Warnock - "Cardiff must earn forgiveness"

[dembethewarrior]

Warnock is getting what he deserves.

He rode the positive vibes, we’ll the waves got rough so it’s about time he stood up and showed us what he can do. **** his little comments to the press, get back to us after 2 wins and a performance that looks like it’s worthy of being on a football pitch.

[SunderlandBluebird]

I fail to see how getting relegated equates to a season going well. This is exactly what is meant by Neil Warnock getting an easy ride from the media - while it is right to make allowances for the Sala tragedy, we had five points from our first ten games well before he was signed against a backdrop of our manager, with ample help from many in the local media, constantly playing the "plucky little Cardiff City" card.

Neil Warnock has had two, not three, good seasons with us and we currently sit nine places above where we were when he took over with him having been given more money to spend than any City manager with the possible exception of Malky Mackay. In his third season with us, all he did was give more ammunition to those who say he cannot manage in the top flight, but people still talk about him having "credit in the bank" at Cardiff - sorry, but I don't get the notion that such credit will only run out when we drop to 23rd in the Championship.

We were right in the mix until that Fulham game so I don't understand why he'd be getting a tough ride until that point? Unless people were expecting a comfortable 12th placed finish, we were kind of on par with where I expected us to be until late March, which was fighting for safety.

That Fulham game wound me right up so I didn't look at anything for a week after that but I would like to think he had questions to answer over bringing Rhys Healey etc on, starting Bobby Reid on the bench. You mention a poor start to the season in the Prem but I don't think many fans questioned Warnock at that point, so the media sticking with him wasn't against a backdrop of stick from the stands. It was pretty much in line with how the fans saw it, but people are now using it as a stick to beat him/the media with which is a bit of a strange one for me.

[Divine Wright]

**** me. State of some of your comments.

All well happy to give out banter but if he gives anything back you are all climbing over each other froffing at the mouth.

Relax, he will be gone soon enough and we can get on with being super ambitious again and playing beautiful one touch passing football.

1. He’s a football manager. Not some scrote on a message board.

2. It wasn’t “banter”.

[dembethewarrior]

1. He’s a football manager. Not some scrote on a message board.

2. It wasn’t “banter”.

Where’s that clapping smiley

[LeningradCowboy]

I fail to see how getting relegated equates to a season going well. This is exactly what is meant by Neil Warnock getting an easy ride from the media - while it is right to make allowances for the Sala tragedy, we had five points from our first ten games well before he was signed against a backdrop of our manager, with ample help from many in the local media, constantly playing the "plucky little Cardiff City" card.

Neil Warnock has had two, not three, good seasons with us and we currently sit nine places above where we were when he took over with him having been given more money to spend than any City manager with the possible exception of Malky Mackay. In his third season with us, all he did was give more ammunition to those who say he cannot manage in the top flight, but people still talk about him having "credit in the bank" at Cardiff - sorry, but I don't get the notion that such credit will only run out when we drop to 23rd in the Championship.

We were the only club in the Premier League last season with an average annual wage per player of less than £1 million (£957,471). Huddersfield were the next lowest with £1,238,000 and then Burnley with £1,603,197. When you take that into account then you have to say that we outperformed expectations by finishing 18th.

[Seabird]

In that interview he said he got the team selection wrong, the wrong formation. In that case why didn’t he change our shape, he had Bacuna on the bench. When he made his substitutions, he took a striker off and put a striker on, doesn’t make any sense to me.

[dembethewarrior]

In that interview he said he got the team selection wrong, the wrong formation. In that case why didn’t he change our shape, he had Bacuna on the bench. When he made his substitutions, he took a striker off and put a striker on, doesn’t make any sense to me.

The more you dig..

[Since62]

I don't think it's that Warnock doesn't grasp 'modern' football techniques and tactics - I'm pretty sure he's as knowledgeable as your Luigis and Francescos - it's just he believes, with a fair bit of historical justification, that the more often you get the ball into the opponent's penalty area the more likely you are to score. Trouble is this season we have players who aren't capable of doing that, or probably aren't happy doing that..

