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Thread: Player recruitment and development

  1. #1

    Player recruitment and development

    While watching ex-City keeper Simon Moore playing for Sheffield United in the Premier League on Sunday, I wondered how many other former Cardiff players are currently plying their trade in the top flight, so I had a quick check this morning.

    As far as I can establish, there are only two players who have ever been at City on a permanent basis and are currently playing in the Premier League. They are both goalkeepers - Tom Heaton (Aston Villa) and Simon Moore.

    There are four more players currently on the books of Premier League clubs who have spent some time on loan at Cardiff in the past - Victor Camarasa (Crystal Palace), Danny Drinkwater (Burnley), Ravel Morrison (Sheffield United) and Wilfred Zaha (Crystal Palace).

    Six more ex-Bluebirds who played for City during the last ten years are currently operating in one of the other top European leagues - Fabio de Silva (Nantes, French Ligue 1), Bruno Manga (Dijon, French Ligue 1), Guido Burgstaller (Schalke 04, German Bundesliga), Marko Grujic (Hertha Berlin, German Bundesliga), Gary Medel (Bologna, Italian Serie A) and the much-maligned Andreas Cornelius (Parma, Italian Serie A).

    For a club that has been in either the top half of the Championship or the Premier League for almost all of the last ten years, I think the above is a damning indictment of the way in which City have recruited and developed players. Not only has the club failed to produce any top-class players of its own through its youth system during the last decade, but very few of the players it has signed from other clubs have developed into top-flight regulars either.

    With all due respect to the current crop of City players, I can't see any of them developing into Premier League performers, so the trend looks set to continue for a while yet.

  2. #2

    Re: Player recruitment and development

    You've missed out a few. Frederic Gounongbe recently scored a Champions' League hattrick for PSG, Yanis Wildschut is keeping Messi out of the Barcelona starting line up and Stuart O'Keefe recently turned down a 7 figure salary from an unknown club to stay at Juventus.

  3. #3

    Re: Player recruitment and development

    I wondered what had happened to Mats Daehli, as he was supposed to be the next Messi while he was here. Turns out he's with St Pauli in the German second division. They're in the bottom half of the table.

  4. #4

    Re: Player recruitment and development

    Rabbi Mattondo was poached from Citys youth system and got a multi million pound move to Germany

  5. #5

    Re: Player recruitment and development

    Quote Originally Posted by J R Hartley View Post
    Rabbi Mattondo was poached from Citys youth system and got a multi million pound move to Germany
    Yes I think we got £500k compensation for Matondo, and Man Citeh sold him for £7m!

  6. #6

    Re: Player recruitment and development

    Aaron Ramsey playing for one of the biggest clubs in Europe but I suppose that doesnt fit your agenda.

  7. #7

    Re: Player recruitment and development

    Quote Originally Posted by J R Hartley View Post
    Aaron Ramsey playing for one of the biggest clubs in Europe but I suppose that doesnt fit your agenda.
    Shut up you daft ****.

  8. #8

    Re: Player recruitment and development

    Quote Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman View Post
    Shut up you daft ****.
    Keep your hair on. Its a valid point. If youre going to make a list of ex City players plying their trade in the top leagues why cap it at "last decade"?

  9. #9

    Re: Player recruitment and development

    Quote Originally Posted by J R Hartley View Post
    Keep your hair on. Its a valid point. If youre going to make a list of ex City players plying their trade in the top leagues why cap it at "last decade"?
    Let's be honest, Aaron Ramsey is ancient history as far as City are concerned. He was sold in June 2008. The point I was trying to make is about the way the club has been operating in recent times. Obviously. And you can just **** off with the 'agenda' stuff.

  10. #10

    Re: Player recruitment and development

    Quote Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman View Post
    Let's be honest, Aaron Ramsey is ancient history as far as City are concerned. He was sold in June 2008. The point I was trying to make is about the way the club has operating in recent times. Obviously. And you can just **** off with the 'agenda' stuff.
    A point that has been made thousands of times on this forum alone in the last few years. I dont think you would find anyone arguing there has been no pathway for our youngsters, or that Warnocks transfer dealings have been any good. Apart from DML1954 maybe.

