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Thread: Jewish group walks away from Labour

  1. #1

    Jewish group walks away from Labour

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a9178326.html

    Most people see voting for labour as dangerous because it would put a lunatic into 10 Downing Street, or because it would extend the Parliamentry stalling tactics on Brexit.

    Easy to ignore the even more important issue of anti semitism, but I'm glad to see that Jews have made a clear indication that they won't be victimised again without protest.

    Imagine a British government with open anti Semitic tendencies, which insists upon the nation being subordinate to the Germans in the EU.

  2. #2

    Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour

    Quote Originally Posted by RonnieBird View Post
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a9178326.html

    Most people see voting for labour as dangerous because it would put a lunatic into 10 Downing Street, or because it would extend the Parliamentry stalling tactics on Brexit.

    Easy to ignore the even more important issue of anti semitism, but I'm glad to see that Jews have made a clear indication that they won't be victimised again without protest.

    Imagine a British government with open anti Semitic tendencies, which insists upon the nation being subordinate to the Germans in the EU.
    What antisemitic tendencies are you referring to?

  3. #3
    International jon1959's Avatar
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    Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour

    Quote Originally Posted by RonnieBird View Post
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a9178326.html

    Most people see voting for labour as dangerous because it would put a lunatic into 10 Downing Street, or because it would extend the Parliamentry stalling tactics on Brexit.

    Easy to ignore the even more important issue of anti semitism, but I'm glad to see that Jews have made a clear indication that they won't be victimised again without protest.

    Imagine a British government with open anti Semitic tendencies, which insists upon the nation being subordinate to the Germans in the EU.
    Displaying your usual arrogance by claiming to know what 'most people' think.

    And ignoring (again) the facts, the evidence, the serious analysis, that show Labour has less of a problem with anti-semitism than other parties (especially the one currently in government), has done more to tackle it, and has anti-racism at the core of its values.

    Then jumping on the unsurprising decision by the JLM to cherry pick which candidates to support. The JLM has always been a Zionist organisation (therefore hostile to the many figures in Labour, like Corbyn, who are anti-Zionist) and has strong ties to the Israeli Labour Party (who for similar reasons denounced Corbyn). But it is not a mass membership affiliate (although it's decision will have an impact), it is not the only Labour Jewish affiiate (Jewish Voice For Labour and others take a diametrically opposite view - but get labelled as 'the wrong sort of Jews'), and its stance continues to look like weaponising anti-semitism in the cause of a Labour civil war, and organised campaign to silence supporters of BDS and Palestinian rights.

  4. #4

    Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour

    Quote Originally Posted by jon1959 View Post
    Displaying your usual arrogance by claiming to know what 'most people' think.

    And ignoring (again) the facts, the evidence, the serious analysis, that show Labour has less of a problem with anti-semitism than other parties (especially the one currently in government), has done more to tackle it, and has anti-racism at the core of its values.

    Then jumping on the unsurprising decision by the JLM to cherry pick which candidates to support. The JLM has always been a Zionist organisation (therefore hostile to the many figures in Labour, like Corbyn, who are anti-Zionist) and has strong ties to the Israeli Labour Party (who for similar reasons denounced Corbyn). But it is not a mass membership affiliate (although it's decision will have an impact), it is not the only Labour Jewish affiiate (Jewish Voice For Labour and others take a diametrically opposite view - but get labelled as 'the wrong sort of Jews'), and its stance continues to look like weaponising anti-semitism in the cause of a Labour civil war, and organised campaign to silence supporters of BDS and Palestinian rights.


    In short you blame the Jews then. They’re making it up because they’re plotting against Labour and obstructing the soviet paradise you envisage

  5. #5
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    Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour

    Quote Originally Posted by RonnieBird View Post
    In short you blame the Jews then. They’re making it up because they’re plotting against Labour and obstructing the soviet paradise you envisage
    In short - no.

    You are the one conflating the opinions of all Jews with those of a small Labour affiliate organisation with strong links to an Israeli party.

    You are the one who appears to ignore Jewish organisations and opinion that doesn't match your own.

