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Thread: Exit Poll Its PM Boris with 80 odd majority

  1. #176

    Re: Exit Poll Its PM Boris with 80 odd majority

    Quote Originally Posted by Vindec View Post
    The media and establishment don't vote.
    They didn't need to. They're the puppet masters and the public are on strings.

    Anybody who voted for a party other than Labour yesterday have effectively signed the death warrants of hundreds of thousands of people over the next five years.

  2. #177

    Re: Exit Poll Its PM Boris with 80 odd majority

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    I understand that, but why is the EU and Labour considered the establishment and not the Government of this country?
    I think Corbyn represented too much loony left with policies that too many people knew would be nice but were not realistically something this country could afford

    Hence why the blind tests on policies go well for labour... but they fail to take into account people ‘know’ we cant afford them

    I don’t believe this ‘people wanted change’ like trump stuff. I don’t think there’s anything like that in this election

  3. #178

    Re: Exit Poll Its PM Boris with 80 odd majority

    Quote Originally Posted by B. Oddie View Post
    They didn't need to. They're the puppet masters and the public are on strings.

    Anybody who voted for a party other than Labour yesterday have effectively signed the death warrants of hundreds of thousands of people over the next five years.

    As opposed to voting labour and signing the death warrant for the whole country?

  4. #179

    Re: Exit Poll Its PM Boris with 80 odd majority

    Maybe this is generation too; many people voting this time have no connection too the miners in their families besides some brass lamps in their grandparents house. Plus I think like brexit many older people wanted out of Europe as they incorrectly think rules from Europe and immigrants ruin the country. Is that stupid to think that or just poor education? Generally its down to the quality of information available

  5. #180

    Re: Exit Poll Its PM Boris with 80 odd majority

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    Tell me, why do you think ex miners and families of ex miners decided to vote Conservative this time? Just saying such people are stupid is not going to get any of the opposition parties anywhere.
    Maybe this is generation too; many people voting this time have no connection too the miners in their families besides some brass lamps in their grandparents house. Plus I think like brexit many older people wanted out of Europe as they incorrectly think rules from Europe and immigrants ruin the country. Is that stupid to think that or just poor education? Generally its down to the quality of information available

  6. #181

    Re: Exit Poll Its PM Boris with 80 odd majority

    Quote Originally Posted by Q View Post
    As opposed to voting labour and signing the death warrant for the whole country?
    What have we got in this country?

    A health service that's failing more and more every year, abject poverty, ridiculously inflated property prices, a poor road and rail network and underfunded schools - That's what we've got.

    There is plenty of money around but it's hidden from the public.

    Jeremy Corbyn has never said that people shouldn't be rich, but has asked that they contribute fairly and not hide their money away in tax havens.

  7. #182

    Re: Exit Poll Its PM Boris with 80 odd majority

    Quote Originally Posted by Q View Post
    Maybe this is generation too; many people voting this time have no connection too the miners in their families besides some brass lamps in their grandparents house. Plus I think like brexit many older people wanted out of Europe as they incorrectly think rules from Europe and immigrants ruin the country. Is that stupid to think that or just poor education? Generally its down to the quality of information available
    That sounds like you're agreeing with me then to an extent. What needs to be kept track of is that significant numbers of working class voters who would have been thought of as dyed in the wool Labour chose to vote Leave in 2016 at a time when Corbyn had been leader for less than a year and antiSemitism was not the issue it became - I don't see that those subjects were that relevant then.

  8. #183

    Re: Exit Poll Its PM Boris with 80 odd majority

    Two lessons the political strategists will take into the 2024 elections: the truth is secondary to slogans & you can avoid mainstream media interviews without cost.
    (https://twitter.com/JamieJBartlett/s...34069544243202)

    The reforms we urgently need to protect our democracy now have no chance of happening. Not in UK. Not in US.
    (Linked to story showing 88% of Tory ads, and 0% of Labour ads, are misleading - https://twitter.com/carolecadwalla/s...43787906048000)

    We will ensure that judicial review is available to protect the rights of the individuals against an overbearing state, while ensuring that it is not abused to conduct politics by another means or to create needless delays.
    (Page 48 of Tory Manifesto, written after our Prime Minister was found to have lied to the Queen and unlawfully shut down parliament - https://www.indy100.com/article/page...tution-9234351).

