Exit Poll Its PM Boris with 80 odd majority

[jon1959]

Just perhaps it would have better to let Johnson have his deal of a few months ago, he was weak then and could have been controlled , he's now in Pl ace for 5 years with a such a majority with that he can get anything through the House even with a bit of dissent, I was genuinely surprised to wake up this morning to the news, with the choice of candidates on offer wasn't really bothered who won, that said having a tory win with such a commanding majority is not something I would have wanted but not having voted, apparently I got what I deserved. I note that he still hasn't resigned as yet and taken his crew with him, if he's allowed any influence over the next leader then I'm certain I'll not see another Labour Pm, I'm sure BJ will be found out very soon by his new supporters but will Labour continue with a radical left which has just been given one massive FO tablet and blow it again, or will they modernise to an electable left leaning party.

1. Didn't Johnson's Brexit Deal (aka Theresa May's deal with an Irish Sea border) get passed by MPs in October. They wanted time to deal with it properly (so end January not end October deadline) but it was Johnson (who voted against Brexit twice) who pulled the plug!

2. The 'radical left' leader of the Labour Party took them to 41% (against Tory 43%) of the vote with a similar, popular, manifesto in 2017. True there have been two and a half years more of concerted attacks from the media and the other side in the Labour civil war which has caused him more damage, but the real difference is the Brexit stance. Labour did not have a 'get off the fence' option and it killed them. Corbyn was also less effective and less of a surprise in the campaign this time around - but that cannot explain the scale of the loss of leave voting heartland seats.

3. I hope Corbyn resigns the leadership sooner rather than later, but he is right to tie the timing in to a new leadership election process - and that should be down to the Labour party to decide, not Laura Kuenssberg or the Mail Online. But it should be done as quickly as possible (as should an internal review of why they failed so badly - especially as McDonnell and others really expected a repeat of 2017 in the final days).

[DubaiDai]

1. Didn't Johnson's Brexit Deal (aka Theresa May's deal with an Irish Sea border) get passed by MPs in October. They wanted time to deal with it properly (so end January not end October deadline) but it was Johnson (who voted against Brexit twice) who pulled the plug!

2. The 'radical left' leader of the Labour Party took them to 41% (against Tory 43%) of the vote with a similar, popular, manifesto in 2017. True there have been two and a half years more of concerted attacks from the media and the other side in the Labour civil war which has caused him more damage, but the real difference is the Brexit stance. Labour did not have a 'get off the fence' option and it killed them. Corbyn was also less effective and less of a surprise in the campaign this time around - but that cannot explain the scale of the loss of leave voting heartland seats.

3. I hope Corbyn resigns the leadership sooner rather than later, but he is right to tie the timing in to a new leadership election process - and that should be down to the Labour party to decide, not Laura Kuenssberg or the Mail Online. But it should be done as quickly as possible (as should an internal review of why they failed so badly - especially as McDonnell and others really expected a repeat of 2017 in the final days).

Jon, when May called the election in 2017 she wrongly took advice that she was in a fairly strong position, which was totally untrue.
Also since then the public perception is that a Cornyn has continually frustrated the leave vote and then taken any of the Tory pledges, only to increase the funding promises beyond reasonable limits. Without Torres saying much more Corbyn lost his credibility.
The country needs a strong Labour Party to be successful but far left thinking is now alienating them more and more

[Heathblue]

[QUOTE=jon1959;5028911]1. Didn't Johnson's Brexit Deal (aka Theresa May's deal with an Irish Sea border) get passed by MPs in October. They wanted time to deal with it properly (so end January not end October deadline) but it was Johnson (who voted against Brexit twice) who pulled the plug!

2. The 'radical left' leader of the Labour Party took them to 41% (against Tory 43%) of the vote with a similar, popular, manifesto in 2017. True there have been two and a half years more of concerted attacks from the media and the other side in the Labour civil war which has caused him more damage, but the real difference is the Brexit stance. Labour did not have a 'get off the fence' option and it killed them. Corbyn was also less effective and less of a surprise in the campaign this time around - but that cannot explain the scale of the loss of leave voting heartland seats.

3. I hope Corbyn resigns the leadership sooner rather than later, but he is right to tie the timing in to a new leadership election process - and that should be down to the Labour party to decide, not Laura Kuenssberg or the Mail Online. But it should be done as quickly as possible (as should an internal review of why they failed so badly - especially as McDonnell and others really expected a repeat of 2017 in the final days).[/QUOTE

Jon, I thought he got turned over about 6 times on various votes in the house after his election regarding brexit stuff? I realise you are eyes on with the political stuff and your knowledge of all this will be spot on.

