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Thread: Jewish group walks away from Labour

  1. #76

    Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour

    Two who've been unmasked trying to divert by unsubstantiated nasty insults.
    It's as simple as that !

    Fatetur facinus qui judicium fugit

  2. #77

    Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour

    Someone's been busy googling Black's Law Dictionary lol

  3. #78

    Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour

    Again insults not arguments !

  4. #79

    Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour

    I note that some love to stick to the magic 6 million figure hereabout in spite of the fact that the 1945 Soviet guesstimates of 4 million deaths at the Auschwitz labour camp being revised down to 1 million and Majdanek's original 1.5 million dropping to 78k. Alternatively the Soviets were accurate and the Polish government are anti-Semites.

    The Red Cross' grand total for deaths at German labour camps was 271k. It's a wonder some European governments don't attempt to prosecute them for Holohoax, er, Holocaust denial.



  5. #80

    Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour

    Quote Originally Posted by Organ Morgan. View Post
    I note that some love to stick to the magic 6 million figure hereabout in spite of the fact that the 1945 Soviet guesstimates of 4 million deaths at the Auschwitz labour camp being revised down to 1 million and Majdanek's original 1.5 million dropping to 78k. Alternatively the Soviets were accurate and the Polish government are anti-Semites.

    The Red Cross' grand total for deaths at German labour camps was 271k. It's a wonder some European governments don't attempt to prosecute them for Holohoax, er, Holocaust denial.




    These are things which people should be free to discuss and I've never agreed with this idea of "holocaust denial" being banned because it impinges freedom of speech and might give the impression there's something to hide.
    I still think this,although when I witness the thinly veiled bloodlust by some here, ( not you), I can at least understand why people react by trying to silence such a dangerous philosophy.

    Who knows the real numbers, but it was certainly a very bad thing which we don't want to let happen again.

    I'd have my own comments about the matter but I'm not going to post them here because there are one or two who would attempt to use any small historical error to justify their race hate.

  6. #81

    Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour

    Quote Originally Posted by Organ Morgan. View Post
    I note that some love to stick to the magic 6 million figure hereabout in spite of the fact that the 1945 Soviet guesstimates of 4 million deaths at the Auschwitz labour camp being revised down to 1 million and Majdanek's original 1.5 million dropping to 78k. Alternatively the Soviets were accurate and the Polish government are anti-Semites.

    The Red Cross' grand total for deaths at German labour camps was 271k. It's a wonder some European governments don't attempt to prosecute them for Holohoax, er, Holocaust denial.


    I think one death in a gas oven, and knowing that one death is too many .

  7. #82

    Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour

    https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/s...-labo-1.490891


    https://www.timesofisrael.com/polls-...te-for-labour/


    Here are a couple of articles to show exactly how serious the problem is for labour .
    Apparently 93% of Jews won't vote labour , and if anyone's read the comments by two posters here ,I expect the remaining 7% might be reconsidering

  8. #83

    Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour

    Official statistics estimate there to be under 300000 Jewish people living in England and Wales, that equates to about .53% of the population.

    Given that possibly a third of those are children, not all will refuse to vote Labour and that the vast majority are concentrated in a select few Tory leaning constituencies, will it make any material difference to the overall result of the election if these people choose not to vote Labour?

    Also, given that the overwhelming majority live in these Tory leaning constituencies then for tactical reasons it will probably help the cause immensely if they vote Lib Dem, assuming that as previous Labour voters they would baulk at voting Tory.

    Hooray we might be able to get rid of this dreadful Government at last.

  9. #84

    Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour

    Ronnie, what is your opinion on Islamophobia amongst those parties that support Brexit most strongly?

  10. #85

    Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour

    Well in general Eric I'm not a fan of chasing people about perceived racism, but anti semitism is a special case because those who do it can take it to another level very quickly. There's a big difference between regular racism and something which draws its devotees to genocide.
    I don't know much about islamophobia , but the name suggests being against a religion rather than a race. Just noticed that you associate it with Brexit , but I don't know why.

  11. #86

    Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour

    Quote Originally Posted by Dorcus View Post
    Official statistics estimate there to be under 300000 Jewish people living in England and Wales, that equates to about .53% of the population.

