Vast Collection of Cardiff City Memorabilia for sale at Auction

[The Lone Gunman]

Sorry, someone else above referred to the possibility that the club sold some of the stuff at auction. Yes, some would have been acquired from different sources, but I know the bound volumes of programmes were from the club.

Not all of them, although the 1920's volumes almost certainly were.

I was talking to a friend last night who was employed by the club for a period during the 1980's and we agreed that some of these items were almost certainly given to the owner in lieu of payment for services rendered, while others would have been given to him simply because the club had no use for them but he did - Lot 850 being the best example.

Having seen them first hand, I can confirm those ledgers are fascinating for anoraks like me who are interested in the club's history, but in reality they are just a collection of big, heavy, dusty old books full of handwritten notes which would mean absolutely nothing to the vast majority of modern football fans. If the club did buy them back, I have no idea what it would do with them. They are not the sort of thing that could go on public display and the only time they would be likely to be accessed at all would be if a historian decided to write a book about the relevant period and found the time to spend hours trawling through the ledgers looking for anything of interest.

[The Lone Gunman]

So who is it - the author?

Not the author you're thinking of.

[The Lone Gunman]

The two people who seem to know i.e. Cardiff55 and TLG are being very coy about the whole thing.

I'm not being coy about it. If the owner of these items wants his identity to be known that's his business, not mine. However, I will say that his identity should be blatantly obvious to anyone who has a genuine interest in the club's history, particularly if they were following the club in the 1980's.

[@CCFCProgrammes]

I'm not being coy about it. If the owner of these items wants his identity to be known that's his business, not mine. However, I will say that his identity should be blatantly obvious to anyone who has a genuine interest in the club's history, particularly if they were following the club in the 1980's.

I’m fully aware who’s lots these are......sadly I don’t think the club will give two seconds of interest

[The Lone Gunman]

I’m fully aware who’s lots these are......sadly I don’t think the club will give two seconds of interest

I'm sure one of the directors will be interested, but the club itself? Probably not.

When some of these items were given to the owner back in the Eighties, they had almost certainly been sat in a box in a Ninian Park storeroom for decades gathering dust. Personally, I'm very glad that he gained access to them when he did for two reasons - firstly, his countless hours of research with them has gone a long way towards ensuring that the history of the club is well-documented and, secondly, if he hadn't taken ownership of them in the Eighties, some of the items would almost certainly have been thrown away long ago.

[Enoch Mort]

I'm not being coy about it. If the owner of these items wants his identity to be known that's his business, not mine. However, I will say that his identity should be blatantly obvious to anyone who has a genuine interest in the club's history, particularly if they were following the club in the 1980's.

Well, yes, I think we can all guess which particular person with a deep interest and knowledge of the history of CCFC is the vendor. What angers me is what seems to be, in the past, a blatant disregard by the club in its own history to allow such important material to be lost to private hands with the eventual likelihood of it being spread to the four winds. The Trust in the past have suggested to the club that they set up a Museum, they probably did so unaware of the fact that the club probably don’t have any exhibits to put in it. In respect of your question about who would want the dusty old ledgers, you are correct that they are probably not suitable exhibit material but there is an organisation located next door to CCS run by the Council who would love to have them, conserve them and make them available to the public to consult.

Another thing that occurs to me is that this particular auction may only be the tip of the iceberg. It is common sense for an auctioneer not to flood the market so what isn’t for sale at the moment? Looking at the lots there are virtually no 1930s programmes, no Wartime programmes, no Southern League programmes prior to 1920. Are there shirts, medals, international caps? What about material related to Riverside FC ? I wonder what the club doesn’t know it doesn’t have ?

Anyway, as I said before, it all seems to be pre VT but he can go some way to redeem himself and get it all back and keep it where it belongs. At the ground and on display.

[The Lone Gunman]

Well, yes, I think we can all guess which particular person with a deep interest and knowledge of the history of CCFC is the vendor. What angers me is what seems to be, in the past, a blatant disregard by the club in its own history to allow such important material to be lost to private hands with the eventual likelihood of it being spread to the four winds.

In respect of your question about who would want the dusty old ledgers, you are correct that they are probably not suitable exhibit material but there is an organisation located next door to CCS run by the Council who would love to have them, conserve them and make them available to the public to consult.