    I am giving you my own opinion - based on 3 years of following every twist and turn of the anti-semitism story - that alongside real instances of anti-semitism in Labour there is also a cynical campaign to undermine the Labour leadership and gag those voices speaking up for Palestinian rights. A campaign that is international, but uses organisations and prominent individuals from within the Labour tent, to feed a compliant media. A disproportionate number of Jewish people have been labelled anti-semites (in my opinion most of them are pro-Palestinian anti-Zionists). Most of the Jewish organisations and individuals who dispute parts of the orchestrated campaign are ignored or abused as a result (the wrong type of Jews). There is a Jewish saying 'put two Jews in a room and they will have three opinions' That is worth holding onto with this situation too.

    I grew up reading the books of Leon Uris and admiring the kibbutz movement as a template for what a collaborative society could be like. I now admire progressive Jewish activists more than ever, but see the Israeli state as an apartheid state based on institutionalised racism (on the back of mass murder and ethnic cleansing). Apologists for that state - including many of the people and organisations that you and LOM seem to rate so highly - share responsibility for that continuing and deepening racism and oppression.

    So I blame the anti-semites who certainly exist in Labour, but for the exaggerations, distortions and cynical misuse of a real problem I blame those who are using this crisis for other reasons - to dump Corbyn and deflect criticism of Israel. I think they undermine the fight against anti-semitism and I think they are often acting in defence of Israeli racism. No 'soviet paradise' involved.

  6. #6

    Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour

    Doesn't fit the context of this thread but is Khazar related. It happened in 2014 too. This time instead of most closing, all are.

    Israeli embassies around the world shut as diplomats, military attachés strike: https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel...taches-strike/

  7. #7

    Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour

    You do know that Hitler said something strikingly similar in Mein Kampf don't you ?
    No , you probably didn't .

    I don't accuse you of this evil, you are merely captivated by a clever speaker who promises you a glorious workers paradise and you've become carried away with the fervour of this swivel eyed monster.
    You cannot be diverted from your fanatical devotion to the cause , but if we learned anything from the last incarnation of it - from making Jews the scapegoat of society and creating a bogey man to blame for holding back the workers - it is that decent men must speak out against it before it takes root.

  8. #8

    Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour

    Dilley is an odd name for a Zionist

  9. #9

    Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour

    Very sad that decent Jewish Labour folk feel so marginalised, I'm sure other parties have thier own issues with certain culture's and it's wrong , the independent investigations by the Met Police and Equality and Human Rights Commision , dozens of suspensions for outspoken anti semitism views Jewish MP's resigning .

    I'm sure somone made it up though and its a conspiracy, best I get that in before the insults flow towards me ?

  10. #10

    Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    Very sad that decent Jewish Labour folk feel so marginalised, I'm sure other parties have thier own issues with certain culture's and it's wrong , the independent investigations by the Met Police and Equality and Human Rights Commision , dozens of suspensions for outspoken anti semitism views Jewish MP's resigning .

    I'm sure somone made it up though and its a conspiracy, best I get that in before the insults flow towards me ?
    Well done LOM you're starting to see sense. Keep up the good work and let's talk Tory Islamiphobia (or any other Tory phobia of people who aren't wealthy and privileged).

  11. #11

    Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour

    Quote Originally Posted by Dorcus View Post
    Well done LOM you're starting to see sense. Keep up the good work and let's talk Tory Islamiphobia (or any other Tory phobia of people who aren't wealthy and privileged).
    All phobias are poor . No smoke without fire in both parties .

  12. #12
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    Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour

    Quote Originally Posted by RonnieBird View Post
    You do know that Hitler said something strikingly similar in Mein Kampf don't you ?
    No , you probably didn't .

    I don't accuse you of this evil, you are merely captivated by a clever speaker who promises you a glorious workers paradise and you've become carried away with the fervour of this swivel eyed monster.
    You cannot be diverted from your fanatical devotion to the cause , but if we learned anything from the last incarnation of it - from making Jews the scapegoat of society and creating a bogey man to blame for holding back the workers - it is that decent men must speak out against it before it takes root.
    I don't know whether you are trying to respond tom me or Organ Morgan - but either way it is desperate stuff.

    Did Hitler say that the Israeli embassies will shut because of diplomat's strikes or did he say that they would continue to co-ordinate opposition to the BDS movement?