    Huge numbers in England and Wales voted for what? Their manifesto is short, they have avoided interviews where their opinions get scrutinized, but it seems that despite massive domestic issues the Conservatives are promising little change while on an international level they're going to rip apart our existing structure which only a tiny minority of extremists were talking about before 2015. I get that for some people the EU was restrictive or interfering but for many it was a safety net and that has now been wiped away on the encouragement of those aforementioned extremists who weren't really adversely impacted by it beforehand.... I just hope they're replacing that safety net for the vulnerable with something better, and yet they're only talking about rolling back the state further so I have my doubts.

    There are a number of reasons not to vote for this edition of Labour, I get that, but we're now far more likely to be lied to by politicians so our future decisions are more misinformed and the majority voted for that. On a political level, that I don't get.

    On a human level, the constituency where Grenfell stood (you know, the one where local authority gave back money to the wealthiest rather than spend their budget on protecting poor people in a tower block who had made several complaints about lack of safety, then the Tory party made it into a joke and heckled Corbyn for wearing a ribbon to commemorate it.) and the constituency represented by Alun Cairns (you know, the one where he resigned from his government position a few months ago because he lied about knowing and refused to apologise for an aid who sabotaged a rape trial) both voted for the Conservative party. That I don't get.

  9. #184

    Re: Exit Poll Its PM Boris with 80 odd majority

    Taking away the fact corbyn had a toxic image , fuelled by the right wing press and had an awful team behind him , the public will get what the public wants .......a race to the bottom and a return to the days of thatcher who Boris adored

    Sadly there is a massive sting in the tale ........lack of housing , poor public services and a crumbling NHS

    Don't say we didn't warn you

  10. #185

    Re: Exit Poll Its PM Boris with 80 odd majority

    Quote Originally Posted by B. Oddie View Post
    What have we got in this country?

    A health service that's failing more and more every year, abject poverty, ridiculously inflated property prices, a poor road and rail network and underfunded schools - That's what we've got.

    There is plenty of money around but it's hidden from the public.

    Jeremy Corbyn has never said that people shouldn't be rich, but has asked that they contribute fairly and not hide their money away in tax havens.
    Who defines fair? That’s pretty naive view of the world. One persons fair is another persons far left / right policy.

    If the NHS is failing (it has been for ALL of my 50+ years)... then it cant just be about more money. If it was would you support all drink, smoking, drug and fat related diseases being only treated based on payments by the individuals??? I would not but at the same time why should I pay more tax for other peoples choices? This is the problem - people who make these poor choices cant have everything for free and expect ‘those who earn more’ to pay for it. That’s not social care.

    Underfunded schools and roads? Highly funded, poorly delivered

    Tax havens? Yep stop them. They would not be needed if we simply set a limit on the MAX tax paid

  11. #186

    Re: Exit Poll Its PM Boris with 80 odd majority

    Quote Originally Posted by Q View Post
    Maybe this is generation too; many people voting this time have no connection too the miners in their families besides some brass lamps in their grandparents house. Plus I think like brexit many older people wanted out of Europe as they incorrectly think rules from Europe and immigrants ruin the country. Is that stupid to think that or just poor education? Generally its down to the quality of information available
    It's more than "generational" - do we not need to ask ourselves who are the working class any more? The traditional image of the slightly down trodden looking man in a dai cap and dungarees is massively outdated.

    As one of the "older people" who voted for Brexit (possibly stupid or poorly educated but having a first degree and a PhD), can I say that I voted that way not because of rules from Europe or immigrants ruining the country but because of the colossal expense of running the huge bureaucratic and unaccountable monster that the EU has become. Simple as that.

