Reply With QuoteNothing new here, is my contribution.
I'd only make a very general point: why has it taken so long to get where we are - ie many questions still to be answered and a long way from the truth.
It's Jandyce vs Jandyce all over again
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https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/...fence-17671873
Cardiff City have launched a robust defence of their handling of the Emiliano Sala transfer fee issue and outlined why they are not paying the £15million sum to Nantes.
Bluebirds chairman Mehmet Dalman candidly explained the situation to a group of supporters at a Q&A session held ahead of Friday night's 1-1 Championship draw with Reading.
Spelling out in detail why the club hierarchy are adopting their stance, Dalman asked the selected supporters' representatives to help pass on the message to the Bluebirds fan base at large.
Cardiff accept they might not have outlined their reasons well enough in public since the row over the fee unfolded, mainly because of the need to keep their counsel on matters that are at the centre of litigation.
But they put their case to the fans while launching the Emiliano Sala memorial fund following the one-year anniversary of the tragic flight.
Cardiff have taken something of a kicking from the London media and football supporters in general for their stance on the Sala fee, with some Bluebirds fans also weighing in to say the club should pay the money and get it over and done with.
Dalman says that attitude irritates him, given the complexities of the matter and the possibility, according to Cardiff, of French prosecutors becoming involved.
"It is really complicated and I feel very strongly about it," said Dalman.
"I read the forums, and hear what fans are saying, and it throws me a little: 'Why don't we just pay the money?'
"The answer to that is it's £15m. Firstly we don't have the money. And secondly, if we don't have to pay, why should we? There is a lot more to this than perhaps people sometimes realise, things that still need to come out.
"As chairman, I'm the guardian of this football club and I have to do what's right for us.
"Do you know, even if we had £15m to spare, were willing to throw money away, my decision would not be any different. There are certain principles we have to act upon.
"I saw one article in one of the papers saying Cardiff City don't want to pay Nantes anything. Rubbish. I flew to Nantes, told them 'let's split this down the middle, each give an amount to a Sala trust fund.' They basically told me to get on my bike and go back to London."
FIFA have ordered the Bluebirds to pay Nantes the first instalment of the Sala fee - which equates to £5.3m - but Cardiff are disputing the judgement and are taking the matter to the Court of Arbitration for Sport.
They were submitting documents for their case this weekend and expect a summer hearing, although that could get delayed further if French prosecutors get involved.
There are four issues that are likely to prove key as far as Cardiff are concerned.
An interim report from the Air Accidents Investigation Branch has already determined that neither the aircraft or the pilot, David Ibbotson, were licensed to operate commercial journeys.
Football agent Willie McKay has publicly stated he arranged the flight through an experienced pilot and "aviation facilitator" called David Henderson, who he intended to pay, and Cardiff want to know more about this and the legality of the flight.
The third element are reports Mr Ibbotson was not allowed to fly at night in any capacity because he was colour blind. The AAIB's final report is due to be published by the end of March.
And fourthly , football-wise, Cardiff argue Sala had not signed the correct registration documents that would have officially secured him as a Bluebirds player able to play in the Premier League.
Dalman said at the Q&A: "I think we have a very strong legal case. What's best for the club is to fight for our rights.
"Firstly, don't just look at this through the findings of FIFA, which are a very narrow interpretation of football law. There is a much bigger picture to it than that.
"Secondly, there are so many things that we're not happy about and these are still under investigation. Look at the circumstances of the accident, what happened. We did not put Emiliano on the plane. We did not choose a pilot who was colour blind and not fit to fly at night.
"I'm not paying the £15m in those circumstances. There are so many things that still need to be explored, so many answers we need.
"FIFA have missed a trick here. What they should have done was got Cardiff City and Nantes into a room, locked the doors and told us we weren't leaving until we had worked it out between ourselves.
"Instead, they treated it like a hot potato. They don't want to know.
"That is why we are putting our case to the Court of Arbitration of Sport. We can't and won't just accept FIFA's decision.
"We are submitting our documents this weekend, then CAS will give us a date for the hearing, probably in the summer. But if the French authorities decide upon charges, that will obviously get suspended.