    Given that possibly a third of those are children, not all will refuse to vote Labour and that the vast majority are concentrated in a select few Tory leaning constituencies, will it make any material difference to the overall result of the election if these people choose not to vote Labour?

    Also, given that the overwhelming majority live in these Tory leaning constituencies then for tactical reasons it will probably help the cause immensely if they vote Lib Dem, assuming that as previous Labour voters they would baulk at voting Tory.

    Hooray we might be able to get rid of this dreadful Government at last.

    Interesting that you've been studying the demographics and keeping a list of where Jews live.

    I think the point is that most decent people of all religions and cultures will refuse to support the marginalisation of Jews. Perhaps I am wrong - it happened in Germany - but I hope Britain is different in this respect

  12. #87
    Heisenberg
    Guest

    Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour

    RonnieB... You don't half spout a large amount of shite, don't you?

    Making out that you didn't think Corbyn made those comments event though you referred to him (and other comments he has previously made) throughout your response.

    You also have the audacity to accuse others of being racist and anti-Semitic to divert attention away from yourself. The only anti-Semitic language used on this board recently had been by life on mars - but he gets a pass from you because he's in your "gang".

    Didn't you previously say that using the "racism" card was all people could use when losing an argument. Maybe you were thinking of yourself there and projecting it onto others.

    I've now been accused by you of being anti-Semitic with no evidence (it's beyond laughable to accuse me of any form of racism) and by another poster of being a rapist apologist. Both times it's because of you digging yourselves into a hole and can't debate your way out of it.

    You don't like to be challenged and accuse others of trying to "silence" you when it happens. Very typical of a few posters on here.

    I used to find your lack of self-awareness funny, to be honest, but you've crossed a line now like the other poster did. I blocked him and now I'm blocking you. It's simply impossible to engage with someone as lost as you are and there's no enjoyment to gain from mocking you anymore.

  13. #88

    Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour

    Ronnie I have been through this argument I'd leave it , the arguments and reasons are well known ,the investigations are proving that at least the old defense arguments , are changing from the old days of ""ooooh its just old disgruntled Blairites kicking off "".

    I'm sure there is Islamophobia with parties including the Tories we know Ironically it exists it quite a few some Labour Brextiers and in society .

    The differences between two parties , Labour has admitted it exists in its deputy , and has said it need to be dealt with ,staff members at there HQ have been TV interviewed , the police and
    EHRC are independently Investigating it .



    That's all one can say really ,ones opinions have been superseded by actual events and facts all under investigation.

  14. #89

    Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour

    Heisenberg.........


    No, I referred to Corbyns comments from the outset. You then posted something about Nigel Farage saying something else. The two were never confused and if you think I said I didn't know Corbyn made the original comment I suggest that you read over it.

    Similarly, it wasn't you I was referring to as being anti Semitic but if the cap fits wear it I suppose.
    I often had to advise clients not to deny things until they'd been accused of them because it's a bit of a giveaway isn't it ?

    You haven't really blocked me of course, but you can't really answer any of that now without showing out. Not very bright is it ?

  15. #90

    Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    Ronnie I have been through this argument I'd leave it , the arguments and reasons are well known ,the investigations are proving that at least the old defense arguments , are changing from the old days of ""ooooh its just old disgruntled Blairites kicking off "".

    I'm sure there is Islamophobia with parties including the Tories we know Ironically it exists it quite a few some Labour Brextiers and in society .

    The differences between two parties , Labour has admitted it exists in its deputy , and has said it need to be dealt with ,staff members at there HQ have been TV interviewed , the police and
    EHRC are independently Investigating it .



    That's all one can say really ,ones opinions have been superseded by actual events and facts all under investigation.


    Yes, well actually I know an ex Lambeth labour councillor who's privately nuts about Moslems so I'm sure that's not confined to any party and indeed nor is anti semitism.
    As you say, the difference is when one party denies/ justifies it, when it's so widespread that it needs official investigations to be launched, and when grass roots labour voters jump in to deny/ justify the problem .

  16. #91

    Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour

    Is it Israel that is behind all this trying to discredit Labour thing that seems to be going on ?