Whilst I disagree with your views on NW (and those others in the management team under him) grasping modern techniques , if you are correct about why he uses the approach you suggest then why did he spend a lot of money on players who were never going to fit into that system (Booby Reid, Lee Tomlin, Josh Murphy etc) and waste other money on players who he then doesn`t select (Cunningham, Madine, Vaulks etc) which was money he could have spent elsewhere to support his "plan"?

In addition to the above , a lot of money has been wasted on what seem to be very questionable levels of transfer fees , salary levels, exceptional length of contracts etc. on players such as Bacuna and Flint. I can understand the relatively cheap signing of Joe Day which now seems unnecessary as at the time everyone (including the player himself) thought Neil Etheridge was off to Aston Villa.

Also, why did he spend yet more money (and why the hell did the club`s directors let him) on two professional contracts given to two sons of a disgraced former football agent when those players were very clearly nowhere near Championship standard?

[dembethewarrior]

Whilst I disagree with your views on NW (and those others in the management team under him) grasping modern techniques , if you are correct about why he uses the approach you suggest then why did he spend a lot of money on players who were never going to fit into that system (Booby Reid, Lee Tomlin, Josh Murphy etc) and waste other money on players who he then doesn`t select (Cunningham, Madine, Vaulks etc) which was money he could have spent elsewhere to support his "plan"?

In addition to the above , a lot of money has been wasted on what seem to be very questionable levels of transfer fees , salary levels, exceptional length of contracts etc. on players such as Bacuna and Flint. I can understand the relatively cheap signing of Joe Day which now seems unnecessary as at the time everyone (including the player himself) thought Neil Etheridge was off to Aston Villa.

Also, why did he spend yet more money (and why the hell did the club`s directors let him) on two professional contracts given to two sons of a disgraced former football agent when those players were very clearly nowhere near Championship standard?

He hasn’t had to answer to any of that and he says he’s been given a hard time....

[Since62]

We were the only club in the Premier League last season with an average annual wage per player of less than £1 million (£957,471). Huddersfield were the next lowest with £1,238,000 and then Burnley with £1,603,197. When you take that into account then you have to say that we outperformed expectations by finishing 18th.

Are those figures estimates? If not, where do they come from as season 2018/19 accounts have not yet been published?

[dembethewarrior]

Are those figures estimates? If not, where do they come from as season 2018/19 accounts have not yet been published?

People know it all on these MBs.

[the other bob wilson]

Are those figures estimates? If not, where do they come from as season 2018/19 accounts have not yet been published?

Even if they are accurate, there are leagues all over the world, including the Premier League, which are full of sides who perform above their wage bill compared to others.

[Wales-Bales]

He’s lost me now. He can **** off.

Yeah, **** off now **** and ******* go **** ****.

[Stavross1927]

Are those figures estimates? If not, where do they come from as season 2018/19 accounts have not yet been published?

I think they are from a sporting intelligence website report, they seem pretty knowledgeable in sporting finances.

[Since62]

I think they are from a sporting intelligence website report, they seem pretty knowledgeable in sporting finances.

They might be , but where are the figures derived from by them as no accounts have been published for last season for any of the three clubs mentioned in the initial post?

[Stavross1927]

They might be , but where are the figures derived from by them as no accounts have been published for last season for any of the three clubs mentioned in the initial post?

https://globalsportssalaries.com/GSSS%202018.pdf

[Since62]

https://globalsportssalaries.com/GSSS%202018.pdf

Thanks.

Before looking at this post , I was actually looking at the Sports Intelligence website as well.

It seems that the figure listed for Cardiff City is that for player wages paid in season 2017/18 when we were a Championship side , so not comparable with the figures quoted for Huddersfield and Burnley who were Premier League sides.

Until the 2018/19 figures are published , we don`t know if Neil Warnock`s claim that we were the "poor boys" of the Premier League has any basis in fact or not.

[LeningradCowboy]

Thanks.

Before looking at this post , I was actually looking at the Sports Intelligence website as well.

It seems that the figure listed for Cardiff City is that for player wages paid in season 2017/18 when we were a Championship side , so not comparable with the figures quoted for Huddersfield and Burnley who were Premier League sides.

Until the 2018/19 figures are published , we don`t know if Neil Warnock`s claim that we were the "poor boys" of the Premier League has any basis in fact or not.

Page 53 of the report states that the figures are for the 2018/19 season.