"We've informed the prosecuting office in France that there are a number of investigative issues they need to look at. It's up to the French prosecutor to decide whether to prosecute or not. It's not Cardiff City's decision, we've simply made them aware of certain things."
Cardiff also remain unhappy with the role of agent McKay in the whole affair, with Dalman claiming at the fans' Q&A forum any tie-up with Nantes needs to be investigated further.
"It's not just Nantes, there are other factors at play here. He arranged the plane," claimed Dalman at the meeting.
"They could have asked us about travel. We offered Emiliano a normal British Airways Club Class flight to the UK, as we do with every one of our players.
"They declined that and did what they did. Cardiff City did not organise the flight."
Explaining why he was speaking out at this stage, Dalman said: "We need to get our message across.
"We have not previously come out and said what we really think. I want to tell our story more openly than we have done in the past.
"There are lots of negative things people are saying about Cardiff City that we need to address. We've kept our counsel up to this point, but I just feel this is the time for us to explain our stance."
He told the gathered supporters: "I'd ask you to get this message out to your fellow fans."
Cardiff have set up the Sala trust fund and invested a "substantial" amount, although Dalman wouldn't disclose the exact figure.
But he said: "I'd like to see Nantes match what we put in, or any agent. Put your money where you mouth is.
“This is a joint venture by Cardiff City and the Sala family. We have been working on it for over a year.
“We have always wanted to do something for him and we had to get them fully onside. You can't do it without them.
“We worked tirelessly to make sure they were happy with every single thing. That was important and took time - cross-border issues, language issues, legal issues. We had to overcome those to get where we wanted to be."
Dalman said he has been working on the trust fund behind the scenes with Bluebirds owner Vincent Tan and chief executive Ken Choo for some time.
“I've been championing for this - as have Vincent and Ken - for a year and we've got something that makes sense," he continued.
“We would invite the football world, even the whole world, to make a contribution to this.
"We feel the timing of this announcement is just right after the anniversary. We didn't want to announce it before the anniversary."
Nothing new here, is my contribution.
I'd only make a very general point: why has it taken so long to get where we are - ie many questions still to be answered and a long way from the truth.
It's Jandyce vs Jandyce all over again
The whole situation just reveals how much of football is done in bad taste:
i) It still feels as if Sala didn't really want to leave Nantes and it was an agent plus the two clubs who were pushing for the transfer.
ii) It highlights how much of a signing is a PR exercise as he was definitely announced as a signing before signing the correct registration documents that would have officially secured him.
iii) "The answer to that is it's £15m. Firstly we don't have the money."
iv) Willie McKay still being involved in French football
v) Fifa "treated it like a hot potato. They don't want to know."
vi) Publicly challenging Nantes to match donations to the trust und like it's a competition. Again, so much of football is a PR exercise.
I'm sure Dalman would have made sure CCFC have acted properly before this kind of statement but so much bad taste in the whole affair.
I’m not sure an argument of “We ain’t got any money” is going to work.Originally Posted by Michael Morris
^^ This.
If we don't have £15m, then why are we paying £15m for a player?
I agree with everything Dalman said.
Yes the fanfare surrounding 'signing' IS a PR exercise - all clubs do it...always usually subject to signing personal terms and medical. Only afer that isthe payer actually registered.
As for the money - no deals are ever completed at the give price upfront. They are usually xx now....xxx over the next x years....and xx if certain criteria are met.
Because, apart from all the legal and ethical complications, as with most transfers it is payable in instalments, probably over a number of years. In this case the first instalment was £5.3m and that is all we would have paid to date.
Because it’s an asset I suppose?
No one is asking us to pay £15m now, it’ll be £5.3m from last Jan and £5.3 for this Jan. f you haven’t paid for it yet but you know it could be due, you accrue for it until you do actually pay for it. If they haven’t, then there has been some fundamental financial mismanagement.
...and that's all that's expected of the club. Pay what's owed, in installments. Hence why FIFA ruled that we pay the first installment after their "investigation".
If we don't have the money, how the f**k were we supposed to afford the other costs that will incur when signing a £15m striker? Agent's fees, signing on fees, wages on a 3.5 year deal, appearance and goal scoring bonuses... Sounds dodgy to me.
