Who should I vote for?

[Eric the Half a Bee]

In 2017 Corbyn managed a hung parliament against all odds against a party that wanted a mandate to deliver Brexit. If the country rejects left wing policies, then this wouldn't have happened. In fact, in policy only surveys, where people are surveyed solely on policies, Labour's more left wing proposals are generally more popular.

Brexit became the overwhelming issue of the 2019 election. Johnson, for some unfathomable reason, seems to be popular. With which demographic? I'm not sure. Those without IQs.

Let's not believe the country has lurched rapidly to the right, which caused the general election result. A lot of voters have unwittingly elected a rather far right party and will soon realise the mistakes they've made. The whole issue of left/right has been magnified by the media to the point where anything left of centre is portrayed as derogatory. Enough people lap that up. The left need to do more to challenge that, not meekly surrender and become more right.

[Pearcey3]

In 2017 Corbyn managed a hung parliament against all odds against a party that wanted a mandate to deliver Brexit. If the country rejects left wing policies, then this wouldn't have happened. In fact, in policy only surveys, where people are surveyed solely on policies, Labour's more left wing proposals are generally more popular.

Brexit became the overwhelming issue of the 2019 election. Johnson, for some unfathomable reason, seems to be popular. With which demographic? I'm not sure. Those without IQs.

Let's not believe the country has lurched rapidly to the right, which caused the general election result. A lot of voters have unwittingly elected a rather far right party and will soon realise the mistakes they've made. The whole issue of left/right has been magnified by the media to the point where anything left of centre is portrayed as derogatory. Enough people lap that up. The left need to do more to challenge that, not meekly surrender and become more right.

I dunno Eric. The manifesto wasn’t popular this time around. It was seen as highly unaffordable. Labour need to be much more aggressive. They need a much more streetwise shadow cabinet. They also need to make sure they have a better chance of winning in the future. When they were last in power they should have reduced the voting age to 16. It needs to be a manifesto pledge next time around.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

I dunno Eric. The manifesto wasn’t popular this time around. It was seen as highly unaffordable. Labour need to be much more aggressive. They need a much more streetwise shadow cabinet. They also need to make sure they have a better chance of winning in the future. When they were last in power they should have reduced the voting age to 16. It needs to be a manifesto pledge next time around.

The manifesto never became an issue this time around. Issues other than Brexit were given little media attention for starters and virtually all talk I saw in the run up was about Brexit. Left leaning Labour supporters talked about policies but this seemed not to matter. I occasionally saw posts showing Tory promises to lift austerity and that they were going to spend this and that, all unaccounted for, but people didn't seem to care. The psyche with a lot of the people is that Labour overspend and the Tories don't. That's bullshit and needs challenging, but Labour will receive little help with this.

In 2017, it was Labour's manifesto that did a lot to claw back a massive deficit in the polls.

When Labour lost in 2010, Harriet Harman took it that Britain wanted to move towards the right and that Labour should be slightly more conservative. It lost votes in 5 years.

Labour need to be a broadly centre left party that challenges the Tories. It needs to challenge the establishment, not try and be a part of it just to have power.

[jon1959]

The manifesto never became an issue this time around. Issues other than Brexit were given little media attention for starters and virtually all talk I saw in the run up was about Brexit. Left leaning Labour supporters talked about policies but this seemed not to matter. I occasionally saw posts showing Tory promises to lift austerity and that they were going to spend this and that, all unaccounted for, but people didn't seem to care. The psyche with a lot of the people is that Labour overspend and the Tories don't. That's bullshit and needs challenging, but Labour will receive little help with this.

In 2017, it was Labour's manifesto that did a lot to claw back a massive deficit in the polls.

When Labour lost in 2010, Harriet Harman took it that Britain wanted to move towards the right and that Labour should be slightly more conservative. It lost votes in 5 years.

Labour need to be a broadly centre left party that challenges the Tories. It needs to challenge the establishment, not try and be a part of it just to have power.

