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Yes they are, and they probably don'tOriginally Posted by Croesy Blue
I can't believe people are still defending this government's reaction tbh, it was too little and too late and still is.
More excess deaths than anywhere in Europe, you can try and spin the figures however you want but the response has been appalling.
They probably do care, they just don't think that they will have anything to do with causing it.
I doubt any of the people who infected the tens of thousands who have died thought that they'd be a cause either.
So we should just release these selfish morons until anyone who's a bit ill already dies?
Probably closer to what I actually meant. They will assume its everyone else because they don't feel sick.
Surely that means we need these rules more than ever then?
He claimed that it was a massive f**king lie that the Govt. never said that "herd immunity" was the goal. He thought it was Johnson that announced it but it was actually Vallance in his role as Chief Scientific Advisor to the Govt. (who repeated it on TV and Radio several times).
The Govt. are trying to re-write history now and they shouldn't be allowed to - as I'm sure you'll agree.
Not up to me, and not everyone is as clever as you to make sure the decision that suits your thinknig is made. Not my concern at the moment.
But what I said is almost certainly true of a lot of people. And you trying to be so high and mighty will not change one single thing will it? :)
How is saying people should stay home so lots of people don't die being high and mighty?
The rest of your post doesn't even make sense, there need to be clear rules in place or the number of deaths will keep increasing, relaxing them just because people are a bit bored is madness.
It's not a decision that suits my thinking, I want to be out living as normal as much as anyone, but I'm not because I don't want to be responsible for more people dying.
It is another example of you knowing better than everyone else and be selective in your replies. Just to have a dig at me becuase oyu odn't like the things I say because they disagree with you higher intelectual reasoning, (That no one gives a shit about by the way)
I never said it was a good thing and never have, I said it was the probably feeling of a lot of people.
A lot of locked down people and not just bored they have mental stress and the longer it goes on the more it affects them, the other just want to return to their normal life and as lardy said will think its eveyone else and not them.
Things would be very different if symptoms included a rash or spots or something.
This is what you said. Who cares if it's not too early for people if it's saving lives?
The majority of people can manage the mental stress of staying in their homes if it means 10s of thousands of lives are saved. Only 6 months ago people were saying we won 2 world wars so brexit is easy now those same people are finding it too hard to stay at home and watch tv when it is literally saving lives.
I didn't say that, you have just changed it, as you have changed other peoples posts inthe past, to fit your answer.
Your "interpretation" of what I posted implies I am saying "who Cares" and it is not what I said at all.
Basically lying again.
As I've said before, you're a waste of oxygen
Absolutely, if people could see it then they would believe, a bit like Doubting Thomas.
Your post is on this page I haven't changed anything.
Even then there would be an incubation period where it would be passed on before any symptoms show.
There needed to be clear rules a lot earlier than we got them.
We are ****ing it up again by using our own tracing app too. I wish it was non tory government doing this because then at least they'd be properly held to account by the media.
Are you saying you don't believe herd immunity was ever the government's plan?
I'm saying he made a specific claim...
Was it discussed internally, almost certainly. Plan? Doubt it.
Welsh press release pointing out any lockdown release announcement applies to England only.
That'll be fun and not clear chaos.
From the release...
"Any decisions to ease restrictions in Wales will be announced by the Welsh Fist Minister"
I didn't know Sludge was running Wales?
It was announced as the actual plan early on, there are numerous sources on this too. It was abandoned almost immediately after much criticism.
This what Croesy said I wrote:.......Your post is on this page I haven't changed anything. Where?
This is what you said. Who cares if it's not too early for people if it's saving lives?
this doesn't even make sense, it is not a proper english!
Quote Originally Posted by xsnaggle View Post It won't be "too early" for a lot of folks going stir crazy.
Croesy: This is what you said. Who cares if it's not too early for people if it's saving lives?
croesy lying again. Not only has he changed the meaning of the statement I made but he also, in very bad english, sought to imply that I was saying I don't care.
A liar and attempting to blackne someones character too. Par for the course with croesy.
You're a keyboard warrier and as I said, a waste of oxygen
I found this article a reasoned argument that the government and scientists were more frightened of a 2nd wave than the first and that "herd immunity" was part of the plan but not just the plan to "flatten the curve" of the first wave.
https://www.newstatesman.com/politic...-was-abandoned
However to try and argue that it never was part of any plan is fanciful. It is also true that we were following an almost unique path by abandoning test and trace early and only locking down much later than others because of the original strategy as this article at the time points out.
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...le-coronavirus
This obviously changed after the Imperial College analysis was given of following that path. We have been playing catch up ever since. The Politicians who are responsible for determining this was the right original path should be held to account with suitable transparency around the adequacy of scientific advice and options they received and choices made on the back of them.
Personally I have some sympathy for the decision makers at the time, but less sympathy if their subsequent actions were not to take responsibility for difficult decisions by either rewriting that history, covering up or chucking their scientific advisers under the bus.
Disclaimer: I haven't dived into the links so posted for those with bit more time to have a look at as part of the discussion - there may be more to the story.
Professor Graham Medley, who leads the Government’s disease modelling team, tells BBC Newsnight that “we are going to have to generate what is called herd immunity… and the only way of developing that in the absence of vaccination is for the majority of the population to become infected”
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p086hjgc
Dr David Halpern, the head of the Number 10 ‘nudge unit’, tells the BBC that “there is going to be a point, assuming the epidemic flows and grows as we think it probably will do, where you’ll want to cocoon, you’ll want to protect those at-risk group so that they basically don’t catch the disease and by the time they come out of their cocooning herd immunity has been achieved in the rest of the population”
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...egy-unravelled
Reading back through the thread, this seems to be a case of whether any member of the UK government seriously used term "herd immunity" or whether it was just those advising the government.
One of my frustrations is that we don't know what "the science" is and where "the science" stops and where government decisions begin despite UK government and Senedd ensuring people know they've "followed the science at all times".
If those justifying their actions are saying they're following "the science" at all times and previously the scientists have discussed herd immunity then can we take it that this was once part of the government response? It does feel that the media (currently happening at England level) and scientists (being prepared for future in all nations) are about to be blamed for any negative feeling towards government decisions. Meanwhile, death rates exceed benchmark for success set out by government by 10,000 and growing each day.
Good post. I'm guessing here, but if "the science" were urging that we go for a herd immunity approach and the Government defied them from the start by insisting that was not on, I think we would have heard about it somehow by now. I thought it had been more or less accepted that it was the Jenkinson report saying as many as half a million could die in the U.K. that convinced the Government not to adopt a herd immunity approach?
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