However, the country spoke last night, Labour has to listen rather quickly or suffer again, Corbyn is toxic, he needs to go immediately IMO, the Liberal lady has accepted her failure ASAP

[jackrabbit]

Boris did the Labour Party a huge favour last night. Now at last we might see the Marxist cancer of Corbyn, McDonnell, Milne and Jon Lansman of Momentum (in this video) expelled from the party and the restoration of decent electable party members like Alan Johnson, Liz Kendall, Stella Creasy and other decent moderate traditional Labourites. I would like to add, Caroline Flint but she unfortunately lost her seat - the only Labour casualty that I regretted last night. I've been saying for years that the great British public would never vote for a communist, and it's no longer a matter of opinion - Corbyn was the Trotskyite disaster I expected him to be. Congratulations to the great British public! Not just Corbyn and Corbynites, also the names of the insufferable Jo Swinson, Chukka Umunna, Dominic Grieve and David Gauke consigned to the dustbin of history. Superb!

Click on the link below the picture to view the video:
Corbyn was a disaster on the doorstep... everyone knew he couldn't lead the working class out of a paper bag'.

Alan Johnson says he wants the 'little cult'
@PeoplesMomentum
'out of the party' and to 'go back to your student politics' #ITVElection2019

https://itv.com/news/2019-12-12/elec...v-news/…

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Corbyn and his crew have got to go , he had some good ideas but he was cannon fodder for the Tory press and he was a very poor leader , if we had a more electable leader and a decent manifesto we could have had a hung parliament

That together with voter ignorance .......let's not defend it .......gave us a right hiding

I am a lefty but far left manifestos thrown in with a poor leader , infighting and brexit was never going to do the business

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Boris did the Labour Party a huge favour last night. Now at last we might see the Marxist cancer of Corbyn, McDonnell, Milne and Jon Lansman of Momentum (in this video) expelled from the party and the restoration of decent electable party members like Alan Johnson, Liz Kendall, Stella Creasy and other decent moderate traditional Labourites. I would like to add, Caroline Flint but she unfortunately lost her seat - the only Labour casualty that I regretted last night. I've been saying for years that the great British public would never vote for a communist, and it's no longer a matter of opinion - Corbyn was the Trotskyite disaster I expected him to be. Congratulations to the great British public! Not just Corbyn and Corbynites, also the names of the insufferable Jo Swinson, Chukka Umunna, Dominic Grieve and David Gauke consigned to the dustbin of history. Superb!

Click on the link below the picture to view the video:
Corbyn was a disaster on the doorstep... everyone knew he couldn't lead the working class out of a paper bag'.

Alan Johnson says he wants the 'little cult'
@PeoplesMomentum
'out of the party' and to 'go back to your student politics' #ITVElection2019

https://itv.com/news/2019-12-12/elec...v-news/…

Liz Kendall or Stella creasey would make great middle ground leaders

Both very intelligent women

[lardy]

Ed/David was a real sliding doors moment for labour (and the UK).

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Ed/David was a real sliding doors moment for labour (and the UK).

Yes we fecked up big time there

David milliband was a centrist moderate who could have taken the party forward but he had links with Blair and Iraq

Ed milliband , propped up by the union vote , was hopeless

[Jordi Culé]

I see Corbyn loyalists are blaming Brexit for the election outcome. I'd say they are right to do so, but what they are not comprehending is that it is their Brexit policy which has cost them. All the Conservatives did was increase their vote by around 1.5%, a far bigger contribution to the result was Labour's decline from 40% of the vote in 2017 to 32.2% this time around. I think Corbyn should go much sooner rather than later because his strategy (and the public perception is that it was his strategy) saw his party losing support among remainers as well as leavers.

What I failed to understand in 2016 and still don't understand now is that the difference makers in the Referendum were working class people in what were Labour strongholds. It seems to me that they voted Leave because of a "my life is shit" sentiment, but it baffles me why they would hold the EU and the main opposition party responsible for that, rather than the Government of this country in which the Conservative party had been a constant factor for six years at the time of the vote.

However, that's what they did and what they have done again, so I think those of us in England and Wales especially who want to get the Conservative party out have to try and find out why ex mining communities see the need to "get Brexit done" as a higher priority than getting rid of a party that has historically been despised in such areas.

Like you, I voted Remain in 2016, albeit reluctantly, but although I'm convinced that the 17.4 million voted for stacks of different versions of Brexit in the Referendum, the democracy being denied argument they came out with was, for me, a very hard one to counter, so I had made up my mind to vote Leave in the event of a second vote.

