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Thread: Offside - Linesman should ignore offside

  1. #1

    Offside - Linesman should ignore offside

    Is there a case for linesmen NOT to flag for offside, ever!

    It will still be an offence, so players still can't 'goal-hang' as we used to say, but offside would only be checked if and when a goal is scored. It would certainly stop the chaos that ensued with the Shelvey goal last week.

    Just think it would make things a little simpler.

  2. #2

    Re: Offside - Linesman should ignore offside

    I've often wondered what football would be with out the off side rule. No holding a line, no offside traps, more goals, less pauses in the game. Has it ever been tried anywhere?

  3. #3

    Re: Offside - Linesman should ignore offside

    Quote Originally Posted by NYCBlue View Post
    I've often wondered what football would be with out the off side rule. No holding a line, no offside traps, more goals, less pauses in the game. Has it ever been tried anywhere?
    I think it would be terrible. It would encourage more direct football, and be the end of the through ball (love a throughball). It would be big forwards trying to win the ball in the area.

    I don't think there's much wrong with the offside rule. It's not perfect at all, but the changes that were made in the last 15 years changed the game massively, from Greece and AC Milan v Juventus in 03 and 04 to all the interesting different styles we've seen since then - Barca and Spain's tiki taka, Germany's counterattacking, Leicester's sucker punching to the title, and so on.

    What IS a problem, and what is destroying the fun in football, is VAR with it's ittybitty nitpicking over where a winger's armpit is. Go back to the lino's eyesight and tell TV to fecking stop analysing offsides for ten minutes and talk about the game instead at halftime and on the highlight shows. That's all that's needed.


    BTW, this is one of my favourite ever throughballs. Silva to Milner vs Everton in 2011

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4jp2JIbHnU

  4. #4

    Re: Offside - Linesman should ignore offside

    Quote Originally Posted by NYCBlue View Post
    I've often wondered what football would be with out the off side rule. No holding a line, no offside traps, more goals, less pauses in the game. Has it ever been tried anywhere?
    Every school playground.

    But seriously I do agree. As with a lot of sports it would be interesting to see what happens if you did away with some of the fundamental rules. Goal hanging would become an art.

  5. #5

    Re: Offside - Linesman should ignore offside

    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post
    I

    What IS a problem, and what is destroying the fun in football, is VAR with it's ittybitty nitpicking over where a winger's armpit is. Go back to the lino's eyesight and tell TV to fecking stop analysing offsides for ten minutes and talk about the game instead at halftime and on the highlight shows. That's all that's needed.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4jp2JIbHnU
    I'd give managers two challenges (like NFL) and VAR only used when requested by them (loss of a subsitution if you challenege incorrectly). There is a place for it to fix really bad decisions but the forensic analysis of every decision is not what it is for.

    The Arsenal Man U one was a good example, the linesman had to move to see around the Man u defender but still managed to ignore him


  6. #6

    Re: Offside - Linesman should ignore offside

    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post
    I think it would be terrible. It would encourage more direct football, and be the end of the through ball (love a throughball). It would be big forwards trying to win the ball in the area.

    I don't think there's much wrong with the offside rule. It's not perfect at all, but the changes that were made in the last 15 years changed the game massively, from Greece and AC Milan v Juventus in 03 and 04 to all the interesting different styles we've seen since then - Barca and Spain's tiki taka, Germany's counterattacking, Leicester's sucker punching to the title, and so on.

    What IS a problem, and what is destroying the fun in football, is VAR with it's ittybitty nitpicking over where a winger's armpit is. Go back to the lino's eyesight and tell TV to fecking stop analysing offsides for ten minutes and talk about the game instead at halftime and on the highlight shows. That's all that's needed.


    BTW, this is one of my favourite ever throughballs. Silva to Milner vs Everton in 2011

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4jp2JIbHnU
    Why would it end the through ball? Through balls are just balls into space.

  7. #7

    Re: Offside - Linesman should ignore offside

    Just change the rule it was supposed to stop goal hanging which made defenders sit deep and made for a boring match.

    Who cares if someone's toe nail is offside from a flicked on corner, I want more goals not fewer.

  8. #8

    Re: Offside - Linesman should ignore offside

    Quote Originally Posted by Croesy Blue View Post
    Just change the rule it was supposed to stop goal hanging which made defenders sit deep and made for a boring match.

    Who cares if someone's toe nail is offside from a flicked on corner, I want more goals not fewer.
    This.

  9. #9

    Re: Offside - Linesman should ignore offside

    Quote Originally Posted by NYCBlue View Post
    I've often wondered what football would be with out the off side rule. No holding a line, no offside traps, more goals, less pauses in the game. Has it ever been tried anywhere?
    I reckon you've been living Stateside too long

    Regarding the OP, I don't think the proposal would be good for the game. We know what it's like with VAR now, takes away the elation of scoring a goal as we wait for the confirmation.

