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Thread: Is Clive being racist calling folk racist

  1. #26

    Re: Is Clive being racist calling folk racist

    Quote Originally Posted by Gofer Blue View Post
    If you read my post above you will see why I voted for Brexit. Yes, my Christian belief influenced my decision because the scandalous waste of public money supporting an unaccountable gravy train organisation is a moral issue.

    Love thy neighbour: A lawyer asked Jesus the question "who is my neighbour?" In response, Jesus tells the parable of the Good Samaritan, the conclusion of which is that the neighbour in the parable is the man who shows mercy to the injured man—that is, the Samaritan.

    As it happens I know a little bit about immigrants as I formed a local community group in my town which sponsored a Syrian refugee family to come to live in safety in Wales, so you don't need to lecture me about loving my neighbour thanks. I have also worked amongst some of the poorest people in Uganda and Malawi and unless I am mistaken they were people of colour too. You are free to express your prejudiced views against Christians of course, but you need be very careful before you make these generalisations otherwise you might look rather foolish.
    I am currently involved in sponsoring a Syrian family to come and live in wales , I do it because I want to not because god tells me to be good or some sense of christian moral , which is bullshit

    You lot think that being christian makes you a moral person , what a load of crap

    The local chess club donate to the starving in africa , go and join them !

    I cant stand tory Christians , give to charity to make themselves all high and mighty then vote for social policies that force families to food banks

    Pompous hypocritical idiots

  2. #27

    Re: Is Clive being racist calling folk racist

    A lawyer asked jesus a question ?

    This is coming from a guidebook written hundreds of years after the emergence of this fantasy figure and you are quoting thisxas some sort of fact ? Its complete cobblers

    You can believe it if you want but all this starving kids in africa are in need of help , where is this jesus fella now they need him ?

    Nowhere , because he doesn't exist except in the minds of people afraid of death and desperate for an afterlife

    There are no tories in heaven , not because tories are laggards, it's because heaven doesn't exist

  3. #28

    Re: Is Clive being racist calling folk racist

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
    I am currently involved in sponsoring a Syrian family to come and live in wales , I do it because I want to not because god tells me to be good or some sense of christian moral , which is bullshit

    Great. Is this a local community sponsorship scheme? Where will the family be settled?

    You lot think that being christian makes you a moral person , what a load of crap

    No, but becoming a Christian has changed my life around. Before that I was an extremely selfish person with little regard for the plight of others. I would never have got involved in Africa or resettling Syrian refugees.

    The local chess club donate to the starving in africa , go and join them !
    ???

    I cant stand tory Christians , give to charity to make themselves all high and mighty then vote for social policies that force families to food banks

    Pompous hypocritical idiots
    Good job you're not referring to me then as I am none of those things!

    You and I should meet face-to-face for a chat sometime rather than get embroiled in this keyboard warrior stuff which is in danger of descending into the sort of vitriolic nonsense frequently seen elsewhere on this board. Do you get to most home games at the CCFC?

  4. #29

    Re: Is Clive being racist calling folk racist

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
    A lawyer asked jesus a question ?

    This is coming from a guidebook written hundreds of years after the emergence of this fantasy figure and you are quoting thisxas some sort of fact ? Its complete cobblers

    You can believe it if you want but all this starving kids in africa are in need of help , where is this jesus fella now they need him ?

    Nowhere , because he doesn't exist except in the minds of people afraid of death and desperate for an afterlife

    There are no tories in heaven , not because tories are laggards, it's because heaven doesn't exist
    Even if the whole thing is indeed a work of fantasy, that does not alter the fundamental truth of the parable does it? I suppose a modern day version would be for example where a Syrian man comes across an injured ISIS fighter, someone who is hated by the entire Syrian population, and having compassion on him takes him to a doctor/hospital and pays for the treatment himself. That would be a true case of loving thy neighbour.