I'm extremely disappointed with the election result, but the truth is that my main motivation was to try and keep the Torys out and that was the reason I voted Labour rather than a desire to see them win - if I had been living in Scotland, I would definitely have voted SNP and, if Corbyn outstays his welcome in a bid to get more of the same in terms of the party leadership, then Plaid will start looking an increasingly attractive option for me.

Although Adam Price presented as a honest and good politician and I'm open to the idea of Welsh independence the only thing that trips them up is their policies are more unrealistic than Corbyn's. The uncomfortable fact for them is that although in the Welsh assembly they're the main opposition to Labour come the GE they poll far below the Tories nationally.

Corbyn fudged the issue of Brexit which undoubtedly has led to Labour getting slammed in traditional Labour areas. His strategy of trying to be all things to everyone has kicked him right in the arse.

[Wales-Bales]

The price of integrity ...

[Jordi Culé]

And presumably you don't think that Corbyn is a racist or liar, despite all the evidence to the contrary.

You forgot to call him a terrorist too.

Minus 10 points.

[Jordi Culé]

Liz Kendall or Stella creasey would make great middle ground leaders

Both very intelligent women

I don't see anything other than Keir Starmer unless he's been tainted for being in Corbyn's shadow bench?

Labour Party members who have listened to him speak were very complimentary about him.

[Elwood Blues]

There's been a lot of talk about One Nation Conservatism today from the winning party and it'll be interesting to see whether there are changes to the Cabinet in the coming days, because the last thing I'd expect from the one that went into the election is One Nation Conservatism.

Apparently according to Laura K there will be some appointments next week (they have to replace Nicky Morgan and Zac Goldsmith) with a major cabinet reshuffle after Brexit

[Baloo]

A very subdued atmosphere in the QT audience given one party has been voted in with a big majority.

[jon1959]

Interesting analysis of the number of votes needed to elect an MP by @electoralreform:

Across Britain, it took...

��️864,743 votes to elect 1 Green MP
��️642,303 votes to elect 0 Brexit Party MPs
��️334,122 votes to elect a Lib Dem
��️50,817 votes for a Labour MP
��️38,316 votes for a Plaid Cymru MP
��️38,300 votes for a Con. MP
��️25,882 votes for a SNP MP

and about 642,000 votes to not elect any Brexit Party MP.

[MOZZER2]

not sure how but we should be looking at another way of doing politics and have also advocated many times we should look at some form of proportional respresentation and looking at those stats you can't disagree . this first past the post system needs to be looked at as it belongs in the past .

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

not sure how but we should be looking at another way of doing politics and have also advocated many times we should look at some form of proportional respresentation and looking at those stats you can't disagree . this first past the post system needs to be looked at as it belongs in the past .

The country was offered a watered down version of pr called the alternative vote but most people couldn't even be bothered to get out of bed to vote for it

With the tories in such a commanding position now we have no chance of getting electoral reform for the foreseeable future

[Organ Morgan.]

It's the same tedious scripted pantomime at every General Election that the majority of voters fall for (76% voted for the reds or blues) with the two major parties casting the other as a scary villain. The Tories will crush the poor and downtrodden Labour says while the Tories portray Labour as financially clueless who will bankrupt the country. Neither side will institute PR because both know they will lose the opportunity to gain unfettered power. PR would eliminate the prospect of their supposedly terrible foe from having free reign to wreak havoc on who they say they want to protect, but both are dead against doing the obvious. That's because it's much easier for those who really run the show from behind the stage to get what they want (i.e., more for themselves, less for everyone else).

Below is Thursday's seats won under first past the post and what they would have been in brackets under PR.

Con 365 (289)
Lab 203 (213)
Lib 11 (76)
SNP 48 (26)
Brexit 0 (13)
Green 1 (18)
Others 22 (15)

The Tories took 43.6% of votes cast for those 365 seats. The biggest post war General Election win by seats taken was Labour's 418 in 1997 when they attracted a smaller percentage (43.2%) than the Tories did on Thursday. The system is so farcical that in 1951 Labour had the highest percentage of post war General Election votes with 48.8% but lost the election to the Tories and their 48.0% share.

[Jordi Culé]

It's the same tedious scripted pantomime at every General Election that the majority of voters fall for (76% voted for the reds or blues) with the two major parties casting the other as a scary villain. The Tories will crush the poor and downtrodden Labour says while the Tories portray Labour as financially clueless who will bankrupt the country. Neither side will institute PR because both know they will lose the opportunity to gain unfettered power. PR would eliminate the prospect of their supposedly terrible foe from having free reign to wreak havoc on who they say they want to protect, but both are dead against doing the obvious. That's because it's much easier for those who really run the show from behind the stage to get what they want (i.e., more for themselves, less for everyone else).

