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Some would say that antagonising natural born UK people is not the best way to win the leadership. What do you think?Originally Posted by life on mars
This is clearly true.I think part of the Brexit campaign, and part of the undertone of Brexit, from some politicians, Nigel Farage and others, had racism at its core and its heart
Clive Lewis is right in what he said, but maybe not right in the way his words were paraphrased and commented on by Sun editors and that champion of the people Iain Duncan-Smith. I agree with everything he is quoted as saying. especially this:
'I think part of the Brexit campaign, and part of the undertone of Brexit, from some politicians, Nigel Farage and others, had racism at its core and its heart.
'They used it as a mechanism to divide our communities, to divide our country.'
That isn't to say that racism was the main reason why people voted Brexit - he doesn't say that - but it was part of the campaign and it became normalised by the language of many leading Brexit campaigners.
I don't think he will end up on the Labour leadership ballot, but he is a very interesting politician. He has ideas and speaks well. Unlike a lot of MPs he thinks and talks on his feet - and answers the bloody question!
What a load of tosh. Where the heck does he get this idea that "people of colour" woke up with a sense of dread the day after the referendum? I'm sure lots of people woke up with a sense of dread that day, regardless of their colour!
It's quite funny how immigration went from being the single biggest topic in the pre Referendum debate to the subject which no one really wanted to talk about once the No vote was secured. It goes back to that Will Self quote about not everyone who voted Leave being a racist, but all racists voted Leave which Mark Francois had so much trouble understanding. The votes of such people were courted by the likes of Farage in particular and Clive Lewis is not wrong in saying that, but I hope these quotes were not used in the contect of his leadership bid, because I feel Labour needs to move on from Brexit now.
I can't speak for the other 17 million people who voted to leave in the referendum but I am not a racist unless by that you include anyone who would like to see no further immigrants coming to the UK unless they have a pre-existing, verifiable job offer, based on a points system, so that we take in those who will be able to make a positive contribution, be they fruit pickers, brain surgeons, bus drivers or whatever else we need. The exception would be refugees from war-torn places like Syria with a cap on numbers as agreed within the U.N. like the VPRS scheme whereby each country pledges to take a set number over a period of time.
However I must add that, for me, that was a secondary reason for voting leave. The main reason by a country mile was the bloated, fat-cat, gravy train, inefficient, corrupt, bottomless money pit that the EU has become. Oh yes, the EU "generously" gives grants for infrastructure projects i.e some of our money back for projects which they approve! I am old enough to remember the Common Market and that worked well, but the pendulum has swung too far the other way now and as reform appears to be impossible, it's time to say goodbye I'm afraid.
You have covered the Labour Party gravy train, what's your thoughts on the Tories
I'm not referring to any particular party in my post. Apart from the MEPs themselves there are the unelected commissioners, of which the Kinnocks are an example, where the expression "gravy train" hardly begins to describe the excesses. Take a read of this article: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/k...rain-xcxbdkx6rYou have covered the Labour Party gravy train, what's your thoughts on the Tories
Note: there are 28 commissioners!
In the EU parliament/commission there are 32,000 civil servants and 751 MEP’s. It costs 1.8 billion euros to run, equivalent to 2.3 million euros per MEP.
12 times a year the EU parliament moves to Strasbourg at a cost of 200 million euros. It involves moving then providing accommodation for 4000 people with all the associated documentation/files from Brussels just for 4 days, 12 times a year.
This is why I want out of the EU - the obscene extravagance of it all!
Oscar Wilde once called a cynic someone who knew the cost of everything and the value of nothing. I worked with and usually against the EU Commission for a good proportion of my career. I found them competent and coherent but equally risk averse, arrogant and at times spendthrift in the manner you describe.
But when making decisions, particularly major investment ones you have to look at the benefits as well as the costs. The government's own economic analysis placed in the House of Commons library after Johnson's withdrawal deal estimates that over a 15 year period the UK'S GDP will be between 2.1 and 3.9% pa smaller than if we retained membership.
The upper limit is based on low to no net inward migration from the EU of a type that a goodly proportion of leave voters would likely be comfortable with. It also factors in the financial settlement and the cessation of our net contributions. It was the least worst option on the table and if as intimated we plan to diverge away from EU standards and towards a basic free trade agreement these figures could be higher.
