Coronavirus update - NO MORE RESTRICTIONS

[the other bob wilson]

im not very anti-Drakeford, just pointing out that it was not factually accurate. Like you I am 'not died in the wool' attached to any particular party as TOBW is. Last time around I voted Boris in for no other reason than to get Brexit done. If an election was held tomorrow Starmer would probably get my vote.

As for the current situation under Boris, it's shambolic. Everyday we seem to be exposed to another mess and no end in sight. He is a delegator but his team is young and inexperienced and it shows. Sad thing is it doesn't seem to be getting any better

It's true I have voted Labour most of my life, but not entirely so - I'd say I've almost voted as much for other parties as I've voted for Labour in local, general and EU elections in the last twenty years. Also, if you were sad enough to go looking through my posts on here around early March time, you'd see my saying that I didn't want to be political when it came to the virus because the UK Government had been landed with a hell of a task, worse than anything I could remember in my lifetime.

I was also critical of the Welsh Government as well as the UK one in the spring when I had realised that it was impossible for me not to bring politics into what was happening, but, increasingly, it seems to me that Drakeford and Welsh Labour are outperforming Johnson and the Conservatives - although, as Rjk rightly points out, the latter are setting a very, very low bar.

As mentioned earlier, the present UK Government are facing a test that much more able administrations than this one would have struggled with, but has the situation changed much in the last few months when it seems to me that only a Chancellor who has had things relatively easy in so far as he has been, mainly, giving money out up to now has suggested he has the competence to succeed in a Cabinet that seems to have too many in it who have been rewarded for their loyalty to both Brexit and the Prime Minister?

I'm not naive enough to believe that we would not see instances of the sort of cronyism involving Dido Harding, her husband and Alun Cairns if there was another party running the UK, but it just seems more blatant and out in the open under this lot.

I may not have been Labour all of my life, but I have been, and always will be anti the Conservative Party. Johnson and co aren't bothered about someone like me I'm sure, but they should certainly be very concerned about what some of their friends are saying about them. For example, the Daily Mail front page has made for some very interesting reading at times during the past few months - this article, written this month, is also hardly the sort of thing you'd expect to read in that paper;-

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/a...R-trouble.html

[Rjk]

to be fair, drakeford has an easy win as he's ever likely to get at the moment.
all he has to do is be 10% better than those currently running England and he comes out with a lot of credit.

and those running England are making a right mess.of things.

[Gofer Blue]

to be fair, drakeford has an easy win as he's ever likely to get at the moment.
all he has to do is be 10% better than those currently running England and he comes out with a lot of credit.

and those running England are making a right mess.of things.

Agree 100%. Easy to wait to see what others do first, then do the same if it turns out well, and describe it as "taking the cautious approach".

[CCFCC3PO]

Agree 100%. Easy to wait to see what others do first, then do the same if it turns out well, and describe it as "taking the cautious approach".

That's not how he is doing it though.

[blue matt]

Agree 100%. Easy to wait to see what others do first, then do the same if it turns out well, and describe it as "taking the cautious approach".

and if it goes wrong, blame Boris

[xsnaggle]

and if it goes wrong, blame Boris

It is a "save your own skin" strategy, and perfect for political ends, and he has politicised this from day 1.
Never do anything first. Watch what others do and then go along behind them. And if anything goes wrong you can blame central government or the scientific advice or whatever, but never have to take any blame yourself.
It's a kind of pontius Pilate stance, but one thing it certainly isn't, and that is leadership.

[Jordi Culé]

It is a "save your own skin" strategy, and perfect for political ends, and he has politicised this from day 1.
Never do anything first. Watch what others do and then go along behind them. And if anything goes wrong you can blame central government or the scientific advice or whatever, but never have to take any blame yourself.
It's a kind of pontius Pilate stance, but one thing it certainly isn't, and that is leadership.

Serious question, are you referring to Boris or Drakeford, perhaps both?

[CCFCC3PO]

It is a "save your own skin" strategy, and perfect for political ends, and he has politicised this from day 1.
Never do anything first. Watch what others do and then go along behind them. And if anything goes wrong you can blame central government or the scientific advice or whatever, but never have to take any blame yourself.
It's a kind of pontius Pilate stance, but one thing it certainly isn't, and that is leadership.

Scotland 80 cases today
Wales 20
England 900 plus

Johnson does everything first. And it is working. Just ask the people who are unable to socialise at all this weekend in the North West.

[CCFCC3PO]

because Drakeford ( or any other politician ) would love to be in a position that is win - win, if it all goes wrong them blame the person who you were following ( in this case boris ) if it goes right then it'll be " we waited and did it in our own time, we did well " , it truly is a ideal situation to be in for him

as i said, win - win

Drakeford isn't following Johnson. He is following the advice of his scientific advisors, something Johnson gave up on ages ago when all the heat was focused on his master, Dominic Cummings.

[Jordi Culé]

Drakeford isn't following Johnson. He is following the advice of his scientific advisors, something Johnson gave up on ages ago when all the heat was focused on his master, Dominic Cummings.

Did he ever listen to scientific or medical advice?

Anyone who decided to shake hands with Covid19 patients and then funnily enough contracts the disease is let's face it fuucking twp.

Anyone who believes anything the lying cuunt says twper.