Exactly, I’d like to think it just some hot air from Dalman but if it’s not, and we haven’t accrued for it, then something dodgy has gone on!
Nothing new there. With a headline about Mehmet Dalman 'opening up' I was hoping for a very strong statement about Nantes/Makay being responsible and liable for the fatal flight and something much clearer than has previously been said about the transfer being incomplete. By that I mean the transfer from Nantes to Cardiff being incomplete (and why) not some vague stuff about Emiliano Sala not being properly registered to play in the Premier League - which is a different issue. Also the pitch about Nantes and Cardiff splitting costs, either at Cardiff or FIFA's suggestion makes no sense. It might have reduced the stress for the family at an earlier stage, but the £15m fee is either owed by Cardiff or it isn't. It isn't owed a bit.
Instead it is rehashed waffle from either Dalman or from Paul Abandonato translating what he said. Disappointing.
Its not a guaranteed asset though. IE Gary Madine.
We dont have 15 million
But we let a manager blow money in the summer, but we don't have the 15 million, but we let a manager have a last hurrah by blowing money in the summer (that we didn't have)
Ok Mehmet.
The club either signed a legally binding agreement with Nantes to clinch Sala's signature or it didn't. If the club did then he should have been insured and the insurer would be dealing with this issue as it would be liable for payments. FIFA's 'very narrow interpretation of football law' equals just that.
It appears CCFC is behaving like a squirming shyster purely to reduce its liability by half to £7.5m via its creation of a memorial fund. Little wonder Nantes told Dalman to get stuffed.
I have a problem with the we don't have £15 million argument for a few reasons. For a start, the question why did we sign Emiliano Sala in the first place arises. To be fair, when we have a season of Premier League television rights with, at worst, two years of parachute payments to follow, that line is a hard one to justify, but then you come to last summer and wonder why we spent something like £8 million net in transfer fees while knowing we were faced with a potential bill for almost double that?
On a side note anybody else wondering how much this is affecting the running of our club as Dalman says they have been working on this for the past year.
I was at the meeting and Mehmet Dahlman clearly stated that the full transfer fee had been provided for in the accounts. The press got to ask questions in open forum with the fans but also surrounded him after the event so what was said then I don't know. In the past the club have always said that they will pay the transfer fee if they have to so it would be imprudent not to make such a provision.
Providing for the full transfer value means putting the cost through the profit and loss account. It’s not setting the cash aside, which it looks like the club has not done, otherwise Dalman wouldn’t be saying that they can’t afford the money.
Either way it’s baffling, as either they should have set aside he money or have been insured, thus protecting the club. Yet they let Warnock spaff a load of money in the summer on a host of largely mediocre players.
So yet again, Cardiff City looks amateurish.
When will they learn?
Was there any mention of insurance or insurance companies involvement as I would expect that the insurance companies would be the main drivers behind any payment discussions
No questions about insurance at all. MD seemed supremely confident about the strength of his case with CAS. He talked a great deal about Mackay and how unpleasant he is and how he and Nantes were responsible for putting him on an inappropriate plane flown by a pilot unfit to do so. he was asked about PR management during the whole Sala legal process, he spoke at length about the Sala Trust and let his legal advisor do quite a bit of talking although not going into detail.
Boom.
Surely the clubs had the guy insured?
That is the only point of discussion really.
Pity as it’s a key factor in this.
Also, very concerning what I’m hearing about Sam Hammam from that meeting.
Any idea what’s going on there ?
Apparently suing the club ‘again’ for a huge amount of money.
Thought we’d heard the last of that bastard
I was surprised the Press didn’t pick up on that. MD announced that Sam Hammam is suing the club for £15m over the fact that he did not get the Life Presidency he thought he was promised. How the hell he can think such a meaningless position is worth £15m I don’t know. Also former Director Michael Isaac is suing the club over the fact that his previously significant shareholding in CCFC worth a 7 figure sum is now comparatively worthless due the creation of millions more shares to allow VT to convert debt to equity
This for me was the bigger news and it's disappointing that the media have made no mention of this
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