Bear in mind that if, as Cardiff55 suggests and as seems almost certain, some of this material such as the old ledgers was passed to the owner during the 1980's, we are talking about a period when the club often didn't have enough cash on the premises to pay bus fares for its apprentices, let alone the money to pay for the kind of services the gentleman concerned was providing.

To be honest, I very much doubt this material was regarded as important by anyone at the club back then, and I doubt it would be now either. I'm sure the Glamorgan archives would indeed be the best place for it, but it certainly wouldn't have occurred to anyone working at CCFC in the Eighties to send it there.

I think it's important to underline that many of the memorabilia items in this collection were obtained by the owner privately from sources other than the football club itself, while some of it is reasonably common and some of it has very little value. For whatever reason, the owner has decided to sell it, and it appears to me that he's selling his whole collection. I'd be very surprised if he has any other items of significant value, either monetary or in historical terms.

[cardiff55]

Well, yes, I think we can all guess which particular person with a deep interest and knowledge of the history of CCFC is the vendor. What angers me is what seems to be, in the past, a blatant disregard by the club in its own history to allow such important material to be lost to private hands with the eventual likelihood of it being spread to the four winds. The Trust in the past have suggested to the club that they set up a Museum, they probably did so unaware of the fact that the club probably don’t have any exhibits to put in it. In respect of your question about who would want the dusty old ledgers, you are correct that they are probably not suitable exhibit material but there is an organisation located next door to CCS run by the Council who would love to have them, conserve them and make them available to the public to consult.

Another thing that occurs to me is that this particular auction may only be the tip of the iceberg. It is common sense for an auctioneer not to flood the market so what isn’t for sale at the moment? Looking at the lots there are virtually no 1930s programmes, no Wartime programmes, no Southern League programmes prior to 1920. Are there shirts, medals, international caps? What about material related to Riverside FC ? I wonder what the club doesn’t know it doesn’t have ?

Anyway, as I said before, it all seems to be pre VT but he can go some way to redeem himself and get it all back and keep it where it belongs. At the ground and on display.

I think the stuff was shared between two people. When the other fellow died, there was an auction but I only ever saw one lot of a bound volume which didn't sell. It may be his family disposed of the rest privately. And a number of pre War programmes have surfaced over the last few years, without cover, which means they would have been split from a bound volume. But I think there was a 50/50 split of the stuff than came out of the club, between the two of them.

I would bid on these but need to pay for my holiday this month!

[Organ Morgan.]

My money from the off was on Shepherd as the seller. I may have had a few quid on Borley, Alm and a landlord whose name cannot be mentioned as each-way punts too.

[Mr Soul '68]

To be honest, I very much doubt this material was regarded as important by anyone at the club back then, and I doubt it would be now either. I'm sure the Glamorgan archives would indeed be the best place for it, but it certainly wouldn't have occurred to anyone working at CCFC in the Eighties to send it there.

I know for a fact that the Cardiff Story Museum based in the Old Library on The Hayes would definitely be interested with this material, if it was bequeathed to them

[Enoch Mort]

Bear in mind that if, as Cardiff55 suggests and as seems almost certain, some of this material such as the old ledgers was passed to the owner during the 1980's, we are talking about a period when the club often didn't have enough cash on the premises to pay bus fares for its apprentices, let alone the money to pay for the kind of services the gentleman concerned was providing.

To be honest, I very much doubt this material was regarded as important by anyone at the club back then, and I doubt it would be now either. I'm sure the Glamorgan archives would indeed be the best place for it, but it certainly wouldn't have occurred to anyone working at CCFC in the Eighties to send it there.

I think it's important to underline that many of the memorabilia items in this collection were obtained by the owner privately from sources other than the football club itself, while some of it is reasonably common and some of it has very little value. For whatever reason, the owner has decided to sell it, and it appears to me that he's selling his whole collection. I'd be very surprised if he has any other items of significant value, either monetary or in historical terms.

I mentioned what else may possibly become available as, during the 2008/09 season you may recall that facsimile reproductions of old programmes were reproduced in matchday programmes for that season. These reproductions included programmes from wartime, 30s, 20s and Southern League. so they must have existed in the possession of the club or the collector at least then, perhaps they don't now. I accept what you say that some of this memorabilia may have come from sources other than the club but for the Trust suggestion that the club set up a museum to be progressed there will need to be exhibits and this batch contains the sort of stuff that would be suitable. At a top estimate of only £15k one would have thought that the club could intervene to do a deal with the vendor to acquire the lot. Such an opportunity is unlikely ever to arise again.