Using your metric that equates to an economic benefit loss of between 65 and 110 million euros per annum for each MEP. In a business case it membership on economic grounds regardless of a proportion of EU profligacy would be a no brainer.
We have to recognise that other factors were and still are at play for many people that drove the result and leave we will on 31st January for better or worse.
It probably does but a lot of the consequence of Brexit will be felt over the next 2-5 years so moving on completely from pointing that out isn't responsible leadership, and fearing yet more Brexit fatigue isn't the best reason to act that way. If the accepted narrative becomes that the issues we may face going forward are no longer to do with Brexit then isn't it the same as accepting that austerity was a result of Labour run finances rather than global banking crisis? Boris Johnson comes out and says no one else did more to help bankers and no one cares because most still believe it was a labour government responsible.
Lewis didn't make it through to the next round of the ballot, but Emily Thornberry did - unfortunately, Richard Burgon scraped into the next stage in the Deputy leader competition;-
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51089217
Hasn't Em's displayed some disparaging white van driver and Brexit voter opinions that may hinder a love in up north ?
Lets prey they select a non London social elite resident , and one in tune with the real world .
Kent isn't 'up north'!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30139832
Presumably you want Wales out of the UK too given the obscene extravagance of the houses of parliament and associated nonsense?
With respect we are talking a whole magnitude of scale difference there. If someone suggests we move Parliament twelve times a year to Manchester to fit in with the Northern Powerhouse scenario then I may agree with you!
The whole expenses scandal would never have occurred if I had been in charge of approving MP's expenses. During my working life I worked for several large companies and travelled abroad a lot for business purposes. In all that time I could account for literally every penny I spent in the form of proper receipts, and expenses were limited strictly to travel costs and subsistence - that's it. I expected the people who worked for me to do the same and they knew it. There were no "daily allowances", clothing allowances, entertainment allowances, or duck house allowances.
How timely this report on John Bercow's expenses in relation to the posts above!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51109296
He would not have got away with that on my watch!
Taxi to Nottingham is obscene but the rest needs to be seen in context.
Common's and Lord's cost 600 million a year to run. EU parliament operates for not far off 10 times as many people. You can call that a whole new magnitude of scale if you like but I won't.
Rather than MPs move out of the 'palace of westminster' and away from the pomp and ceremony we will instead spend multiple billions renovating it.
Sorry, I was only talking about the House of Commons. The House of Lords should be scrapped and replaced with an elected assembly but with proper control of the purse strings.
I find it worrying how many Christian's voted brexit
I shouldn't be surprised but I do find it worrying
Love thy neighbour , unless hes an immigrant
If you read my post above you will see why I voted for Brexit. Yes, my Christian belief influenced my decision because the scandalous waste of public money supporting an unaccountable gravy train organisation is a moral issue.
Love thy neighbour: A lawyer asked Jesus the question "who is my neighbour?" In response, Jesus tells the parable of the Good Samaritan, the conclusion of which is that the neighbour in the parable is the man who shows mercy to the injured man—that is, the Samaritan.
As it happens I know a little bit about immigrants as I formed a local community group in my town which sponsored a Syrian refugee family to come to live in safety in Wales, so you don't need to lecture me about loving my neighbour thanks. I have also worked amongst some of the poorest people in Uganda and Malawi and unless I am mistaken they were people of colour too. You are free to express your prejudiced views against Christians of course, but you need be very careful before you make these generalisations otherwise you might look rather foolish.
No doubt about it a large number of brexit voters were racists , we want our country back idiots , they dont like being called racist but that's what a significant proportion of them are
Are you a person of colour ?
Because unless you are , you cant possibly say
You certainly didn't wake up that day with a sense of dread , I bet you were dancing in church that night as brexit is exactly what you wanted so no dread for you
Why do I need to be a "person of colour" (I am white BTW, is that not a colour?) to have woken up with a sense of dread? No, I was not dancing for joy as it happens because I know the vote has split the country and caused a lot of bitterness. That is not my fault, it was the fault of David Cameron for not correctly setting out the terms of the referendum. There should have been a minimum 67% of the vote in favour of one side or the other. That way no-one could turn around and claim that it was a close run thing and not a real test of public opinion etc etc...If 67% voted remain then the status quo would prevail, 67% to leave, we would leave. Simple.
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