Football - is the bubble about to burst ?

[A Quiet Monkfish]

You highlighted Fulham's attendance in midweek (it was actually 1,500 Jacks, not 2,500).

Twenty years ago, in 2000/01, Fulham were promoted to the Premier League after finishing top of the Championship with 101 points.

Their average league attendance in 2000/01 was 14,803.

Their average league attendance this season is 18,181.

The highest average attendance in the Championship in 2000/01 was 21,283 (Birmingham City). This season, nine Championship clubs have a higher average than that.

What part of " I think it will be the start of the decline in attendances for the 1st time in 20 yrs." Didn't you understand ? Secondly the point I made - and did twice - was that people aren't turning up for games more and more, in both the Championship and also now in the PL. When you see large gaps in the stands in the PL games which you haven't seen before, it shows a lot of people are beginning to get 'football fatigue "

[Wales-Bales]

And the same team winning the league for the last 7 seasons.

They've had some of the best coaches who have taken the game forward and raised the standard of those below them, and only 6 points separate the top 5 teams. Bayern and Leipzig were a different class compared to Chelsea and Spurs in the Champions League, and Klopp & Pep are also students of the high press German game.

[cardiff55]

I was looking at some mid 1980s attendances a few days ago. We were getting 3000-4000 in the second tier, mind you we were rubbish, had no money, and a crap ground. Other 'big' teams like Newcastle were getting sub 10000 crowds too. And that was in the days when there was SKy/BT live games. I think it could be true that the bubble is about to burst. Man City were at home the other day and there were loads of empty seats.

[Monster munch]

As much as I love “the city” the modern day family life and kids activities just make it very difficult at times to attend. Football back in the day was part of the local culture and the only thing on a Saturday the but nowadays it is fading due to everything else that’s out there.
The bubble will burst in the next five years or so and to be honest it should. Mediocre athletes should not be paid the ridiculous wealth that they earn.
More affordable games (certainly premiership wise) might make the game more attractive but we cannot blame people in having other interests.

[insider]

At the top level far from it
With the likes of Amazon throwing billions on the table your armchair fan is here for years to come.
On a personal level I still love going to the pub and the game whatever the level and perversely the shitter we are and the more glory hunters that feck off the better the experience for me.
Up the city.

[Llandaff Blue]

So this "bubble" is going to burst because a few older fans aren't going down to the City anymore, despite attendances across this league have remained similar (for years) and even grown when you compare it to 20 years ago.

You have it spot on fellas, best let Sky, BT and Amazon know they should stop pumping so much money in

[Der Kaiser]

I'm sure people who go on about how good football was 'back in their day' are the exact same people who moan their Dad's didn't like the music they were into. There is no 'bubble'. End of. This boring conversation will continue to raise its head every now and then, but if anything, more clubs are being competitive at the top than at any time in the last 20 years.

[A Quiet Monkfish]

So this "bubble" is going to burst because a few older fans aren't going down to the City anymore, despite attendances across this league have remained similar (for years) and even grown when you compare it to 20 years ago.

You have it spot on fellas, best let Sky, BT and Amazon know they should stop pumping so much money in

Completely mis-read or mis-understood my post. Attendances are recorded by the no. of tickets sold. Based on those figures most of the clubs who were in the Championship this season and last have seen a slight fall. Nothing significant but what is significant is the numbers actually going to games. When the attraction of a ST becomes less, people will cherry pick - def. not on a rainy midweek when they're on the TV, and probably not on many other occasions. Same will happen in PL - you can see the gaps for the 1st time. Sky and the rest earn their income via viewing revenues - they'll get the same whether the ground is full or empty. Next season will be a good indication, both in the PL and the Championship especially..

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Amazon , sky and the other tossers dont care about the fans

The clubs could charge next to nothing in the premier league and still do it


Football has become an americanised bloody product , together with hot dogs and offensive formations etc

Modern football is complete bollocks and in twenty years crowds will be very different

The demographic is rapidly changing , football teams are losing their traditional supporter base and becoming middle class playthings

That's not a problem for liverpool or man united as there are loads of lemmings lining up

But for everyone else outside the top four or five clubs it's very worrying indeed

David Conn wrote the book searching for the soul of football many years and predicted one day it would all come crashing down

In effect it has already , with the internet and sky etc many people now follow their club , whom previously they would home and away , from their armchair

And who can bloody blame them with the cost of modern football being gobbled up in players wages

[light up the darkness]

I note that this week EFL clubs met to discuss a) a salary cap (£24 -£30 million proposed) and b) a reduced first team squad size

It’s all talk at the moment nothing definitive but for me the fact that this was even being discussed its an indication the clubs are getting worried about the cost of chasing the premiership dream

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

I note that this week EFL clubs met to discuss a) a salary cap (£24 -£30 million proposed) and b) a reduced first team squad size

It’s all talk at the moment nothing definitive but for me the fact that this was even being discussed its an indication the clubs are getting worried about the cost of chasing the premiership dream

Look how much debt we got ourselves into trying to get into the premier league under jones

[light up the darkness]

Look how much debt we got ourselves into trying to get into the premier league under jones

I think the bubble won’t burst because there’s too much will for it not to but I definitely think it will change. It has to because the associated costs are unsustainable as things stand

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

I think the bubble won’t burst because there’s too much will for it not to but I definitely think it will change. It has to because the associated costs are unsustainable as things stand

Go down the city now and you just dont see big groups of teenage lads like you used to at ninian park

It was a rites of passage , for me anyway , to go into the family enclosure as a kid , then move onto the bob bank with my mates

Now it's all changed and for the worst

It's expensive for a young lad to decide on match day I fancy a trip down the city

For our fans from the valleys it's even more of a pain in the arse

Go up within the next few years and that will be another generation of kids frozen out

