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In the interests of balance I would like to point out that Brexit is not the biggest mistake the UK has ever made, I did vote for it, as did 52% of us. If only the other 48% would accept the result of a democratic vote, stop moaning and get on with it, the country would be a much happier place.Originally Posted by jeremy corbyn
Lucky you don't have a history of sticking to your guns arguing about something unpopular despite being presented with evidence to the contrary 100s of times.
You're right there dml. Brexit is definitely not the biggest mistake the UK has ever made.
It will be the biggest mistake the UK has ever made.
Should the people of Scotland blindly accept the will of a bunch of ****ing idiots in England and Wales who were too stupid to see they were being lied to? Wales receives almost £700M a year from the EU. Do you think Boris and his chums are going to be as generous?
Calling people thick, remember Hillary’s deplorables ?, isn’t the way to engage voters, I would suggest it has the opposite effect and just like in Merica produced a kick back from a big sector of the electorate . You have made the valid point of the level of subsidy from the EU to Wales, but, and importantly IMO, many people in Wales never saw the benefits of this EU subsidy, we have generations of youngsters in areas of Wales not used to the concept of work because there wasn’t anything suitable to replace the traditional industries when they were removed (and all whilst the UK was in the EU), instead of competing with the leave fairy tale stories on the side of busses etc. the remain camp should have went on the offensive with the positives, ramming home achievements, this should have been the easiest vote ever for the remain side to have won but they allowed themselves to get sucked into a dirty campaign and basically ended up just calling people thick and racist and never once considering why people felt left out during the prosperity of the EU, just perhaps it was the only way the left out of Wales and areas of the North could have any effect on changing destiny even if it wasn’t going to be for the better, they made the country hear them. And did they just!!!!. It was the people of Wales who decided, the people didn’t not want to be in the club %age, but the Welsh government’s during the period of EU legislation/rule etc. should be taking a long hard look at itself at how they managed to let the people of Wales to think that they would be better off outside, they made the decisions and allocated the money.
Anyone (especially someone living in Wales) that believed Boris and Farage and allowed themselves to get riled up into a 19th century worldview is stupid. That's not my fault.
Give someone a long enough piece of rope and they will eventually hang themselves. Thanks.
Says the person living in Wales that voted for Brexit. WOOOOSH!
What about the people already here?
The last government figures showed that 2.7m out of the 3.6m EU nationals have applied for settled status, of which 2.5m applications have been concluded.
That still leaves another 900k people who have not yet applied (deadline is June'21), it will be interesting so see what happens, as the deadline is 6 months after the negotiation period ends.
Personally I may have the opposite problem. I'm moving to Poland from August, until 2022 or 2023, I guess I might need to qualify to work in Europe! Sadly moving those 750 jobs from UK to our new "in EU" facility.
Do you really think the EU has a bigger say in how we replace traditional industry than Westminster?
No I do not. I was thinking more on the lines of Cardiff and the people of Cardiff did O.K. remember we get everything!!, has the other areas of Wales done as well? and if not why not?, imagine growing up in a disadvantaged area, seeing the wonderful lives of everyone else but having jack shit yourself, after 20/30 years of being left behind what better way of putting your two fingers up to those with the posh house, a spare house to rent, and 3 foreign holidays a year, it was correctly stated by New York that Wales did very well from the EU dough, but I'm suggesting that not all of Wales benefitted from the dough and this could be an explanation as to why Wales voted to leave, it's just my alternative than calling people thick and racist. I really don't think that the majority are thick and racist but are generally totally fcked off with being left behind and watching the good life from the outside looking in, just look at all these celebrity programmes on TV with the glamour and good life, it's bound to have an affect on those who only have a pipe dream of this, resentment is a powerful tool and it's being given an opportunity to be used, Remain should have prevailed easily, as should have a Labour win at the previous election, poorer areas voted to leave and traditional Red areas voted Blue, there has been quite a shift over the world not just in the UK (like climate, things come and go in cycles) but labelling and name calling will only drive home the divide.
Why did the Welsh government think it a good idea to leave Llanishen and not move outwards rather than inwards ?, would this have put more prosperity out of Cardiff and reduced central emissions as a Brucie bonus? I'm just a thick welder and don't understand these complicated business decisions.
Stand off Over
Interesting quotes:
Yuval Noah Harari (author of Sapiens and other tomes):
You might object that people were asked ‘What do you think?’ rather than ‘What do you feel?’, but this is a common misperception. Referendums and elections are always about human feelings, not about human rationality. If democracy were a matter of rational decision-making, there would be absolutely no reason to give all people equal voting rights – or perhaps any voting rights. There is ample evidence that some people are far more knowledgeable and rational than others, certainly when it comes to specific economic and political questions.”
Richard Dawklins:
I, and most other people, don’t have the time or the experience to do our due diligence on the highly complex economic and social issues facing our country in, or out of, Europe. That’s why we vote for our Member of Parliament, who is paid a good salary to debate such matters on our behalf, and vote on them. The European Union referendum, like the one on Scottish independence, should never have been called.
My personal opinion was always that I didn't know enough about the complexity and consequences of the vote either way. However, the streets, pubs and social media were full of people expounding on the matter but with nothing other than vacuous slogans support in their vocabulary.
There are great minds out there with opinions that fell on either side of the argument but most of us were, sadly, clueless.
The West Lothian question has been the subject of ongoing debate ever since it was first raised in 1977
Scotland is part of the UK, so yes they should accept it. Also you are accusing 17.4 million people (including those who voted for it in Scotland) of being stupid which is a typical attitude of remainers in general, who will not accept the result of a binding democratic vote and it also says a lot about your general attitude to life. Wales was receiving money from the EU but the UK as a whole paid over £20 billion a year into EU coffers - there is nothing like giving you your own money back is there and then bragging about it.
I don't usually get involved in this type of debate but cannot let you get away with such a misleading post.
The amount the UK paid to the EU varied from year to year but was mostly less than £20bn. In 2018 we were due to pay £17.4bn but with our discount or rebate, which was negotiated by Thatcher, this reduced to £13.2bn.This rebate applies every year. The EU paid £4bn back to the UK in various sponsored projects reducing it further to just over £9bn. There were also various research grants paid to UK universities and other organisations which further reduces the net amount to just over £7bn which I believe amounts to just over 1% of our GDP.
These figures are readily available from the UK Office of National Statistics whose head once stated that Boris Johnson's continual statement of £350m per week was 'a clear misuse of National Statistics'. I suggest that your post is that also.
dml just got game, set & matched, absolutely brutal
While there may be further clarification in wider text, doesn't it seem strange that government would say that those who cannot speak due to a disability or health condition are more likely to be lower skilled workers? Isn't that discrimination? Doesn't it seem strange that you can become a UK ciitzen by proving you can speak Welsh or Scottish Gaelic but are less likely to be let into the country if you can speak these languages fluently?
Scottish government calling for Scottish visa system and I think we need to do the same in Wales.
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