    Jesus is not around physically (until the second coming), so meanwhile Christians are to be his earthly hands and feet. BTW I am neither afraid of death (maybe the dying bit!) and not "desperate" for an afterlife. Only the honest belief in Jesus will see you into heaven -all our good works count for nowt. Hence whether we like it or not, there are likely to be Tories in heaven!

  5. #30

    Re: Is Clive being racist calling folk racist

    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post
    But what if, as happened, less than 67% voted either way?

    I do agree that a bigger majority should have been required for change, but anything over 50% leave would still have resulted in major clamour for leaving.
    If less than 67% voted either way then the status quo would stand i.e. we would remain in the EU. That is whole point - there has to be a significant proportion of voters, hence strictly nlt 67%. That would be the rule and hence forget about any clamour either way with anything less.

  6. #31

    Re: Is Clive being racist calling folk racist

    Quote Originally Posted by Gofer Blue View Post
    I'm not referring to any particular party in my post. Apart from the MEPs themselves there are the unelected commissioners, of which the Kinnocks are an example, where the expression "gravy train" hardly begins to describe the excesses. Take a read of this article: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/k...rain-xcxbdkx6r

    Note: there are 28 commissioners!

    In the EU parliament/commission there are 32,000 civil servants and 751 MEP’s. It costs 1.8 billion euros to run, equivalent to 2.3 million euros per MEP.

    12 times a year the EU parliament moves to Strasbourg at a cost of 200 million euros. It involves moving then providing accommodation for 4000 people with all the associated documentation/files from Brussels just for 4 days, 12 times a year.

    This is why I want out of the EU - the obscene extravagance of it all!
    Good post.

  7. #32

    Re: Is Clive being racist calling folk racist

    Quote Originally Posted by Gofer Blue View Post
    If less than 67% voted either way then the status quo would stand i.e. we would remain in the EU. That is whole point - there has to be a significant proportion of voters, hence strictly nlt 67%. That would be the rule and hence forget about any clamour either way with anything less.
    I agree it should have been set there, but had 60% voted to Leave but nothing was done, the last three years would have been even worse than it has been.

  8. #33

    Re: Is Clive being racist calling folk racist

    Quote Originally Posted by Gofer Blue View Post
    Good job you're not referring to me then as I am none of those things!

    You and I should meet face-to-face for a chat sometime rather than get embroiled in this keyboard warrior stuff which is in danger of descending into the sort of vitriolic nonsense frequently seen elsewhere on this board. Do you get to most home games at the CCFC?
    The local chess club do as much good work as Christians for the less well off

    You are a tory christian are you not ?

    Yes it's a Syrian family to be relocated to the vale of glamorgan

    So god has made you moral ? This is fantasy island stuff

  9. #34

    Re: Is Clive being racist calling folk racist

    Quote Originally Posted by Gofer Blue View Post
    I'm not referring to any particular party in my post. Apart from the MEPs themselves there are the unelected commissioners, of which the Kinnocks are an example, where the expression "gravy train" hardly begins to describe the excesses. Take a read of this article: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/k...rain-xcxbdkx6r

    Note: there are 28 commissioners!

    In the EU parliament/commission there are 32,000 civil servants and 751 MEP’s. It costs 1.8 billion euros to run, equivalent to 2.3 million euros per MEP.

    12 times a year the EU parliament moves to Strasbourg at a cost of 200 million euros. It involves moving then providing accommodation for 4000 people with all the associated documentation/files from Brussels just for 4 days, 12 times a year.

    This is why I want out of the EU - the obscene extravagance of it all!

    Oscar Wilde once called a cynic someone who knew the cost of everything and the value of nothing. I worked with and usually against the EU Commission for a good proportion of my career. I found them competent and coherent but equally risk averse, arrogant and at times spendthrift in the manner you describe.

    But when making decisions, particularly major investment ones you have to look at the benefits as well as the costs. The government's own economic analysis placed in the House of Commons library after Johnson's withdrawal deal estimates that over a 15 year period the UK'S GDP will be between 2.1 and 3.9% pa smaller than if we retained membership.

