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Thread: Electoral pacts

  1. #1
    International jon1959's Avatar
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    Electoral pacts

    Plenty of talk about Lib Dems, Greens and Plaid doing deals to give each other free runs in target seats (following on from the Brecon by-election where Plaid stood aside for the Lib Dems) but also a lot going on in Northern Ireland:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics...apon-live-news

    Loathing of Brexit united remainers and finally broke Northern Irelandís binary nationalist v unionist divide. Well, so it seemed for a few heady days.

    Last week Steve Aiken, the incoming leader of the Ulster Unionist party (UUP), upended convention by ruling out an electoral pact with the Democratic Unionist party (DUP). As an opponent of Brexit Aiken said he felt duty-bound to run candidates in all 18 constituencies to give pro-remain unionists an alternative to the DUP.

    Even in north Belfast, he said. Meaning Aiken was willing to split the unionist vote and give Sinn Feinís John Finucane a better chance of taking the seat from the DUPís deputy leader, Nigel Dodds.

    An audacious move that prompted swift backlash. Unionists inside and outside the UUP protested. Suspected loyalist paramilitaries threatened retaliation against the UUP.

    At the weekend Aiken caved and said his party would skip north Belfast, giving Dodds, the DUPís Brexit policy architect, a clear run at sweeping up unionists, be they leavers or remainers.

    The DUP, in turn, will give the UUP a clear run in the marginal seat of Fermanagh and south Tyrone.

    The moderate nationalist SDLP then announced it too would stand aside in north Belfast to boost Finucaneís chances. (See 12pm.) The stated reason is to let remain voters rally around a single candidate, even one who would abstain from Westminster. The other reason is to pressure Sinn Fein to stand aside in south Belfast and boost the SDLPís chance of nabbing the seat from the DUP.

    Unionism and nationalism, remain and leave, all simmering together in a Northern Irish stew.


    There will be more talk of electoral pacts this time than ever, but if Tories and Brexit don't do a deal (even a secret one) and the Labour and Lib Dem hostility remains at DefCom 4 I don't see much happening in practice.

  2. #2

    Re: Electoral pacts

    Interesting that after being unable to sort themselves out in three years over Brexit they're just as stuck on the subject of electoral tactics. It shows that dumbing down effects everyone ,including the rich socialists who rule over the commoners.

  3. #3
    International jon1959's Avatar
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    Re: Electoral pacts

    Sinn Fein to step aside in 3 seats, asking supporters to back SDLP, Alliance and independent Unionist against the DUP!

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics...apon-live-news

    Sinn Fein has announced it will not stand in three constituencies in Northern Ireland in a bid to prevent DUP MPs winning the seats. The party will stand aside in South Belfast, East Belfast and North Down. As the Press Association reports, Sinn Fein president Mary Lou McDonald urged supporters to instead back the SDLP, the Alliance party and independent unionist Lady Sylvia Hermon respectively in those three seats.

    Announcing the move, McDonald said:

    "In many ways this is a once-in-a-generation election, the stakes are very high in this election. People have a fundamental choice to make - to vote for a positive, inclusive future or to turn their backs on that and to back candidates who have been the architects of Brexit and who have acted very, very deliberately against the democratic wishes of people here in the north and more fundamentally against the economic and social interests of citizens who live here.

    "You can call this a pact, you can call it what you wish - the reality is we are asking people to come out and vote for those pro-Remain candidates. We believe that is the right and progressive thing to do.

    "It sits very comfortably with me to ask and invite voters to thoughtfully do the right thing. And in this case it means defying hard Brexiteers, the likes of Nigel Dodds, the likes of the DUP candidates who have very, very recklessly acted against the interests of everybody.

    "Whether you call yourself a unionist or a nationalist, a republican or a loyalist, we actually have many, many interests in common."



    Speculation in news reports today that Lib Dems and Greens will step aside for Plaid in Ynys Mon.

  4. #4

    Re: Electoral pacts

    Quote Originally Posted by jon1959 View Post
    Sinn Fein to step aside in 3 seats, asking supporters to back SDLP, Alliance and independent Unionist against the DUP!

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics...apon-live-news

    Sinn Fein has announced it will not stand in three constituencies in Northern Ireland in a bid to prevent DUP MPs winning the seats. The party will stand aside in South Belfast, East Belfast and North Down. As the Press Association reports, Sinn Fein president Mary Lou McDonald urged supporters to instead back the SDLP, the Alliance party and independent unionist Lady Sylvia Hermon respectively in those three seats.