    Either way your claim to close knowledge of Mein Kampf looks as ropey as your claims on everything else. Give it up.

  13. #13

    Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour

    Quote Originally Posted by Dorcus View Post
    Dilley is an odd name for a Zionist

    It's not my name, but I can see how you thought you'd worked that out.
    Seriously though, it's creepy that you tried and I hope you don't make a habit of that sort of thing because it's frowned upon you know .

  14. #14

    Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour

    Quote Originally Posted by jon1959 View Post
    I don't know whether you are trying to respond tom me or Organ Morgan - but either way it is desperate stuff.

    Did Hitler say that the Israeli embassies will shut because of diplomat's strikes or did he say that they would continue to co-ordinate opposition to the BDS movement?

    Either way your claim to close knowledge of Mein Kampf looks as ropey as your claims on everything else. Give it up.

    He said he used to admire Jews because they are a clever people and that he'd read Jewish authors. However, he accused them of trying to further their agenda by falsely accusing the Nazis of anti semitism.

  15. #15
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    Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour

    Quote Originally Posted by RonnieBird View Post
    He said he used to admire Jews because they are a clever people and that he'd read Jewish authors. However, he accused them of trying to further their agenda by falsely accusing the Nazis of anti semitism.
    You do appear to be very lame brained, despite all your claims to intellectual superiority. That or just a cynical troll - not sure which.

    I am not making any claims about Jewish people as a whole - you are. I am making some specific claims (based on experience and following political developments over my lifetime, but especially over the past 3/4 years) about a number of individuals and organisations who have exploited a real problem to make political capital. I am also saying that Jewish people are disproportionately the victims of a media witch-hunt against alleged anti-semites in Labour. I know some of those people and think their treatment and characterisation to be despicable. They have fallen foul of a new definition of anti-semitism that equates criticism of Zionism or the Israeli state with racism. That is the view you are propagating.

    If you are going to constantly equate the actions of the state of Israel with the views of Jewish people worldwide (and project that ant-semitic trope back on Jeremy Corbyn and the Labour Party) there is no point in continuing this excuse for a debate!

  16. #16

    Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour

    Wish you wouldn't do this childish name calling, and there's no debate actually.
    There's a Jewish saying that some people don't know the difference between something that's real and something that's just an idea, and I think you're proving that.
    It doesn't matter how much you deny or defend it, and it doesn't matter what I think as an individual. What matters here, because it is real, is that a lot of Jewish people think labour is anti Semitic and fear the growth of another persecution when they hear excuses instead of seeing action. Similarly, a lot of moderate Gentiles are concerned about the growing rantings about Israel.

    You say you base your claims on political developments. Well I base my opinion upon the feeling of the Jewish community as often expressed in private. Surprisingly they often have some regard for a country created as a safe homeland after the last genocide and they don't believe it when people happen to pick on the only Jewish country in the world when they don't mention other far worse countries in their rantings. They are not a stupid race.

    Paradoxically, the sort of talk you propound makes Israel stronger. It increases financial and other support from Jews who fear that it might be called upon to defend them in the face of this new hysteria. Make no mistake , there will be no capitulation or hesitation this time and the moment this evil thing rises again it will be answered in kind. Nor will the USA be slow to react this time if Jews are harmed in Europe and I believe that President Trump would act immediately to support any rescue or evacuation by the IDF.

  17. #17

    Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour




  18. #18

    Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour

    Quote Originally Posted by RonnieBird View Post
    It's not my name, but I can see how you thought you'd worked that out.
    Seriously though, it's creepy that you tried and I hope you don't make a habit of that sort of thing because it's frowned upon you know .
    I have many habits Philip and I guess your type would frown upon all of them. Are you also Jewish and have personal grudges to bear here? You don't seem to be able to grasp the point that not all Jews are Zionists and not all disown Labour or indeed believe the propaganda set against the party. Jon59 has explained this expertly and repeatedly.

  19. #19

    Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour

    Am I Jewish ?
    My TYPE !
    When you say grudges, do you mean the holocaust ?

    Maybe not all Jews are Zionist , (most are), but they all know that Israel needs to be strong militarily when there is this growing anti semitism and we hear all the old fake justifications.