    The upper limit is based on low to no net inward migration from the EU of a type that a goodly proportion of leave voters would likely be comfortable with. It also factors in the financial settlement and the cessation of our net contributions. It was the least worst option on the table and if as intimated we plan to diverge away from EU standards and towards a basic free trade agreement these figures could be higher.

    Using your metric that equates to an economic benefit loss of between 65 and 110 million euros per annum for each MEP. In a business case it membership on economic grounds regardless of a proportion of EU profligacy would be a no brainer.

    We have to recognise that other factors were and still are at play for many people that drove the result and leave we will on 31st January for better or worse.

  10. #35

    Re: Is Clive being racist calling folk racist

    Quote Originally Posted by Gofer Blue View Post
    Sorry, I was only talking about the House of Commons. The House of Lords should be scrapped and replaced with an elected assembly but with proper control of the purse strings.
    That's what I am driving at. Where is the line between recognising the benefits and wishing to reform from within and wanting to leave? The lord's isn't a new thing, why aren't you advocating leaving the UK?

    The next decade will be about denying that analysis like this (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.blo...it-for-the-u-k) is true. I based my vote on 2 things

    1) this premise, that we would need only see a small economic hit for the net contribution to be dwarfed by lost growth.

    2) that being able to move almost completely freely around loads of varied and interesting land is life-altering. That right will be handed out based on income/wealth now.

  11. #36

    Re: Is Clive being racist calling folk racist

    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post
    I agree it should have been set there, but had 60% voted to Leave but nothing was done, the last three years would have been even worse than it has been.
    Why? I voted leave but like everyone else I would have known about the 67% rule before I voted, so no argument surely. If the vote was 66.9% then I would ask for a recount!

  12. #37

    Re: Is Clive being racist calling folk racist

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    That's what I am driving at. Where is the line between recognising the benefits and wishing to reform from within and wanting to leave? The lord's isn't a new thing, why aren't you advocating leaving the UK?

    The next decade will be about denying that analysis like this (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.blo...it-for-the-u-k) is true. I based my vote on 2 things

    1) this premise, that we would need only see a small economic hit for the net contribution to be dwarfed by lost growth.

    2) that being able to move almost completely freely around loads of varied and interesting land is life-altering. That right will be handed out based on income/wealth now.
    These sound like Project Fear arguments to me. Let's wait and see.

  13. #38

    Re: Is Clive being racist calling folk racist

    Quote Originally Posted by Gofer Blue View Post
    These sound like Project Fear arguments to me. Let's wait and see.
    There's no saving you buddy...

  14. #39

    Re: Is Clive being racist calling folk racist

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
    The local chess club do as much good work as Christians for the less well off

    You are a tory christian are you not ?

    Yes it's a Syrian family to be relocated to the vale of glamorgan

    So god has made you moral ? This is fantasy island stuff
    Why this obsession with good works? I have never claimed that Christians have a monopoly on good works. Indeed in Ephesians 2:8-9 it says: “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.”

    If you recall you taunted me with your comment about love thy neighbour unless he is an immigrant, as if I am some rabid far-right racist. My example of bringing the Syrian refugee family was simply in response to that comment, not some additional bragging rights about good works. Incidentally our community sponsorship group consists of people of faith and of no faith, I just happened to have had the motivation to kick it off.

    Why do you also seem to characterise a Christian as some kind of racist Brexit/Tory-voting toff? It makes me wonder how many Christians you know personally. For the record I would describe myself as apolitical in as much as I have no political affiliations. I suppose if you wanted to classify me I would be leaning towards socialist but my ideal political party would be a kind of pick and mix of policies from all parties but firmly based on justice and equality for all.