    Announcing the move, McDonald said:

    "In many ways this is a once-in-a-generation election, the stakes are very high in this election. People have a fundamental choice to make - to vote for a positive, inclusive future or to turn their backs on that and to back candidates who have been the architects of Brexit and who have acted very, very deliberately against the democratic wishes of people here in the north and more fundamentally against the economic and social interests of citizens who live here.

    "You can call this a pact, you can call it what you wish - the reality is we are asking people to come out and vote for those pro-Remain candidates. We believe that is the right and progressive thing to do.

    "It sits very comfortably with me to ask and invite voters to thoughtfully do the right thing. And in this case it means defying hard Brexiteers, the likes of Nigel Dodds, the likes of the DUP candidates who have very, very recklessly acted against the interests of everybody.

    "Whether you call yourself a unionist or a nationalist, a republican or a loyalist, we actually have many, many interests in common."



    Speculation in news reports today that Lib Dems and Greens will step aside for Plaid in Ynys Mon.
    It's fantastic what Sinn Fein is doing in Northern Ireland in the name of Remain. Who could have thought the likes of Sylvia Hermon could possibly have the tacit backing of Republicans in the name of peace and prosperity.

    On the mainland the Remain Alliance is developing slowly. It's really good that Plaid, The Greens and Lib Dems are working in unison to thwart the Brexshit vote. However, as you stated the likelihood of any Lib Dem/ Labour alliance is remote indeed. It's a pity but party politics will never entirely retreat.

    Nevertheless I believe there is a growing awareness among large numbers of people of the huge importance of tactical voting in this election. Despite no official Lib Dem or Labour sanction it's probable many voters may take it upon themselves to give their backing to the candidate in their own constituencies with the best chance of beating the Tories. With this in mind, the Best For Britain website offers a brilliant aid for recommending the best Remain candidate to support in individual constituencies. I really hope everyone will take heed of its advice.

    I would have no hesitation in voting for anyone other than a Tory or Brexshit candidate. In my own constituency it turns out that the Labour candidate, my first choice, is Best For Britain's recommendation anyway. Even though I would have dearly loved a Labour majority government, if it's not possible everything must be done to ensure the Tories are denied their own majority otherwise the future is bleak indeed.

  5. #5

    Re: Electoral pacts

    The future is bleak for labour whichever way you cut it.
    Now I wouldn't ordinarily vote for the Conservatives either, but like a millions of others I will this time to get Brexit done and to help destroy anti semitism.
    Will you be voting for the Monster Raving Looney Stalker Party again ?

  6. #6

    Re: Electoral pacts

    Hats off to Sinn Fein reports say they are standing down in 3 seats and 1 of them is for a Unionist

  7. #7

    Re: Electoral pacts

    Quote Originally Posted by RonnieBird View Post
    The future is bleak for labour whichever way you cut it.
    Now I wouldn't ordinarily vote for the Conservatives either, but like a millions of others I will this time to get Brexit done and to help destroy anti semitism.
    Will you be voting for the Monster Raving Looney Stalker Party again ?
    Isnt that a vote for the wrong side as regards perceived anti-Semitism ?

  8. #8
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    Re: Electoral pacts

    So it's the globalists versus everybody else? I think I'm going to vote for the party who want to ship yet more jobs abroad

  9. #9

    Re: Electoral pacts

    Quote Originally Posted by trampie09 View Post
    Isnt that a vote for the wrong side as regards perceived anti-Semitism ?
    Why's that ?

  10. #10

    Re: Electoral pacts

    Quote Originally Posted by Wales-Bales View Post
    So it's the globalists versus everybody else? I think I'm going to vote for the party who want to ship yet more jobs abroad
    I think we could sum up the whole human struggle at this time in history as being that couldn't we ?
    The strange thing is that although the globalists themselves are small in number, the number of brainwashed idiots who unwittingly do their work is growing all the time

  11. #11

    Re: Electoral pacts

    Quote Originally Posted by RonnieBird View Post
    Why's that ?
    I read an article this morning by a Jew and he was basically saying that the left believe in equality and equal rights and if things turn against the Jews [I think that is paranoia mind you even to suggest that] that its the likes of Corbyn and his friends that would stick up for the Jews and not people on the other side of the political spectrum.
    I thought it an interesting article and then came across another one of the same ilk.

    I think dark forces are doing a number on Corbyn and Labour, I think a foreign power would rather somebody else in charge of the UK, somebody that is not as sympathetic to the Palestinian cause and these dark forces are trying to discredit Corbyn and Labour and no I don't do conspiracy theories.