No wonder they watch it on the internet

[A Quiet Monkfish]

Amazon , sky and the other tossers dont care about the fans

The clubs could charge next to nothing in the premier league and still do it


Football has become an americanised bloody product , together with hot dogs and offensive formations etc

Modern football is complete bollocks and in twenty years crowds will be very different

The demographic is rapidly changing , football teams are losing their traditional supporter base and becoming middle class playthings

That's not a problem for liverpool or man united as there are loads of lemmings lining up

But for everyone else outside the top four or five clubs it's very worrying indeed

David Conn wrote the book searching for the soul of football many years and predicted one day it would all come crashing down

In effect it has already , with the internet and sky etc many people now follow their club , whom previously they would home and away , from their armchair

And who can bloody blame them with the cost of modern football being gobbled up in players wages

I'd generally agree with most of that. The other factor to consider is the game itself is becoming sanitized - VAR, little or no body contact, and with players getting fitter, or at least increasing work rate, it's frequently a boring, non-exciting stalemate between attack and defence..

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

I'd generally agree with most of that. The other factor to consider is the game itself is becoming sanitized - VAR, little or no body contact, and with players getting fitter, or at least increasing work rate, it's frequently a boring, non-exciting stalemate between attack and defence..

The diving in the game is worse than ever , VAR wont be doing anything about that

[Hilts]

Go down the city now and you just dont see big groups of teenage lads like you used to at ninian park

It was a rites of passage , for me anyway , to go into the family enclosure as a kid , then move onto the bob bank with my mates

Now it's all changed and for the worst

It's expensive for a young lad to decide on match day I fancy a trip down the city

For our fans from the valleys it's even more of a pain in the arse

Go up within the next few years and that will be another generation of kids frozen out

No wonder they watch it on the internet

You think there are far less teenagers now than say the 80s?? Thats just not correct. Theres far more now. The percentage of teenage groups in the crowd is probably less.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

You think there are far less teenagers now than say the 80s?? Thats just not correct. Theres far more now. The percentage of teenage groups in the crowd is probably less.

That's what I am saying

You dont see groups of youngsters at the ground anymore like we did in the old days

[The Lone Gunman]

Yes you do.

[Der Kaiser]

That's what I am saying

You dont see groups of youngsters at the ground anymore like we did in the old days

I'd disagree. Particularly away from home, the away support is probably 80% yoofs. I'll assume they're also going to the home games.

I guess when we had much smaller crowds it was easier to pick out groups. Not a dig.

[Hilts]

I'd disagree. Particularly away from home, the away support is probably 80% yoofs. I'll assume they're also going to the home games.

I guess when we had much smaller crowds it was easier to pick out groups. Not a dig.

Plus with the terracing the younger element tended to group together.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Yes you do.

No you dont

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Let's get somexstats on the age range of our season ticket holders and match day walk ups then if I am wrong I will hold my hands up

But I dont think I am

[valleys caveman]

That's what I am saying

You dont see groups of youngsters at the ground anymore like we did in the old days

Mavbe that's because of the seating. Perhaps some just go to the 'bigger' games and can't sit by their mates who are season ticket holders because the seats around them are already taken.
I think it would generate more of an atmosphere if season tickets and general sale tickets allowed you to sit anywhere in the stand.

[The Lone Gunman]

What part of " I think it will be the start of the decline in attendances for the 1st time in 20 yrs." Didn't you understand ? Secondly the point I made - and did twice - was that people aren't turning up for games more and more, in both the Championship and also now in the PL. When you see large gaps in the stands in the PL games which you haven't seen before, it shows a lot of people are beginning to get 'football fatigue "

I understood what you were saying. I just don't agree with it and don't believe there is any evidence for it either.

Attendances have been declared based on ticket sales rather than the number of people who actually turn up for many, many years. If there is a difference now, I think it's that season tickets have become more attractively priced at many clubs (including Cardiff City). Therefore, there are more season ticket holders than there used to be and such people won't always turn up for games.

I've noticed that's very much in the case in my local, where there are definitely more season ticket holders than ever before and the declared attendances reflect that. However, as we know, plenty don't turn up for every game.

If you look at City's attendances for equivalent Saturday home games at this time of year during the last five Championship campaigns, the figures are as follows:

2014/15 v Wolves = 21,165
2015/16 v Preston = 15,566
2016/17 v Fulham = 15,656
2017/18 v Middlesbrough = 18,720
2019/20 v Brentford = 22,393

Just like 2014/15, when there was an increased number of season ticket holders following relegation from the Premier League, the figure yesterday was larger than average for this time of year. I don't know what the actual physical attendance was yesterday, but it looked to me to be around the 16,000 to 17,000 mark, which would be bigger than 2015/16 and 2016/17, and slightly down on 2017/18 when the side was challenging for automatic promotion.

From my perspective, those figures all look to be about right and don't indicate that this season is one of a decline in attendances. In the Premier League there were more than 52,000 at Newcastle v Burnley yesterday, while the attendance for West Ham v Southampton was just short of 60,000. That doesn't suggest to me that the 'football bubble' is bursting.

[delmbox]

Mine has!!!, keep thinking I'll do a few games as each season approaches, but with almost every game now available on the fire stick any enthusiasm to venture out into the rain and cold quickly dissipates, as just a TV spectator from the armchair, the football on offer is appalling. I was watching some personal videos I took when we were in the Wembley era last night, they did bring back some fabulous memories, I have lots of videos from dungeon grounds around this period and I look back at them very fondly, desperately want the club to do well and especially respect the fans who continue to go up and down the country following the team and whilst I've had a few breaks in actively following the club, I do think it's now over for me.

How?! Did you take a camcorder into the ground with you every week?