The main criticism of the 2019 Labour Manifesto that I have seen through polls is that it was overloaded. Individual policies were mainly popular. That was even more true in 2017. In fact the Tory Manifesto (although very light on detail) adopted a lot of 2010 and 2015 Labour pledges - along with the general move away from the cult of austerity. The 3 main problems with the 2019 Labour campaign were too many pledges (in part made possible because the Tories were making their own un-costed promises up on the hoof), Corbyn himself (an older, less energetic and much more slandered figure than in 2017) and a garbled Brexit position. On top of that the Tories caught up in the social media war and they had a leader that is somehow teflon where May was toxic.

Brexit was the main problem!

However, the political debate has moved a long way from the end of Brown/Blair or even Milliband. Corbyn and those around him have blown up the centre-right consensus and made possible what was impossible only 10 years ago. They failed - and that must not be downplayed - but they did a lot of things I want the new Labour leader to build on. Long-Bailey will probably do that. Starmer claims he will (and has doubled down on that with his 10 pledges), Nandy seems to be enjoying trashing the last 5 years and shows no interest in preserving the good stuff. She is a mixture of Blairite Labour and post Brexit populism - the freshness is attractive but the contents of the package less so.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

The main criticism of the 2019 Labour Manifesto that I have seen through polls is that it was overloaded. Individual policies were mainly popular. That was even more true in 2017. In fact the Tory Manifesto (although very light on detail) adopted a lot of 2010 and 2015 Labour pledges - along with the general move away from the cult of austerity. The 3 main problems with the 2019 Labour campaign were too many pledges (in part made possible because the Tories were making their own un-costed promises up on the hoof), Corbyn himself (an older, less energetic and much more slandered figure than in 2017) and a garbled Brexit position. On top of that the Tories caught up in the social media war and they had a leader that is somehow teflon where May was toxic.

Brexit was the main problem!

However, the political debate has moved a long way from the end of Brown/Blair or even Milliband. Corbyn and those around him have blown up the centre-right consensus and made possible what was impossible only 10 years ago. They failed - and that must not be downplayed - but they did a lot of things I want the new Labour leader to build on. Long-Bailey will probably do that. Starmer claims he will (and has doubled down on that with his 10 pledges), Nandy seems to be enjoying trashing the last 5 years and shows no interest in preserving the good stuff. She is a mixture of Blairite Labour and post Brexit populism - the freshness is attractive but the contents of the package less so.

Good read.

There is a lot to build on. I accept that Corbyn wasn't that popular in the end, a man destroyed by his own dithering as well as by the media. That doesn't mean his policies weren't popular.

There's one thing I like about RLB - she has an ability to show how her politics is a positive thing. I think that's huge. All too often people are swayed by simplicities, not manifestos or policies. "Get Brexit Done" won the Tories the election. Labour should have gone with "Boris - have you thought about this?". Trump had Make America Great. Perhaps that was the 3-word location code when he stood in his bathroom with morning glory.

[surge]

In 2017 Corbyn managed a hung parliament against all odds against a party that wanted a mandate to deliver Brexit. If the country rejects left wing policies, then this wouldn't have happened. In fact, in policy only surveys, where people are surveyed solely on policies, Labour's more left wing proposals are generally more popular.

Brexit became the overwhelming issue of the 2019 election. Johnson, for some unfathomable reason, seems to be popular. With which demographic? I'm not sure. Those without IQs.

Let's not believe the country has lurched rapidly to the right, which caused the general election result. A lot of voters have unwittingly elected a rather far right party and will soon realise the mistakes they've made. The whole issue of left/right has been magnified by the media to the point where anything left of centre is portrayed as derogatory. Enough people lap that up. The left need to do more to challenge that, not meekly surrender and become more right.

Although I'm sure there will be conservative voters who will be insulted by your post, I can't think many conservative voters wanted a home secretary who previously lost their government role after colluding with another nation in secret and has previously supported return of the death penalty, or to lose Sajid Javid as Chancellor so quickly due to political in fighting (sparked by an unelected official) or the Prime Minister to be asked whether he agrees that people of colour are less intelligent. Not sure if it's a lurch to rapidly to the right in terms of political ideas but definitely in terms of being more authoritarian and less liberal - which is not the mindset of majority of the UK.

Corbyn spoke from a position which is seen as completely normal in Europe as if it could be/should be completely normal in the UK. It should be possible to keep that while also recognising majority are, weirdly, more comfortable with wasting billions on trident than Corbyn/those on the left are. Can Nandy do that? Can RBL do that?