  12. #12

    Re: Electoral pacts

    Quote Originally Posted by Dorcus View Post
    It's fantastic what Sinn Fein is doing in Northern Ireland in the name of Remain. Who could have thought the likes of Sylvia Hermon could possibly have the tacit backing of Republicans in the name of peace and prosperity.

    On the mainland the Remain Alliance is developing slowly. It's really good that Plaid, The Greens and Lib Dems are working in unison to thwart the Brexshit vote. However, as you stated the likelihood of any Lib Dem/ Labour alliance is remote indeed. It's a pity but party politics will never entirely retreat.

    Nevertheless I believe there is a growing awareness among large numbers of people of the huge importance of tactical voting in this election. Despite no official Lib Dem or Labour sanction it's probable many voters may take it upon themselves to give their backing to the candidate in their own constituencies with the best chance of beating the Tories. With this in mind, the Best For Britain website offers a brilliant aid for recommending the best Remain candidate to support in individual constituencies. I really hope everyone will take heed of its advice.

    I would have no hesitation in voting for anyone other than a Tory or Brexshit candidate. In my own constituency it turns out that the Labour candidate, my first choice, is Best For Britain's recommendation anyway. Even though I would have dearly loved a Labour majority government, if it's not possible everything must be done to ensure the Tories are denied their own majority otherwise the future is bleak indeed.
    Gosh yes, Hats off to those wonderful Sinn Fein chaps

  13. #13

    Re: Electoral pacts

    I wonder if the Tories and Brexit are keeping up a front and have a cunning covert pact plan ,old Mogg Dog and Nigel having a go at each other pretending to dislike ones policy .

  14. #14

    Re: Electoral pacts

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    Gosh yes, Hats off to those wonderful Sinn Fein chaps
    Absolutely, and don't forget the ladies too LOM

  15. #15
    International jon1959's Avatar
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    Re: Electoral pacts

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics...nomy-live-news

    The Liberal Democrats, Plaid Cymru and the Green Party have formed a general election pact, agreeing not to stand against each other in dozens of seats, the Press Association reports. The deal, brokered by the Unite to Remain group, will give voters a single remain choice in 60 constituencies across England and Wales. The group is confident that ďat least 44Ē of the 60 seats are ďhighly winnableĒ.

    As the Press Association reports, the move follows an agreement earlier this year in the Brecon and Radnorshire by-election, where the Lib Dems took the seat from the Conservatives after the other two parties stood aside.

    Heidi Allen, chairwoman of Unite To Remain and previously Lib Dem MP for South Cambridgeshire, said the cross-party arrangement was ďunprecedented in modern British political historyĒ.

    In total, the Lib Dems will stand in 43 constituencies, the Greens will stand in 10 and Plaid Cymru will stand in seven.

    At a press conference in London, Peter Dunphy, election strategist and a director at Unite to Remain, said: ďAt least 44 of those 60 can be regarded as highly winnable constituencies.Ē As PA reports, he said this evaluation is based on a wide range of data, including current national opinion polls, local election results and European elections.


    And...

    Bad news for Northern Irelandís remainers and good news for the Democratic Unionist party: Lady Sylvia Hermon has decided to step down as an MP.

    The independent unionist, Northern Irelandís sole pro-remain voice at Westminster, announced on Wednesday night that she is vacating her North Down seat.

    The decision dismayed remainers and greatly boosts the DUPís chances of taking the seat.

    Sinn Feinís abstention from Westminster meant Hermon was the only Northern Ireland MP to challenge the DUPís Brexiters and to represent the 56% of people who voted to stay in the EU.

  16. #16
    International jon1959's Avatar
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    Re: Electoral pacts

    And....

    The Green party in Northern Ireland has announced it will not stand in any of Belfast’s four constituencies in a bid to assist the election of pro-remain MPs, the Press Association reports. The party had already withdrawn from the South Belfast contest earlier this week to endorse the SDLP’s bid to unseat outgoing DUP MP Emma Little Pengelly.

  17. #17

    Re: Electoral pacts

    Shame the Lib Dems are involved in the pact announced today. I would probably have voted for the Green Party if they had not thrown their lot in with those closet tories from 2010 to 2015 who were calling themselves the party for left leaning voters before the Coalition came along.