    Besides, we are a championship club and weve got many ex-players playing in the Championship, and also quite a few who come through the ranks at City. I dont know why you would expect to have a load of ex-City players operating at Premier League level.

    Weve got 3 players currently starring for the Wales under 19 set-up, and have been getting game time for Citys Under 23s recently. It will be interesting to see if they will be developed better than the age group above them who seem to have all been shifted out on loan to League of Wales clubs.

  11. #11

    Re: Player recruitment and development

    Quote Originally Posted by J R Hartley View Post
    Keep your hair on. Its a valid point. If youre going to make a list of ex City players plying their trade in the top leagues why cap it at "last decade"?
    He hasn't got any hair

  12. #12

    Re: Player recruitment and development

    Quote Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman View Post
    Let's be honest, Aaron Ramsey is ancient history as far as City are concerned. He was sold in June 2008. The point I was trying to make is about the way the club has been operating in recent times. Obviously. And you can just **** off with the 'agenda' stuff.
    Bloody hell keep your hair on !!

  13. #13

    Re: Player recruitment and development

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
    Bloody hell keep your hair on !!

  14. #14

    Re: Player recruitment and development

    Quote Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman View Post
    I wondered what had happened to Mats Daehli, as he was supposed to be the next Messi while he was here. Turns out he's with St Pauli in the German second division. They're in the bottom half of the table.
    It's quite interesting looking at his stats. I'm aware that he's had injury problems, but he's made 12 appearances for Norway in 5 years. In a poor 2nd tier German team, he's been substituted in almost half of his starts. Perhaps we can swap him for Tomlin....

  15. #15

    Re: Player recruitment and development

    Quote Originally Posted by cardiff55 View Post
    Yes I think we got £500k compensation for Matondo, and Man Citeh sold him for £7m!
    They sold him for £11m. He is part of a fairly long list of young players they took from smaller clubs and paid compensation for, then quickly sold on for big profits. The last list I saw totalled nearly £60m of fees in for them from this type of deal.

  16. #16

    Re: Player recruitment and development

    Quote Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman View Post
    Let's be honest, Aaron Ramsey is ancient history as far as City are concerned. He was sold in June 2008.
    Looking at players we sold/loaned etc between 2004-2011. These players moved to the Premier League or SPL or ended up playing at that level. I might have missed one or two.

    Kavanagh (played for Wigan in the PL)
    Earnshaw
    Collins
    Gabbidon
    Tony Warner
    Jerome
    Chopra
    Gunter
    Ramsey
    Loovens
    Flood
    Johnson
    Magennis
    Ledley
    Matthews

    Gives some sort of perspective.

  17. #17

    Re: Player recruitment and development

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee View Post
    Looking at players we sold/loaned etc between 2004-2011. These players moved to the Premier League or SPL or ended up playing at that level. I might have missed one or two.

    Kavanagh (played for Wigan in the PL)
    Earnshaw
    Collins
    Gabbidon
    Tony Warner
    Jerome
    Chopra
    Gunter
    Ramsey
    Loovens
    Flood
    Johnson
    Magennis
    Ledley
    Matthews

    Gives some sort of perspective.
    Very few of those had a Premier League / top level career. Gabbidon, Collins, Ledley and Ramsey.

  18. #18

    Re: Player recruitment and development

    It’s a bit like a league 1 club wondering why they’ve not produced championship players.

  19. #19

    Re: Player recruitment and development

    Quote Originally Posted by dembethewarrior View Post
    It’s a bit like a league 1 club wondering why they’ve not produced championship players.
    Most of them do. Plenty end up at Cardiff City.

  20. #20

    Re: Player recruitment and development

    Quote Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman View Post
    Most of them do. Plenty end up at Cardiff City.
    Knickers super twisted today are they David?

  21. #21

    Re: Player recruitment and development

    Using Erics logic then Jordon Mutch, David Marshall, Steven Caulker, Jay Bothroyd went on to play Premier League after leaving Cardiff in the last decade.