    I reckon leave as is but give the power back to the referee again i.e. yes, have checks for the borderline decisions but let the ref have the final say ŗ la World Cup 2018.

  10. #10

    Re: Offside - Linesman should ignore offside

    Quote Originally Posted by MacAdder View Post
    I reckon you've been living Stateside too long
    Why? Because I thought about something?

  11. #11

    Re: Offside - Linesman should ignore offside

    Y
    Quote Originally Posted by NYCBlue View Post
    Why? Because I thought about something?
    I meant that it's all about scoring loads of points in American sports.
    The thought of a 14-12 scoreline in football sounds pretty dreadful.

    Also IMO the back line playing offside and the offence putting it's wits against it is an integral part of the game.

  12. #12

    Re: Offside - Linesman should ignore offside

    Quote Originally Posted by MacAdder View Post
    Y

    I meant that it's all about scoring loads of points in American sports.
    The thought of a 14-12 scoreline in football sounds pretty dreadful.

    Also IMO the back line playing offside and the offence putting it's wits against it is an integral part of the game.
    I just wondered what it would be like that's all. I don't think there would be that many more goals. Still 11 v 11 afterall.

  13. #13

    Re: Offside - Linesman should ignore offside

    Quote Originally Posted by NYCBlue View Post
    I just wondered what it would be like that's all. I don't think there would be that many more goals. Still 11 v 11 afterall.
    Fair enough. I did think you were joking at first, thus my smiley.

    I think there has been far too much tinkering with the rules (I think I've mentioned before). The game has evolved though so I understand why certain things are tried to make the game "better" but many just seem petty tinkering.
    Something as fundamental as doing away with offside though I think would be a step too far.

    I do remember one of the leagues I played in trying something similar (but quite different) for a season. It was the South Wales senior league back in about 1990.

    An attacker was deemed onside if the ball was played forward from his own half.
    This caused no end of confusion and angst amongst the defending side as quite a few ways to capitalise were worked out.

    One was if a person received a ball inside his opponents half he just slipped the ball back to a teammate in his own half who slipped the ball through to the striker who had made his run quite a few seconds earlier.
    The defenders more often than not didn't play offside as it was far too risky.

    Another was if the attack broke down, the striker just stayed up on the edge of the penalty area until a teammate launched it back upfield when the opposition attack broke down.

    There were many more goals than normal if memory serves.
    It goes without saying that it never caught on.

    Anybody else remember that or play in the league?

  14. #14

    Re: Offside - Linesman should ignore offside

    Quick History Lesson:
    At the start of football, there were many rules. The original offside rule, Rule 6 of the Cambridge rules if I recall correctly, stated that any player in the opposition half is offside if played to him by a player on the same team. This resulted in players checking, which is when a player would form a /\ as the ones on the left/right would pick up possession if the one at the front was dispossessed. The Sheffield rules, saw this and changed it slightly stating that offside was deemed if it was in the opposing third. The Scottish rules were if 3 opposition players were between the goalline and the ball (1 more than the current day). It was then accepted into the rules of football later on with one less player.
    :)

    (Might have mixed up Sheffield/Scottish rules, but am like 75% sure Scottish is the more modern one)

  15. #15

    Re: Offside - Linesman should ignore offside

    I never meant doing away with offside, the offside rule stays as it is. Just stop the linesman from flagging for offside. If a goal is scored then check for offside and allow or disallow the goal.

  16. #16

    Re: Offside - Linesman should ignore offside

    Quote Originally Posted by NYCBlue View Post
    Why would it end the through ball? Through balls are just balls into space.
    Because there'd be less space. If there's no offside, the defence has absolutely nothing to gain from moving up the pitch.

    Edit: a through ball is a pass into space behind the defensive line.

  17. #17

    Re: Offside - Linesman should ignore offside

    Quote Originally Posted by Croesy Blue View Post
    Just change the rule it was supposed to stop goal hanging which made defenders sit deep and made for a boring match.

    Who cares if someone's toe nail is offside from a flicked on corner, I want more goals not fewer.
    This is a VAR problem not an offside problem. The naked eye doesn't see any of these.

  18. #18

    Re: Offside - Linesman should ignore offside

    Quote Originally Posted by alan_corneli View Post
    I never meant doing away with offside, the offside rule stays as it is. Just stop the linesman from flagging for offside. If a goal is scored then check for offside and allow or disallow the goal.
    I was thinking that, but not sure it really works due to the fluid nature of football. Last night in the NFL, a player caught a pass with hardly any time on the clock - it was vital that he moved as far forwards as he could to set his team up for a winning kick. He was grabbed and blatantly fouled by the defensive team, but he kept moving. The defender clearly had a grip on the player's facemask (a clear foul) but because it is the NFL, they wait until the play is over before applying the penalty - the incidence of the foul doesn't stop the game. He made significant extra yardage and when the play finished they added 15 yards due to the foul against him. Which works perfectly in American Football which by its nature is stop/start.