  18. #18

    Re: Electoral pacts

    Apparently neither the Lib Dems nor Plaid will be standing in Vale of Glamorgan, which is Alun Cairn's seat

    Between them they won 3,315 votes in 2017 (2,295 for Plaid and 1,020 for Lib Dems), this would be enough votes for to push Labour over the line and unseat Cairns, in fact just the 2,295 votes Plaid received would be enough. The Greens won only 419 votes last time and the assumption that LD and PC voters will just back them when they have a chance to unseat a Tory is bizarre

    This has almost definitely been calculated to unseat Cairns, which will give Labour the seat

  19. #19

    Re: Electoral pacts

    Based on 2017 here's the maximum that Paid can get if all of the Green/LD voters switch

    Pontypridd - 6,000 (3rd)
    Llanelli - 8,000 (3rd)
    Dwyfor Meirionydd - 14,000 (1st)
    Arfon - 12,000 (1st)
    Ynys Mon - 11,000 (2nd)
    Carmarthen East and Dinefwr - 17,000 (1st)
    Caerphilly - 7,000 (3rd)

    The total votes of Lib Dems is fewer than 1,000 votes in all but one of these constituencies. The only place it would impact is Ynys Mon where they'd move from 3rd to 2nd and the only place where the Lib Dems stepping aside would have a genuine effect, Ceredigiong, sees both of them going head to head! Plaid are such a joke at times, what I'd give for us to have an SNP style nationalist force in Wales rather than this lot

  20. #20

    Re: Electoral pacts

    Quote Originally Posted by City123 View Post
    Plaid are such a joke at times, what I'd give for us to have an SNP style nationalist force in Wales rather than this lot
    This. We need a pro-Wales Party not obsessed with expensive language rules which has made austerity even worse. I am not against the Welsh Language but feel a slower pace approach to language take up should be taken. The money being thrown at it could be better spent helping those in genuine need.

  21. #21
    International jon1959's Avatar
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    Re: Electoral pacts

    Beware the allure of multilevel regression and post-stratification. It could all end in tears!

    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...neral-election

  22. #22

    Re: Electoral pacts

    Quote Originally Posted by jon1959 View Post
    Beware the allure of multilevel regression and post-stratification. It could all end in tears!

    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...neral-election
    And I thought this may prove a useful tool. Still, I hope people use their best judgements to vote tactically. The very last thing this country needs is a Tory majority; we may never come out the other side intact.

  23. #23

    Re: Electoral pacts

    Quote Originally Posted by Dorcus View Post
    And I thought this may prove a useful tool. Still, I hope people use their best judgements to vote tactically. The very last thing this country needs is a Tory majority; we may never come out the other side intact.
    Yes indeed.

  24. #24

    Re: Electoral pacts

    Quote Originally Posted by trampie09 View Post
    I read an article this morning by a Jew and he was basically saying that the left believe in equality and equal rights and if things turn against the Jews [I think that is paranoia mind you even to suggest that] that its the likes of Corbyn and his friends that would stick up for the Jews and not people on the other side of the political spectrum.
    I thought it an interesting article and then came across another one of the same ilk.

    I think dark forces are doing a number on Corbyn and Labour, I think a foreign power would rather somebody else in charge of the UK, somebody that is not as sympathetic to the Palestinian cause and these dark forces are trying to discredit Corbyn and Labour and no I don't do conspiracy theories.

    There are plenty of conspiracies which happen - that's how the world works. As a matter of fact Welsh Nationalism is a small part of one, but that's another subject.
    I'm personally satisfied that labour and Corbyn are anti Semitic , but that's my opinion and you may well take a different view.
    As far as foreign powers getting behind this or any other domestic cause which suits their geo political agenda - of course they will and do all the time.
    Haven't you noticed the disproportional coverage of the Hong Kong protests on the BBC ?

    Mind you, I think that labour would be ill advised to ignore the problem or try to claim that it's just the invention of Israel or the USA

  25. #25

    Re: Electoral pacts

    Quote Originally Posted by trampie09 View Post
    Yes indeed.
    And what will the better alternative be ?

  26. #26

    Re: Electoral pacts

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    And what will the better alternative be ?
    Whisper it gently ....JC of course! You know you wanna say it!

  27. #27

    Re: Electoral pacts

    Yeah, if you can't decide, trust the judgement of the mad stalker bloke !

  28. #28
    International jon1959's Avatar
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    Re: Electoral pacts

    Lib Dems stood down for Dominic Grieve in Beaconsfield - with some Labour supporters campaigning for him too!

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics...l-beaconsfield

  29. #29

    Re: Electoral pacts

    Very conservative constituency and the man is a traitor so let's hope gets hammered .

  30. #30

    Re: Electoral pacts

    In fact the conservative candidate , Joy Morrisey, is Jewish , so no surprise that labour are campaigning against her.

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