  22. #22

    Re: Player recruitment and development

    Quote Originally Posted by J R Hartley View Post
    Using Erics logic then Jordon Mutch, David Marshall, Steven Caulker, Jay Bothroyd went on to play Premier League after leaving Cardiff in the last decade.
    Kevin Peadophile Catherine another one who played Ligue 1 after leaving City.

    Juan Cala and Javi Guerra La Liga.

    Should have kept Ole in charge in that 2013/14 season and not let Slade rip that team up.

  23. #23

    Re: Player recruitment and development

    Quote Originally Posted by J R Hartley View Post
    Using Erics logic then Jordon Mutch, David Marshall, Steven Caulker, Jay Bothroyd went on to play Premier League after leaving Cardiff in the last decade.
    Mutch and Marshall are reasonable examples of players who actually developed here and went on to play at a higher level with other clubs, although it didn't go particularly well for either of them.

    Caulker came from the Premier League, only played for City in the Premier League and went to another Premier League club. That could hardly be described as development.

    As for Bothroyd, he'd already played for two clubs in the Premier League and in Serie A before he came here.

    But hey, if these players fit your agenda, then so be it.


  24. #24

    Re: Player recruitment and development

    Quote Originally Posted by J R Hartley View Post
    Kevin Peadophile Catherine another one who played Ligue 1 after leaving City.

    Juan Cala and Javi Guerra La Liga.
    Didn't they all come from top-flight teams anyway?

  25. #25

    Re: Player recruitment and development

    Quote Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman View Post
    Mutch and Marshall are reasonable examples of players who actually developed here and went on to play at a higher level with other clubs, although it didn't go particularly well for either of them.

    Caulker came from the Premier League, only played for City in the Premier League and went to another Premier League club. That could hardly be described as development.

    As for Bothroyd, he'd already played for two clubs in the Premier League and in Serie A before he came here.

    But hey, if these players fit your agenda, then so be it.

    I certainly will use Jay Bothroyd as an example of a player who Cardiff developed into a better player. Always had the talent but it was nurtured to its fullest at Cardiff.

  26. #26

    Re: Player recruitment and development

    Quote Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman View Post
    Didn't they all come from top-flight teams anyway?
    And?

    Several players who you named in your OP come from top flight teams? or played top flight?

    Or are you changing the goalposts to suit your agenda?

  27. #27

    Re: Player recruitment and development

    Quote Originally Posted by J R Hartley View Post
    And?

    Several players who you named in your OP come from top flight teams? or played top flight?

    Or are you changing the goalposts to suit your agenda?
    Let me ask you a question: do you think Cardiff City Football Club has been one that has recruited well and where a good percentage of players have developed significantly during the last decade or so?

  28. #28

    Re: Player recruitment and development

    Quote Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman View Post
    Let me ask you a question: do you think Cardiff City Football Club has been one that has recruited well and where a good percentage of players have developed significantly during the last decade or so?
    Depends how you look at it. Whilst we may have not developed many young players we have been promoted twice to the Premier League in that time. So we obviously made some players better.

    Every club would like to get promoted with a team full of developed players but how often is that the case? Most clubs buy their way out of this division. Thats just the way it is.

    Lets cut the bullshit, this is just another of your threads with the hidden message being an attack on Vincent Tan.

    Let it go mun.

  29. #29

    Re: Player recruitment and development

    Hasnt the last decade been our most successful period of at least the last 50 years. 2 promotions. Feck me weve had some luck since our recruitment and development is so bad..........or perhaps it hasnt.?

  30. #30

    Re: Player recruitment and development

    Quote Originally Posted by Hilts View Post
    Hasnt the last decade been our most successful period of at least the last 50 years. 2 promotions. Feck me weve had some luck since our recruitment and development is so bad..........or perhaps it hasnt.?
    But we didnt do it with a 22 man squad of lads born within Cardiff postcodes and were with the club since they could walk, so its futile.

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