    But in football if they only assessed whether a player was offside if a goal was scored, how long do you leave open the period to call it back? What if they get a corner from which they subsequently score? What if the ball stays in play for another minute or so, the attacking team keeping possession and then they score? What if possession changes a few times but the ball stays in play and then they score? I think leave offside as it is and leave linesmen as they are. Just get rid of VAR.

    Or as has been suggested, give the VAR operator 1 go at watching a replay at full speed. Any howlers should be easily apparent from that so it would correct for stuff like the screenshot in the above thread. It does also mean that the occasional marginal decision will still be wrong and so Sky pundits etc will be able to dribble on about freeze-frames and possible offsides, handballs etc while the rest of us crack on with our lives.

  19. #19

    Re: Offside - Linesman should ignore offside

    Quote Originally Posted by Optimistic Nick View Post
    I was thinking that, but not sure it really works due to the fluid nature of football. Last night in the NFL, a player caught a pass with hardly any time on the clock - it was vital that he moved as far forwards as he could to set his team up for a winning kick. He was grabbed and blatantly fouled by the defensive team, but he kept moving. The defender clearly had a grip on the player's facemask (a clear foul) but because it is the NFL, they wait until the play is over before applying the penalty - the incidence of the foul doesn't stop the game. He made significant extra yardage and when the play finished they added 15 yards due to the foul against him. Which works perfectly in American Football which by its nature is stop/start.

    But in football if they only assessed whether a player was offside if a goal was scored, how long do you leave open the period to call it back? What if they get a corner from which they subsequently score? What if the ball stays in play for another minute or so, the attacking team keeping possession and then they score? What if possession changes a few times but the ball stays in play and then they score? I think leave offside as it is and leave linesmen as they are. Just get rid of VAR.

    Or as has been suggested, give the VAR operator 1 go at watching a replay at full speed. Any howlers should be easily apparent from that so it would correct for stuff like the screenshot in the above thread. It does also mean that the occasional marginal decision will still be wrong and so Sky pundits etc will be able to dribble on about freeze-frames and possible offsides, handballs etc while the rest of us crack on with our lives.
    Iím guessing youíre talking about Kittle in the 49ers/Saints game. Was watching live. What a beast he was. Unbelievable determination

  20. #20

    Re: Offside - Linesman should ignore offside

    The game would become a farce, defenders wouldn't be able to get forward and a huge gap would appear between defence and midfield, it would encourage 50 60 yard long balls and the goalkeeper wouldn't really he able to come off his line. The game would become ridiculous as defenders would have to constantly man mark no matter where the ball was on the field.

  21. #21

    Re: Offside - Linesman should ignore offside

    Quote Originally Posted by StraightOuttaCanton View Post
    Iím guessing youíre talking about Kittle in the 49ers/Saints game. Was watching live. What a beast he was. Unbelievable determination
    Yep and agree- was awesome, if disappointing for me as a token seahawks fan. But at the time I did think, as the safety was hanging off his facemask, that it hadnít really occurred to me before that in the NFL a clear foul is made and everyone knows it, but the game just keeps going until the play ends. Im sure there are exceptions to this in the NFL and I know we have the advantage rule in normal football, but I was wondering what football would be like if we did the same as the NFL and realised pretty quickly that we just couldnt as we donít have a stoppage in play every few seconds.

    They are both brilliant games - not suggesting that one has it right and one has it wrong. Unless we are discussing VAR in which case the NFL is miles ahead.

  22. #22

    Re: Offside - Linesman should ignore offside

    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post
    This is a VAR problem not an offside problem. The naked eye doesn't see any of these.
    I still don't see the point of offside on corners and other things like that.

    I agree it is exacerbated by VAR though. Either get rid of VAR or change the rule.

  23. #23

    Re: Offside - Linesman should ignore offside

    Quote Originally Posted by Croesy Blue View Post
    I still don't see the point of offside on corners and other things like that.

    I agree it is exacerbated by VAR though. Either get rid of VAR or change the rule.
    But you can't be offside from a corner. As you said before, a flick on and you can be. I'm not sure how that rule would work, how much longer from a corner is it ok?

    The rule is ok. If it's so marginal that the linesman can't see it then imo that's just life. VAR came in because this wasn't good enough for people, they said offside is black or white. And we quickly discovered that this means going down to the millimetre and football has become shit.

    To be blunt, VAR has made the best bit of football a chore to endure.

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