    I don’t think God has made me a moral person but he brought me to the realisation that I have fallen way short of the person that Jesus expects me to be. Hence I aim to be the best person I can be (but will never be “perfect”) for him and to be his hands and feet wherever I find myself. “Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me” (Matthew 25:40).

    If you would like to meet to have a chat and a drink with me, the offer is there. I do not get to many games any more but I do have a Flexiticket so I get down to the CCS when I can. I used one last weekend to watch the Swansea game – not a classic unfortunately!

  15. #40

    Re: Is Clive being racist calling folk racist

    Quote Originally Posted by Gofer Blue View Post
    These sound like Project Fear arguments to me. Let's wait and see.
    Yes we are leaving so we will now see if the prophets of doom were right , as a once famous poster back in the day " lets wait and see " and I cant wait for wait and see moment , there such fun.

  16. #41

    Re: Is Clive being racist calling folk racist

    Quote Originally Posted by Gofer Blue View Post
    Why this obsession with good works? I have never claimed that Christians have a monopoly on good works. Indeed in Ephesians 2:8-9 it says: “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.”

    If you recall you taunted me with your comment about love thy neighbour unless he is an immigrant, as if I am some rabid far-right racist. My example of bringing the Syrian refugee family was simply in response to that comment, not some additional bragging rights about good works. Incidentally our community sponsorship group consists of people of faith and of no faith, I just happened to have had the motivation to kick it off.

    Why do you also seem to characterise a Christian as some kind of racist Brexit/Tory-voting toff? It makes me wonder how many Christians you know personally. For the record I would describe myself as apolitical in as much as I have no political affiliations. I suppose if you wanted to classify me I would be leaning towards socialist but my ideal political party would be a kind of pick and mix of policies from all parties but firmly based on justice and equality for all.

    I don’t think God has made me a moral person but he brought me to the realisation that I have fallen way short of the person that Jesus expects me to be. Hence I aim to be the best person I can be (but will never be “perfect”) for him and to be his hands and feet wherever I find myself. “Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me” (Matthew 25:40).

    If you would like to meet to have a chat and a drink with me, the offer is there. I do not get to many games any more but I do have a Flexiticket so I get down to the CCS when I can. I used one last weekend to watch the Swansea game – not a classic unfortunately!
    Your right .

    I know some wonderful Christians who work tirelessly in the community helping the vulnerable , a couple of which maybe Tory voters actually ,it doesn't make them a racist Brexit / Tory-voting Toff's , it makes them better than the folk who do nothing .

  17. #42

    Re: Is Clive being racist calling folk racist

    Quote Originally Posted by Gofer Blue View Post
    Why? I voted leave but like everyone else I would have known about the 67% rule before I voted, so no argument surely. If the vote was 66.9% then I would ask for a recount!
    You think the likes of Farage and Johnson (who used the campaign as a springboard) would just shrug their shoulders? Would the Mail and Express back down?

    Absolutely not, the rhetoric (which in June 2016 was very much aimed at immigration) would have increased. There would be outrage that 50% more people voted to leave than stay but the Political Elite are thwarting the Will Of The People.

  18. #43

    Re: Is Clive being racist calling folk racist

    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post
    You think the likes of Farage and Johnson (who used the campaign as a springboard) would just shrug their shoulders? Would the Mail and Express back down?

    Absolutely not, the rhetoric (which in June 2016 was very much aimed at immigration) would have increased. There would be outrage that 50% more people voted to leave than stay but the Political Elite are thwarting the Will Of The People.
    Why should I care what Farage, Johnson, the Daily Mail or the Daily Express think/say? What is so difficult to understand - there are no shades of grey here, 67% means 67%, full stop.

  19. #44

    Re: Is Clive being racist calling folk racist

    Quote Originally Posted by Gofer Blue View Post
    Why should I care what Farage, Johnson, the Daily Mail or the Daily Express think/say? What is so difficult to understand - there are no shades of grey here, 67% means 67%, full stop.
    I haven't said you cared what they think. I don't care what they think. I'm asking what you think they would do.