[The Lone Gunman]

I mentioned what else may possibly become available as, during the 2008/09 season you may recall that facsimile reproductions of old programmes were reproduced in matchday programmes for that season. These reproductions included programmes from wartime, 30s, 20s and Southern League. so they must have existed in the possession of the club or the collector at least then, perhaps they don't now.

Perhaps the club does have some programmes from the period you mention or maybe the owner of this batch does indeed have a few, but I think it's more likely that they were borrowed from other collectors in order to have copies taken. For instance, I have a City-supporting mate who used to collect programmes and has some incredibly valuable issues from the club's earliest years. I don't think he collects them these days, but no doubt his most valuable examples are tucked away somewhere for safekeeping.

[Maurice Swan]

Seemingly, the result at Carlisle means £135,000 to the club from FA. Wouldn't it be nice if the club came out and said - we'll use that for the auction???

[Divine Wright]

This is some quality 1920’s trolling tbf

https://www.easyliveauction.com/cata...s-172-lot-835/

Wouldn’t mind that on a t-shirt

[Tuerto]

This is some quality 1920’s trolling tbf

https://www.easyliveauction.com/cata...s-172-lot-835/

Wouldn’t mind that on a t-shirt

That is quality.

[bluemoon]

holy smoke... would love to know the story behind where the haul has originated from... unless of course its posted in the comments somewhere which of course ive not read as yet

[cardiff55]

holy smoke... would love to know the story behind where the haul has originated from... unless of course its posted in the comments somewhere which of course ive not read as yet

That's right.

[Pontprennau Bluebird]

This would be a good project for the Trust. There was talk of a Ccfc museum a few Years Ago?

[Enoch Mort]

This would be a good project for the Trust. There was talk of a Ccfc museum a few Years Ago?

Earlier in this thread Keith Morgan said that he had brought up the question of this collection with the club, let's hope the club get on the case and sharpish as the auction is on the 25th. Offer the vendor an appropriate and acceptable price and get it off the market.

[MacAdder]

Lot 869, vinyl contains recordings of the 1927 triump, including first ever sung "Abide with me" at the FA Cup final.

It would be a snip at £100 to £150!

[Enoch Mort]

Wales Online have picked it up. Power to CCMB !

Hopefully the club will sit up and take notice


https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/...ction-17584026

[Michael Morris]

Cardiff City fans' boost as historic club collection controversially put up for auction is suddenly withdrawn from sale

Bluebirds officials have been involved in behind the scenes negotiations to preserve the memorabilia, which features the rich history of Wales' capital city club

A host of prized Cardiff City items due to be controversially auctioned off this week have been withdrawn from sale, Wales Online has learned.

The memorabilia, believed to have been in the ownership of the club's historian, was due to raise thousands of pounds at an auction in East Anglia on Saturday.

However, behind the scenes moves by concerned Bluebirds officials have ensured the collection - which dates back to the beginning of the last century - will be retained and kept within the Welsh capital.

It has been officially pulled from the auction, where 40 lots were set to go on sale this weekend.

It is not clear yet exactly where the cherished collection will be rehoused by the club.

The news will delight Cardiff City fans, many of whom were alarmed and angered that some of the most important things in the club's rich history could be sold off to private buyers.

There had been calls from Bluebirds supporters for the club to intervene. Failing that, it was argued Cardiff Council, the National Museum, or the National Library of Wales should seek to buy the items and preserve them here.

The memorabilia features everything from unique 1927 FA Cup Final mementos, to bound volumes detailing Board meetings, to player contracts - including those involving Welsh legends John Toshack, who was sold to Liverpool, and John Charles, who was signed from Roma.

Many of the minutes of the Board meetings, from 1915 to 1972, are in copperplate writing and described by the auctioneers as "A truly unique piece of club history being the original Directors Minute Ledgers, Weekly Payment Records, Wages Books, Share Register, etc. Must be viewed (approx 35 volumes) Heavy."

It is understood the collection was gathering dust and rescued from the old Ninian Park, when the ground was demolished 11 years ago.

But there has been a behind the scenes dispute about legal ownership and the Bluebirds hierarchy were understood to be ready to embark down that route, if necessary, rather than let the items be sold.