  17. #92

    Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour

    Quote Originally Posted by trampie09 View Post
    Is it Israel that is behind all this trying to discredit Labour thing that seems to be going on ?
    I think you've hit the nail on the head Trampie; to me this feels like it's got Binjamin Netanjahu's fingerprints all over it. I wonder if our friend Ronnie is a secret Mossad agent?

  18. #93

    Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour

    Quote Originally Posted by Dorcus View Post
    I think you've hit the nail on the head Trampie; to me this feels like it's got Binjamin Netanjahu's fingerprints all over it. I wonder if our friend Ronnie is a secret Mossad agent?
    Yes and I also wonder, lol.

  19. #94

    Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour

    Quote Originally Posted by Dorcus View Post
    I think you've hit the nail on the head Trampie; to me this feels like it's got Binjamin Netanjahu's fingerprints all over it. I wonder if our friend Ronnie is a secret Mossad agent?
    Third rate wind up merchant is my bet but I only see a fraction of his nonsense so you could be right!

  20. #95

    Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    Ronnie I have been through this argument I'd leave it , the arguments and reasons are well known ,the investigations are proving that at least the old defense arguments , are changing from the old days of ""ooooh its just old disgruntled Blairites kicking off "".

    I'm sure there is Islamophobia with parties including the Tories we know Ironically it exists it quite a few some Labour Brextiers and in society .

    The differences between two parties , Labour has admitted it exists in its deputy , and has said it need to be dealt with ,staff members at there HQ have been TV interviewed, the police and
    EHRC are independently Investigating it .



    That's all one can say really ,ones opinions have been superseded by actual events and facts all under investigation.
    This is where I lose your thread. The bit I have bolded (independent investigations aside), is that not a positive? The party have acknowledged it's existence as an issue and done almost everything they have been asked to do to try to fix it, maybe they aren't making the progress you would hope but every time you bring internal investigations and suspensions/expulsions up it seems to be as a stick to beat the leadership/party with when really it proves they are making attempts to tackle it.

  21. #96

    Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour

    Quote Originally Posted by RonnieBird View Post
    Heisenberg.........


    No, I referred to Corbyns comments from the outset. You then posted something about Nigel Farage saying something else. The two were never confused and if you think I said I didn't know Corbyn made the original comment I suggest that you read over it.

    Similarly, it wasn't you I was referring to as being anti Semitic but if the cap fits wear it I suppose.
    I often had to advise clients not to deny things until they'd been accused of them because it's a bit of a giveaway isn't it ?

    You haven't really blocked me of course, but you can't really answer any of that now without showing out. Not very bright is it ?
    What "clients" were those Phil? Were these on your newspaper round or when you were cleaning dustbins?

  22. #97

    Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour

    Quote Originally Posted by RonnieBird View Post
    These are things which people should be free to discuss and I've never agreed with this idea of "holocaust denial" being banned because it impinges freedom of speech and might give the impression there's something to hide.
    I still think this,although when I witness the thinly veiled bloodlust by some here, ( not you), I can at least understand why people react by trying to silence such a dangerous philosophy.

    Who knows the real numbers, but it was certainly a very bad thing which we don't want to let happen again.

    I'd have my own comments about the matter but I'm not going to post them here because there are one or two who would attempt to use any small historical error to justify their race hate.
    The irony of this whole thread is your position on Holocaust denial is perfectly aligned with Miko Peled. One of the original and major examples used across print media and TV of antisemitism within the Labour party (beyond random members and councillors tweeting nonsense) arose after Peled was given a platform at a labour fringe event.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics...rks-miko-peled

  23. #98

    Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour

    As I implied or said in that post, there's a difference between being tolerant of stuff for the sake of free speech and using it as a tool to inflame neo Nazis

  24. #99

    Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour

    Quote Originally Posted by Dorcus View Post
    What "clients" were those Phil? Were these on your newspaper round or when you were cleaning dustbins?

    So interesting that you speak of manual workers as if they're shit beneath your shoes - so typical of theoretical socialists .
    No, these were criminals - stalkers and such

  25. #100

    Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour

    Quote Originally Posted by Dorcus View Post
    I think you've hit the nail on the head Trampie; to me this feels like it's got Binjamin Netanjahu's fingerprints all over it. I wonder if our friend Ronnie is a secret Mossad agent?

    I don't think Mossad are likely to try and influence a football forum, they've got far more important work.

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