    The idea that they would say "oh well, we needed 67% but only got 60%" and lay down their arms is crazy. They'd double their efforts.

  20. #45

    Re: Is Clive being racist calling folk racist

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    Your right .

    I know some wonderful Christians who work tirelessly in the community helping the vulnerable , a couple of which maybe Tory voters actually ,it doesn't make them a racist Brexit / Tory-voting Toff's , it makes them better than the folk who do nothing .
    If you are near Cardiff maybe you could introduce some of them to this Sludge chap. He doesn't seem keen to meet me for a chat, unless in fairness he hasn't seen my last two posts yet. Perhaps he is nervous that I will not fit with his perceived stereotype Christian?

  21. #46

    Re: Is Clive being racist calling folk racist

    Quote Originally Posted by Gofer Blue View Post
    Why this obsession with good works? I have never claimed that Christians have a monopoly on good works. Indeed in Ephesians 2:8-9 it says: “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.”

    If you recall you taunted me with your comment about love thy neighbour unless he is an immigrant, as if I am some rabid far-right racist. My example of bringing the Syrian refugee family was simply in response to that comment, not some additional bragging rights about good works. Incidentally our community sponsorship group consists of people of faith and of no faith, I just happened to have had the motivation to kick it off.

    Why do you also seem to characterise a Christian as some kind of racist Brexit/Tory-voting toff? It makes me wonder how many Christians you know personally. For the record I would describe myself as apolitical in as much as I have no political affiliations. I suppose if you wanted to classify me I would be leaning towards socialist but my ideal political party would be a kind of pick and mix of policies from all parties but firmly based on justice and equality for all.

    I don’t think God has made me a moral person but he brought me to the realisation that I have fallen way short of the person that Jesus expects me to be. Hence I aim to be the best person I can be (but will never be “perfect”) for him and to be his hands and feet wherever I find myself. “Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me” (Matthew 25:40).

    If you would like to meet to have a chat and a drink with me, the offer is there. I do not get to many games any more but I do have a Flexiticket so I get down to the CCS when I can. I used one last weekend to watch the Swansea game – not a classic unfortunately!
    Now you are quoting bits out of a book written by people many years after this chap snuffed it , saying it's his very words ......and you live your life by this nonsense ?

    And you voted brexit ?

    Those two reasons are enough in themselves to turn down the offer of a chat

    You are quite clearly a christian whose morals end at the point of being part of a multi cultural , multi national europe

    In other words you've got morals , in your case christian morals but they only exist to the point that you like them

    Those are not the kind of morals that stand up to scrutiny , brexit is going to stuff many people up the arse and ruin this country for generations ......and you voted for it ........so good luck to your grandchildren and pray for them , they are going to need it

  22. #47

    Re: Is Clive being racist calling folk racist

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    Your right .

    I know some wonderful Christians who work tirelessly in the community helping the vulnerable , a couple of which maybe Tory voters actually ,it doesn't make them a racist Brexit / Tory-voting Toff's , it makes them better than the folk who do nothing .
    I do loads to help people and give loads to charity , dont need some moral sense of duty forced on me by something that doesn't exist making me do it

  23. #48

    Re: Is Clive being racist calling folk racist

    Quote Originally Posted by Gofer Blue View Post
    These sound like Project Fear arguments to me. Let's wait and see.
    Do you deny climate change as well ?

  24. #49

    Re: Is Clive being racist calling folk racist

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    There's no saving you buddy...
    Hes in complete denial

  25. #50

    Re: Is Clive being racist calling folk racist

    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post
    I haven't said you cared what they think. I don't care what they think. I'm asking what you think they would do.

    The idea that they would say "oh well, we needed 67% but only got 60%" and lay down their arms is crazy. They'd double their efforts.
    They would double their efforts to do what? They lost. End of story. Maybe come back in 20 years and test the waters again. Once in a lifetime vote and all that...!

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