  12. #187

    Re: Exit Poll Its PM Boris with 80 odd majority

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    That sounds like you're agreeing with me then to an extent. What needs to be kept track of is that significant numbers of working class voters who would have been thought of as dyed in the wool Labour chose to vote Leave in 2016 at a time when Corbyn had been leader for less than a year and antiSemitism was not the issue it became - I don't see that those subjects were that relevant then.

    Yes, traditional labour voters voted leave. The current Labour Party is run by middle class from London boroughs, with no interest in traditional working class areas. Labour Party decisions are made by people from a few seats in London, not labour heartland. London voted to remain; those MP’s kept their seats... very socialist of them... that’s what people ignore the labour people running the party all kept their seats and their voters liked the remain message

    The next labour leader will probably be a woman’s from the north to try and win those votes; will try to never mention brexit and will still push the same policies as the liberals have also shown there are no votes in the middle ground

  13. #188

    Re: Exit Poll Its PM Boris with 80 odd majority

    Quote Originally Posted by Gofer Blue View Post
    It's more than "generational" - do we not need to ask ourselves who are the working class any more? The traditional image of the slightly down trodden looking man in a dai cap and dungarees is massively outdated.

    As one of the "older people" who voted for Brexit (possibly stupid or poorly educated but having a first degree and a PhD), can I say that I voted that way not because of rules from Europe or immigrants ruining the country but because of the colossal expense of running the huge bureaucratic and unaccountable monster that the EU has become. Simple as that.

    Except running that huge monster.... keeps the markets we use open; with out it we have......

  14. #189

    Re: Exit Poll Its PM Boris with 80 odd majority

    Quote Originally Posted by B. Oddie View Post
    What have we got in this country?

    A health service that's failing more and more every year, abject poverty, ridiculously inflated property prices, a poor road and rail network and underfunded schools - That's what we've got.

    There is plenty of money around but it's hidden from the public.

    Jeremy Corbyn has never said that people shouldn't be rich, but has asked that they contribute fairly and not hide their money away in tax havens.
    We have too many people for starters....when your kids can’t get in a school half a mile away you know it’s phucked. Is it an extra 10 million since Blair let anyone in? We moan about traffic, hospital waiting and getting a doctors appointment though.....

  15. #190

    Re: Exit Poll Its PM Boris with 80 odd majority

    Quote Originally Posted by Q View Post
    Except running that huge monster.... keeps the markets we use open; with out it we have......
    I am old enough to remember the Common Market and that did exactly that!

  16. #191

    Re: Exit Poll Its PM Boris with 80 odd majority

    Quote Originally Posted by goats View Post
    We have too many people for starters....when your kids can’t get in a school half a mile away you know it’s phucked. Is it an extra 10 million since Blair let anyone in? We moan about traffic, hospital waiting and getting a doctors appointment though.....
    Thinly veiled... "we have too many old people for starters" perhaps?

  17. #192

    Re: Exit Poll Its PM Boris with 80 odd majority

    Quote Originally Posted by goats View Post
    We have too many people for starters....when your kids can’t get in a school half a mile away you know it’s phucked. Is it an extra 10 million since Blair let anyone in? We moan about traffic, hospital waiting and getting a doctors appointment though.....
    It's an extra nine million UK residents since 2001 (58 million to 67 million).

    But why are you moaning? If you phone you doctor's surgery today for an appointment they'll probably have a space available at around Easter time.

  18. #193

    Re: Exit Poll Its PM Boris with 80 odd majority

    Quote Originally Posted by goats View Post
    We have too many people for starters....when your kids can’t get in a school half a mile away you know it’s phucked. Is it an extra 10 million since Blair let anyone in? We moan about traffic, hospital waiting and getting a doctors appointment though.....
    We now have the lowest share of the worlds population we have had in modern times..... the rate of increase is the same now as it was for most of the past 50 years. There was a blip centered around 2010. That’s gone. Population growth is now similar to what it has been for last 50years.

