushed, and pushed some more, of course, some will not cope with that and pack it in, some will tough is out and hope for the end result they started the journey for, this must apply to the parents aswell, i can only imagine it must be easy as a parent to look for a scapegoat if your son doesnt make it, afterall, we all love to blame others

I have mentioned it before, my oldest plays netball to a elite standard ( thats what its called ), the pressure she is put under is immense, even to a point that she has a " food plan " and when we go on holidays for more than 1 week, she has a fitness plan and is encouraged to use a hotel gym , she is 16

I have occasionally asked the question do we put young children under too much pressure these days ? ? ? i think we do

I think the important words in your message are "when you get to a certain standard". I get entirely that a first team professional footballer would probably get it in the neck from quite a few of their team mates if they opted to let someone go past them rather than "take one for the team", but there's a world of difference between playing the game as an adult and as a seven or eight year old.

I often qualify what I say with a "in my opinion", but I won't do when I say that seven and eight year olds being told to "smash em" and "take skin", as I'm reliably informed they are by some coaching staff at City's Academy, has to be wrong.

I'm not saying you are condoning this because you may not have seen the message where I said this in another thread, but the fact that only one person so far has replied being critical of this approach has me beginning to think it's me who is wrong and most people on here don't have a problem with it.

[blue matt]

I think the important words in your message are "when you get to a certain standard". I get entirely that a first team professional footballer would probably get it in the neck from quite a few of their team mates if they opted to let someone go past them rather than "take one for the team", but there's a world of difference between playing the game as an adult and as a seven or eight year old.

I often qualify what I say with a "in my opinion", but I won't do when I say that seven and eight year olds being told to "smash em" and "take skin", as I'm reliably informed they are by some coaching staff at City's Academy, has to be wrong.

I'm not saying you are condoning this because you may not have seen the message where I said this in another thread, but the fact that only one person so far has replied being critical of this approach has me beginning to think it's me who is wrong and most people on here don't have a problem with it.

Oh, i didnt mention the " smash em " and " take skin" bits as of course its 100% wrong, i find it unbelievable that any coach would say that, the game has moved on, now for any youth coach to say it, they need to be removed from being a coach and take a long hard look at themselves

I have a story from last year, we were playing a local team who were 3rd in the league, they were winning about 8 or 9 - 0 against us, they had a girl in goals who was shouting at the coach i want to come out and " get at them " , anyways with about 5 mins to go, she was " let out " and ran around like a rabid dog kicking players, sliding 2 footed tackles, we had 2 players go off injured, the parents were cheering on every tackle / foul she made, the blokes were shouting " get into them ", at the end i walked over to have a chat with them and to check the girl was upto date with her rabies shot ( just incase ) i spoke to the coach who said " the ref lost control ", we both knew the coach should have pulled her off as she was wild

totally uncalled for and i said if it happened this year, we would tell the girls to walk off the pitch

[Jimmy the Jock]

Little Jimmy's parents thought he was world class.
Cardiff City thought he was shite.
Cardiff tried to push him. He was still shite.
Parents disagreed and blamed the club for the way they pushed him, as he's so good he didn't need pushing.
Jimmy cried, parents complained.

You are getting close.


There were some politics after that.