[LeningradCowboy]

wages.jpg

[LeningradCowboy]

Even if they are accurate, there are leagues all over the world, including the Premier League, which are full of sides who perform above their wage bill compared to others.

We were paying average wages that were more than 20% lower than 19th-highest spending team and more than 40% lower than the 18th-highest spending team.

So it looks like Neil Warnock was actually quite justified in playing the 'plucky little Cardiff City' card, as you like to call it.

[Wales-Bales]

I liken Neil Warnock to a highly skilled aircraft engineer. The problem is he is highly skilled with Spitfires and Hurricanes while nearly all the other engineers have moved on to far more modern effective aircraft.
When pressed to modernise his views by bringing in more modern parts ( players) he doesn’t use them to create a more modern aircraft ( team) but just tries fitting them into the old aircraft he is familiar with where of course they simply don’t fit and most of them have to be expensively discarded.
Instead of then just switching to newer ideas he simply stubbornly sticks to his old fashioned ideas

You might be wright brother, but aren't spitfires a bit too modern for him?

[The Bob Banker Spanker]

You might be wright brother, but aren't spitfires a bit too modern for him?

Yes. With Warnock we’re talking Icarus’ wings.

[Since62]

Page 53 of the report states that the figures are for the 2018/19 season.

The report itself is dated 2018 so how would wages for 2018/19 be known? Or which players were signed or left in the January 19 transfer window?

[the other bob wilson]

We were paying average wages that were more than 20% lower than 19th-highest spending team and more than 40% lower than the 18th-highest spending team.

So it looks like Neil Warnock was actually quite justified in playing the 'plucky little Cardiff City' card, as you like to call it.

I'd be sure that those figures for last season were what you say they are before making claims like you are doing. What I said still applies and, anyway, the evidence of Neil Warnock's time at City tends to confirm something which probably applies throughout his career - he tends to do his.best work when finances are tough and he has small budget to work with. It started to go wrong for him here in the January 18 window when he spent £6 million on Madine and since then I don't think any of his buys for seven or eight figures could be called a complete success.. Notwithstanding the size of the wage bill, he's worked with, the amount spent in the transfer market in the last two years or so renders the "plucky little Cardiff City" stuff laughable.

[LeningradCowboy]

The report itself is dated 2018 so how would wages for 2018/19 be known? Or which players were signed or left in the January 19 transfer window?

Some important notes need to be made on methodology. The first six editions of this report, published annually from 2010 to 2015 inclusive, were released in Spring, usually April, and included salaries either for the ‘active’ or most recently completed season for each league at the time of publication.

For the European football leagues up to the 2015 report, completed seasons were used. But a wider knowledge base and more established access to better data gave us the confidence to use ‘live’ data for all the European football leagues from the GSSS 2016 onwards.

As the title of the report says, our numbers are compiled by survey. More accurately they are the result of an analysis and organisation of data either A) established as fact in those leagues where minutiae are in the public domain; or B) gathered by survey methods from a multitude of knowledgeable sources, more of which in a moment.

As ever, all the numbers can only ever be a snapshot of a situation at a point in time, whether the opening day of a season or the day after a transfer window has closed.

All figures (across all leagues) are sourced directly or indirectly from one or more of unions, player associations, players themselves, agents, leagues, clubs and / or club sources, and other reliable administrative bodies.

To be more specific, league by league, from the wealthiest league down: the NBA numbers are in the public domain, so too the IPL figures (via auctions, and club sources filling gaps) and the MLB numbers.

For the Premier League, and all the other European football leagues (in Spain, Germany, Italy, France, Scotland) we source a specific number for each and every individual player wherever possible, either from players themselves, their agents or other representatives, or club sources.

It is a painstaking exercise and the findings can, by a survey’s definition, only be as accurate as the information provided. There are ‘backstops’ however, including public domain sources, not all widely known, that give a good indication of general financial situations. And there are sources not in the public domain. One example: Sportingintelligence has undertaken consultancy and advisory work over a number of years for quantum claims (for loss of earnings in football, mostly because of injury) that has involved access to numerous player contracts, which can be corroborative. All data on individuals for the GSSS reports is gathered on a confidential basis - hence why we don’t publish individual player salary information.

From the 'Methodological Notes' section of the report.