  19. #194

    Re: Exit Poll Its PM Boris with 80 odd majority

    Quote Originally Posted by Q View Post
    Yes, traditional labour voters voted leave. The current Labour Party is run by middle class from London boroughs, with no interest in traditional working class areas. Labour Party decisions are made by people from a few seats in London, not labour heartland. London voted to remain; those MP’s kept their seats... very socialist of them... that’s what people ignore the labour people running the party all kept their seats and their voters liked the remain message

    The next labour leader will probably be a woman’s from the north to try and win those votes; will try to never mention brexit and will still push the same policies as the liberals have also shown there are no votes in the middle ground
    I broadly agree with your first paragraph and I think you might well be right about a woman leader.

  20. #195

    Re: Exit Poll Its PM Boris with 80 odd majority

    I think the reasons for the result are pretty obvious - people sick of Brexit and wanting to move on, and Labour having an unelectable leader. One thing I will never understand though is people like this woman in this article about Bolsover, where Dennis Skinner's lost his seat:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50777371

    Karen Hepworth, 62, who runs a crafts stall in Bolsover, would not say how she had voted but blamed Jeremy Corbyn for the result.

    "Everyone says the same thing: they don't like him and they're fed up with Brexit.

    "We have absolutely nothing - it's disgraceful.

    "If we lived down south, we'd not have this problem but they don't spend money here."


    How can she blame Labour and Corbyn for the fact that no money is spent in Bolsover when the Tories have been in power for a decade?

    I don't understand how people can be angry about the lack of investment in their communities and that translates into resentment of the party that's been in opposition, not the one in power. "The Tories don't spend any money on us so there's no way I'm voting Labour"

  21. #196

    Re: Exit Poll Its PM Boris with 80 odd majority

    Quote Originally Posted by Q View Post
    Maybe this is generation too; many people voting this time have no connection too the miners in their families besides some brass lamps in their grandparents house. Plus I think like brexit many older people wanted out of Europe as they incorrectly think rules from Europe and immigrants ruin the country. Is that stupid to think that or just poor education? Generally its down to the quality of information available
    This is a golden example of why Labour just got hammered in the polls - Labour leaders, supporters and Momentum still believe that anyone who voted for Brexit or Conservatives must be stupid or ill educated. They have obviously learnt nothing from what has happened.

  22. #197
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    Re: Exit Poll Its PM Boris with 80 odd majority

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee View Post
    No, but they control the thoughts of so many.
    If that is what you choose to believe.
    thought control is the thing of old sci fi movies (I thought).

  23. #198

    Re: Exit Poll Its PM Boris with 80 odd majority

    Quote Originally Posted by Q View Post
    Except running that huge monster.... keeps the markets we use open; with out it we have......
    ... the entire world?

  24. #199

    Re: Exit Poll Its PM Boris with 80 odd majority

    Quote Originally Posted by xsnaggle View Post
    If that is what you choose to believe.
    thought control is the thing of old sci fi movies (I thought).
    It's happening whether you know it's happing or not

    This old clip is decades old, and the techniques in use today have undertaken a quantum leap since then. The internet is every disinformation scientists wet dream!

    the

  25. #200

    Re: Exit Poll Its PM Boris with 80 odd majority

    Quote Originally Posted by B. Oddie View Post
    What have we got in this country?

    A health service that's failing more and more every year, abject poverty, ridiculously inflated property prices, a poor road and rail network and underfunded schools - That's what we've got.

    There is plenty of money around but it's hidden from the public.

    Jeremy Corbyn has never said that people shouldn't be rich, but has asked that they contribute fairly and not hide their money away in tax havens.

    I don't disagree with what you say about our services, but most of the issues mentioned are the responsibility of Welsh Assembly Government, not Westminster

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