Are any of them even remotely ready to play Championship football?Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
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Are any of them even remotely ready to play Championship football?
Looking at our midfield at times this season, I've thought they were crying out for someone who could do the same sort of job that Bowen did for the under 18s, Patten and Pinchard are good all rounders who can play in a variety of positions and when I saw Bolger (who seems to have been injured for much of this season) playing back in August and September I thought he was someone who could play for the first team by the end of the season.
My point is more that at other clubs facing the likelihood of a few weeks at the end of the season with nothing to play for, I feel the conversation about who could replace a player about to be sold would include the question "do we have any youngsters coming through who could come in?" - the likelihood is that we could find out without important league points being lost come April and May and I'm sure there would be some blooding of youngsters at most other clubs under the same circumstances.
Unless you're talking about a Ramsey, there has to be a gamble involved when giving a youngster a debut, but we often did it two or three times a season until the thinking that our young player of the year has to about twenty five took a hold - it doesn't help either to have fans writing Cameron Coxe off completely after two appearances.
There isn't any point 'blooding youngsters' if they're not ready to make the step up. We're not going to help their development by asking them to play at a level way beyond their current ability. If any of them were out on loan in League One or League Two, then I could see the argument for recalling them and giving them a go in the first team, but none of them have progressed beyond playing for the Under 23s.
Coxe is 21, Brown is 22. It's beginning to get to now or never for them both. It's perhaps too early for a 16 year old like Mayembe but we either play some of these young players or cut them loose.
I agree. The harsh reality is that if these young players aren't getting a sniff around the first team and lower league clubs aren't wanting them on loan then they're probably not good enough. In the majority of cases football clubs get it right, there's obviously the odd exception but generally they can see enough in training and development games in respect to making a decision on their future. Sometimes some of these young players aren't even near being good enough, if they are and they have the right attitude then they'll make a living out of the game somewhere.
It's a bit to simple to say that because we're not going down or looking at promotion we should be sticking these players in so that we can take a look at them, they have to be close enough to being at the level where they can contribute at a first team level, playing first team football is a serious business, the club can't just throw players in on the hope that they develop into something that they probably haven't shown up to now.
A young prospect has to be pretty special in order to play pro football consistently. Believe it or not, the majority of our current squad were ahead of their peers in terms of ability and character when they were younger and that's why they've got to where they are.
sounds good to me
Anyone with a passing interest in Championship football could have done a better job than the last 18 months
Probably not if Coxe is the most promising.
The problem is some already have it in for Harris. **** has a lot of posters against him. Would he survive a run of defeats giving youth a go and trying to play a more passing game. Hes in a difficult position.
Talking of Ramsey even he was underused by Dave Jones. Should have been a regular but was comfined to bit part player.
I watched the U23’s at Coventry today. They actually try and play some football with far less hoofing it aimlessly. Sam Bowen hit the post in the first half and scored a well taken goal just after half time. It was a decent performance from a young side but I didn’t see anything that made me think any of them will be in the 1st team anytime soon.
To be fair, that's the feeling I usually have after watching the Under 23s.
I've only watched highlights so probably not best qualified to have an opinion, but i'm going to have one anyway. From what i've seen these U23 games look like an exhibition, slow and not very competitive. Some of the players look technically sound, although it seems that they allow eachover the time and space to look good , which doesn't happen at first team level. They need to bring back real competitive reserve team football where if you did well you had a real chance of stepping up into the first team, An environment that pitted 17 year olds against 30 year olds, trialists, has beens and never beens and established good players coming back from injury as well as the odd player who was demanding a transfer. There would be scouts at these games and a real prospect of a move or loan, and it was very competitive.
I'm still not entirely sure why the authorities persist with the U23 or who it benefits and agree the old reserve fixtures should return, although with 18 man squads going to first team games and the amount of fixtures at that level we'd probably see a U23esque team turn out for the 2nds anyway. The old format was occasionally something of a shambles with teams not being able to fulfil fixtures and some clubs foregoing a reserve team in some years. (I think I'm remembering that right).
For all that, I don't think the system is an excuse for our lack of 1st team local talent in the last ten years. Bellamy reckoned there were capable players so why the consistent failure?
When a young footballer gets to 17 or 18 and they're showing promise then they need competitive football against players that know all of the tricks, the stuff that can't be taught. They may not even be very good, although they'll be wise if they've carved out a pro career on not much ability. That's where people learn in every aspect of the workplace, it's not exclusive to footballers. These U23 games are against lads who are give or take at the same level developmentally, how can that be good for them? I don't know what the answer is and i don't know if established footballers would fancy a reserve game against Bristol City on a wednesday evening anymore, although the players who aren't getting a look in don't play competitive football anymore. If reserve team football was a real pathway to the first team (which it used to be)then surely that would benefit everyone? The u23 set up is a joke, they're glorified youth team matches.
I can understand why some would be surprised by my comment, but yOu and Tuerto get the point .Under 23 football is something that I feel Neil Warnock is right about - it's a waste of time. The authorities have cocked things up by, first, introducing under 21 football, realising it wasn't working, but, instead of going the whole hog and reintroducing something like the old Football Combination, came up with the dog's breakfast that is under 23 football.
I can't talk about other sides, but I've seen players who looked more ready for the first team in our youth side than they did in the Under 23 team (Tommy O'Sullivan, Josh Yorwerth, Cameron Coxe and Sion Spence all being examples that I can come up with without thinking too long about it).
Neil Warnock used the Under 23 side to introduce players too old for youth team football (the McKays being a notorious example), but, in my opinion, Ciaron Brown is the only one who may make a first team player and he is not showing any signs of improvement when restricted to a diet of Under 23 football.
Brentford and Huddersfield took the step of closing their Academies and stop "competing" at under 23 level. Although, its woeful recent record when it comes to producing first team players makes dumping the Academy a tempting idea, I would keep it, but would have no problem with us abandoning our Under 23 team.
What? That none of them are good enough to make the step up?... I’m surprised to see you writing that
I watch a lot of Non-league football and the Southern League & Welsh PL in particular are littered with ex-City academy players and many are disappearing without trace, as they're not good enough for that level. It's a great shame but the vast majority simply go into free fall and tumble through the leagues until they find their (low) level.
I am surprised to read that too, although I'm not surprised that not many have made it through the ranks.
From what I have heard and read, there isn't much to get excited about from our youngsters and the ones that possibly could make the step up we loan out.
If you (TOBW) do not think that the youngsters could make the step up then I'm a bit confused as to why you are banging the drum for them in this and other threads
Must be difficult to be in and out of the team. I bet if he got a run of 10 games and a bit of confidence and stability he'd be a good player. Very quick to judge you lot are
He can't be rewarded with a run of games when he plays like an arsehole. Like Coxe in the two cup games, he has to take his chance when it comes up, neither of them have.
Your point is fair but it's a vicious circle isn't it? He's barely played, Warnock cast him out after one mistake against Reading and now he's been in and out of the team, never had a run. I just don't think we're the type of club who can afford to be all "he's shit get rid of him" with this amount of evidence.
Great post
Maybe you're right, although there can be other factors as to why players don't seem to get an opportunity or a fair crack, sometimes the manager doesn't trust their character or might think that they go missing when things get tough, simply put, they just don't like the player and they'll put someone else in who wont go missing or hide even when they have less ability. Who knows?
I don't know the guy personally but from what I've read about him it doesn't seem his character is something that we should worry about
Classic Warnock, but it's ok he got us promoted so we have to forgive him for everything
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