Below is Thursday's seats won under first past the post and what they would have been in brackets under PR.

Con 365 (289)
Lab 203 (213)
Lib 11 (76)
SNP 48 (26)
Brexit 0 (13)
Green 1 (18)
Others 22 (15)

The Tories took 43.6% of votes cast for those 365 seats. The biggest post war General Election win by seats taken was Labour's 418 in 1997 when they attracted a smaller percentage (43.2%) than the Tories did on Thursday. The system is so farcical that in 1951 Labour had the highest percentage of post war General Election votes with 48.8% but lost the election to the Tories and their 48.0% share.

Exactly

[Q]

“ The sad thing is that whatever people think of Corbyn, his policies were designed to help these very people, they were genuine and honest “

Deluded. He’s policy’s we’re naive. London Labour MP centric and nothing to do with the labour heartlands.

[jon1959]

“ The sad thing is that whatever people think of Corbyn, his policies were designed to help these very people, they were genuine and honest “

Exactly right. I don't know what part of the manifesto could be honestly described as 'London Labour MP centric' (whatever that means).

I do know the manifesto was enthusiastically adopted by Labour Party members across its traditional heartlands and that it wasn't (apart from the Brexit stance) a major problem on the doorstep - in fact the opposite. It was as popular as the 2017 version.

Brexit was a problem. Corbyn was marmite. The anti-semitism mud stuck. There were other reasons too - but not generally the policy proposals in the manifesto.

[A Quiet Monkfish]

“ The sad thing is that whatever people think of Corbyn, his policies were designed to help these very people, they were genuine and honest “

Exactly right. I don't know what part of the manifesto could be honestly described as 'London Labour MP centric' (whatever that means).

I do know the manifesto was enthusiastically adopted by Labour Party members across its traditional heartlands and that it wasn't (apart from the Brexit stance) a major problem on the doorstep - in fact the opposite. It was as popular as the 2017 version.

Brexit was a problem. Corbyn was marmite. The anti-semitism mud stuck. There were other reasons too - but not generally the policy proposals in the manifesto.

You're right. The policy proposals weren't a problem - people just didn't believe them. a daily diet of a new multi billion pound idea which in total would cost 25% of GDP, and then tell people they're going to be thousands of pounds better of every year. These are folk who have to budget on a daily basis and know how money works.

McDonnell and Corbyn, two creeps of the highest order..

[the other bob wilson]

You're right. The policy proposals weren't a problem - people just didn't believe them. a daily diet of a new multi billion pound idea which in total would cost 25% of GDP, and then tell people they're going to be thousands of pounds better of every year. These are folk who have to budget on a daily basis and know how money works.

McDonnell and Corbyn, two creeps of the highest order..

I don't think there was a big swing against Labour directly because of what their Manifesto said, but the problem was that every day brought a new expensive policy and, by the time it came to vote, there was belief that they had gone into the realms of fantasy. Just sticking to four or five core popular policies would have suited Labour better, but, honestly, all I think it would have done was reduce the Tory majority somewhat - this election was not decided by what was in party manifestos (not sure if they ever are).

I've seen suggestions that Corbyn's "defence" of Russia following the Skripal poisonings played badly with patriotic working class voters and I think that's probably correct (although the irony which sees them voting for a man called Boris who suppresses Parliamentary reports into Russian involvement in UK elections/referendums does not escape me) - Corbyn was not the only reason Labour were routed, but I'd say he was the biggest one when you consider his stance on Brexit.

[lardy]

Agree with Bob. The manifestos werent that influential on either side imo

[lisvaneblue]

I don't think there was a big swing against Labour directly because of what their Manifesto said, but the problem was that every day brought a new expensive policy and, by the time it came to vote, there was belief that they had gone into the realms of fantasy. Just sticking to four or five core popular policies would have suited Labour better, but, honestly, all I think it would have done was reduce the Tory majority somewhat - this election was not decided by what was in party manifestos (not sure if they ever are).

I've seen suggestions that Corbyn's "defence" of Russia following the Skripal poisonings played badly with patriotic working class voters and I think that's probably correct (although the irony which sees them voting for a man called Boris who suppresses Parliamentary reports into Russian involvement in UK elections/referendums does not escape me) - Corbyn was not the only reason Labour were routed, but I'd say he was the biggest one when you consider his stance on Brexit.

Totally agree with your last sentence. I wish he could bring himself to say sorry to his party and those MPs who have lost their jobs. He seems to find apologising difficult. I hope he does not hang about. We need a strong opposition whoever is in government and we won't get that until he and his front bench have gone.