  20. #20

    Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour

    Quote Originally Posted by RonnieBird View Post
    Am I Jewish ?
    My TYPE !
    When you say grudges, do you mean the holocaust ?

    Maybe not all Jews are Zionist , (most are), but they all know that Israel needs to be strong militarily when there is this growing anti semitism and we hear all the old fake justifications.
    No I wasn't referring to the Holocaust

  21. #21

    Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour


  22. #22

    Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour

    Quote Originally Posted by Dorcus View Post
    No I wasn't referring to the Holocaust

    Weren't you ? Really ?
    At least we know where you stand

  23. #23
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    Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour


  24. #24
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    Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour


  25. #25

    Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour

    More deflection. It's about much more than politics if you want to go after a race and your politics will not justify it or excuse it.
    Why not find some clips from Germany in the 1930's or Oswald Mosley claiming that it's a political difference ?
    We've heard it all before.

  26. #26

    Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour

    Quote Originally Posted by RonnieBird View Post
    Weren't you ? Really ?
    At least we know where you stand
    Really? Where do I stand Philip? By the way what is your opinion of the Armenian holocaust perpetrated by Turkey?

  27. #27

    Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour

    Quote Originally Posted by RonnieBird View Post
    More deflection. It's about much more than politics if you want to go after a race and your politics will not justify it or excuse it.
    Why not find some clips from Germany in the 1930's or Oswald Mosley claiming that it's a political difference ?
    We've heard it all before.
    I wonder if Noam Chomsky is just the wrong kind of Jew?

  28. #28
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    Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour

    Quote Originally Posted by RonnieBird View Post
    More deflection. It's about much more than politics if you want to go after a race and your politics will not justify it or excuse it.
    Why not find some clips from Germany in the 1930's or Oswald Mosley claiming that it's a political difference ?
    We've heard it all before.
    You are a piece of work aren't you? There is no deflection in countering your conflation of anti-Zionism with anti-semitism. And you are the one who is deliberately equating criticism of the Israeli state's political ideology and policies with Judaism (whether defined by race, religion, culture or ethnicity). The only person in this thread to 'go after a race' is you with your anti-semitic tropes and comparing modern anti-Zionist Jews (orthodox, liberal, socialist and others) with Nazis.

    We have indeed heard all that before, and it stinks! It also works, which is the real shame. It distracts from the real rise of anti-semitic hatred and attacks especially in Europe and North America - mainly fed by right-wing populists (who really do look for inspiration to the 1930s fascists), but it also gags Palestinians and their supporters and feeds a false story to the various Jewish communities in this country and beyond.

    The shame and absurdity of your position is when non-Jewish members of organisations like the Labour Friends Of Israel or the Jewish Labour Movement (which encourages non-Jewish membership unlike the Jewish Voice For Labour) denounce a Jewish survivor of the Auchwitz concentration camp as an anti-semite because of his opposition to Israeli settler colonialism - partly to smear Corbyn by association.

  29. #29

    Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour

    “Piece of work “ now is it ?
    Your friend was talking about “my sort “

    The clue to your fake position of being reasonable is the use of dehumanising language. It reminds me so much of nazi speeches, trying to sound rational but unable to use derogatory terms for their intended victims.

    It also reminds me of the civil rights movement in the USA when racists would quote “uncle Tom” black men who were prepared to defend segregation.

    As I said, we’ve heard it before and it’s interesting that we hear it now from the group here who try to gang up on people they disagree with. Some have a latent mob mentality and that can be extremely ugly

  30. #30

    Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    Very sad that decent Jewish Labour folk feel so marginalised, I'm sure other parties have thier own issues with certain culture's and it's wrong , the independent investigations by the Met Police and Equality and Human Rights Commision , dozens of suspensions for outspoken anti semitism views Jewish MP's resigning .

    I'm sure somone made it up though and its a conspiracy, best I get that in before the insults flow towards me ?
    Either they are trying to deal with the issue or they aren't.

    You can't simultaneously adopt the position that they aren't trying to deal with it whilst evidencing the problem by pointing to the number of suspensions there have been.

    I know what the response will be, they aren't doing 'enough' but it is meaningless.

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