Cardiff director Steve Borley and the club's Head Of Operations Wayne Nash have been locked in behind the scenes dialogue to try to resolve the issue.

As a result, we have been told the matter has been amicably settled internally, with the items being removed from auction.

It remains unclear at this stage what will happen with the collection, or whether it will be rehoused within Cardiff City Stadium.

However, the news will delight Cardiff City Supporters Trust. Tim Hartley, one of their Board members had said: "It would be disastrous if this unique memorabilia, such as the board minutes and contract documents, were lost not just to the football club, but the capital city and Wales as well."

He had called for the club, or the authorities, to step in "as a matter of urgency to ensure the preservation of these items for future generations."

The behind the scenes negotiations have led to the Bluebirds getting their way and ensuring the collection is withdrawn from sale

[soulsurfer3]

Cardiff City fans' boost as historic club collection controversially put up for auction is suddenly withdrawn from sale

Bluebirds officials have been involved in behind the scenes negotiations to preserve the memorabilia, which features the rich history of Wales' capital city club

A host of prized Cardiff City items due to be controversially auctioned off this week have been withdrawn from sale, Wales Online has learned.

The memorabilia, believed to have been in the ownership of the club's historian, was due to raise thousands of pounds at an auction in East Anglia on Saturday.

However, behind the scenes moves by concerned Bluebirds officials have ensured the collection - which dates back to the beginning of the last century - will be retained and kept within the Welsh capital.

It has been officially pulled from the auction, where 40 lots were set to go on sale this weekend.

It is not clear yet exactly where the cherished collection will be rehoused by the club.

The news will delight Cardiff City fans, many of whom were alarmed and angered that some of the most important things in the club's rich history could be sold off to private buyers.

There had been calls from Bluebirds supporters for the club to intervene. Failing that, it was argued Cardiff Council, the National Museum, or the National Library of Wales should seek to buy the items and preserve them here.

The memorabilia features everything from unique 1927 FA Cup Final mementos, to bound volumes detailing Board meetings, to player contracts - including those involving Welsh legends John Toshack, who was sold to Liverpool, and John Charles, who was signed from Roma.

Many of the minutes of the Board meetings, from 1915 to 1972, are in copperplate writing and described by the auctioneers as "A truly unique piece of club history being the original Directors Minute Ledgers, Weekly Payment Records, Wages Books, Share Register, etc. Must be viewed (approx 35 volumes) Heavy."

It is understood the collection was gathering dust and rescued from the old Ninian Park, when the ground was demolished 11 years ago.

But there has been a behind the scenes dispute about legal ownership and the Bluebirds hierarchy were understood to be ready to embark down that route, if necessary, rather than let the items be sold.

Cardiff director Steve Borley and the club's Head Of Operations Wayne Nash have been locked in behind the scenes dialogue to try to resolve the issue.

As a result, we have been told the matter has been amicably settled internally, with the items being removed from auction.

It remains unclear at this stage what will happen with the collection, or whether it will be rehoused within Cardiff City Stadium.

However, the news will delight Cardiff City Supporters Trust. Tim Hartley, one of their Board members had said: "It would be disastrous if this unique memorabilia, such as the board minutes and contract documents, were lost not just to the football club, but the capital city and Wales as well."

He had called for the club, or the authorities, to step in "as a matter of urgency to ensure the preservation of these items for future generations."

The behind the scenes negotiations have led to the Bluebirds getting their way and ensuring the collection is withdrawn from sale

Great to see this has been resolved, It looks as if the club were considering legal action !

But there has been a behind the scenes dispute about legal ownership and the Bluebirds hierarchy were understood to be ready to embark down that route, if necessary, rather than let the items be sold.

Cardiff director Steve Borley and the club's Head Of Operations Wayne Nash have been locked in behind the scenes dialogue to try to resolve the issue.

As a result, we have been told the matter has been amicably settled internally, with the items being removed from auction.

[alan_corneli]

Sounds like the right outcome has been reached.

Everton have all their Minute Books from the 20's and 30's online and make fascinating reading, including try to get payment from Cardiff City when we'd bought one of their players and we were reluctant to part with any money.

Nothing changes, we still don't like parting with money.

[blue matt]

Wales Online have picked it up. Power to CCMB !

We are still the best