[the other bob wilson]

Just like with Labour in 2008, the Conservatives have been the victims of a situation which was out of their hands in so many ways, so it doesn't seem right to be critical about this, but it does show the size of the problem;-

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-53859299

[blue matt]

Just like with Labour in 2008, the Conservatives have been the victims of a situation which was out of their hands in so many ways, so it doesn't seem right to be critical about this, but it does show the size of the problem;-

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-53859299

its just zero's though, we will never pay that amount off, so its just figures

[cyril evans awaydays]

its just zero's though, we will never pay that amount off, so its just figures

The next job you do I suggest you don't bill the client in round numbers

[lisvaneblue]

its just zero's though, we will never pay that amount off, so its just figures

You're right. It'll be left to your children and grandchildren, and maybe great-grandchildren to try to sort it out. At the end of the day there are no free lunches. Someone has to pay.

[blue matt]

You're right. It'll be left to your children and grandchildren, and maybe great-grandchildren to try to sort it out. At the end of the day there are no free lunches. Someone has to pay.

indeed

but they will just rack up debt that future generations to them will have to pay, didnt i hear on the news that we never really paid of the debt from WW2, we reduced it, but never completely paid it off

[A Quiet Monkfish]

indeed

but they will just rack up debt that future generations to them will have to pay, didnt i hear on the news that we never really paid of the debt from WW2, we reduced it, but never completely paid it off

Not sure about that - think we finished paying it off in early 80's. It was the WW1 debt to the USA that we didn't pay off'. Successive Govts. conveniently 'forgot' to, hence the Yanks insistence in '39-'45 that we paid full whack for every single nut and bolt..

[the other bob wilson]

its just zero's though, we will never pay that amount off, so its just figures

That hardly ties in with what we were told in the latter years of the noughties and throughout the 2010s though when we were "all in it together" when it came to balancing the books following the 2008 financial crash.

[Elwood Blues]

Well at least one Tory is willing to say why they still favour them and it seems to be the usual "yeah, but what about Labour?" stuff. I did not mention any other party, I'm just bemused as to what it will take for people who, on the one hand, seem almost embarrassed to admit they are Tories to start to question their allegiance!

Did you know that besides being involved with an organisation that was advocating the abolition of Public Health England, Dido Harding's husband was the Government's anti corruption "Champion"? I didn't, so whether it be politics by Twitter quote or not, David Schneider was passing on something that was relevant and informative, but, like lardy, it seems that it is who is revealing that information that is most important to those who defend this Government, not what he revealed.

Meant to reply to this earlier.

I would describe myself as a Tory voter rather than a Tory which implies a level of support for the party I do not have.


For many years I voted Liberal or SDP or Lib Dem or sometimes Tory. My Dad was a Liberal my grandfather before him even more so, he was from North Wales and really did know Lloyd George!

There is not really a plethora of parties as an alternative. The Liberals shot themselves in the foot with their ridiculous pledge to overturn the referendum result if they got into power (that went well!).

I don't see us being better of if Wales became independent sometime soon so that rules out Plaid.

Which leaves Labour. And yes despite your rather disparaging remark what about them?

I may have some reservations about the Tory performance but that does not mean I will unquestionably vote for Labour just because they have a new leader.

He has done reasonably well particularly at PMQ's where he has often tied Boris in knots, but then as a barrister and ex DPP he really should be able to speak and debate well

But Labour seem to be going back to the olf opposition for oppositions sake which to an extent I can understand but I had hoped that more constructive opposition was here to stay.

As regards your last point well yes I knew about John Penrose. I looked up Dido Harding when she was appointed to Track and Trace some weeks ago.

Then I looked him up. Took a couple of minutes.

You do an excellent quiz before games which must take considerable research.

I an surprised it took Mr Schneider to tell you about Penrose.

Incidentally I am concerned with what is revealed more than who provides the information.

Presumably your are suggesting there is something corrupt about Dido Harding's new appointment?

[the other bob wilson]

Meant to reply to this earlier.

I would describe myself as a Tory voter rather than a Tory which implies a level of support for the party I do not have.


For many years I voted Liberal or SDP or Lib Dem or sometimes Tory. My Dad was a Liberal my grandfather before him even more so, he was from North Wales and really did know Lloyd George!

There is not really a plethora of parties as an alternative. The Liberals shot themselves in the foot with their ridiculous pledge to overturn the referendum result if they got into power (that went well!).

I don't see us being better of if Wales became independent sometime soon so that rules out Plaid.

Which leaves Labour. And yes despite your rather disparaging remark what about them?

I may have some reservations about the Tory performance but that does not mean I will unquestionably vote for Labour just because they have a new leader.

He has done reasonably well particularly at PMQ's where he has often tied Boris in knots, but then as a barrister and ex DPP he really should be able to speak and debate well

But Labour seem to be going back to the olf opposition for oppositions sake which to an extent I can understand but I had hoped that more constructive opposition was here to stay.

As regards your last point well yes I knew about John Penrose. I looked up Dido Harding when she was appointed to Track and Trace some weeks ago.

Then I looked him up. Took a couple of minutes.

You do an excellent quiz before games which must take considerable research.

I an surprised it took Mr Schneider to tell you about Penrose.

Incidentally I am concerned with what is revealed more than who provides the information.

Presumably your are suggesting there is something corrupt about Dido Harding's new appointment?

I knew of Penrose's connection to that organisation that has, apparently, backed privatising the NHS, but not that he was the Government's anti corruption "champion".

Is there something corrupt about Dido Harding's new appointment? I don't know, but I definitely say it is distinctly dodgy and reeks of cronyism of a type that does any political party who indulges in it no favours and it's far from the first instance of jobs for the boys/girls type appointments from a Government that is so intent on trying to centralise things.

I find your comments on the two main parties interesting. On the one hand, after the obligatory "I may have some reservations about the Tory performance", you then, presumably, excuse them completely as you tell me what is wrong with some of the non Labour alternatives who you write off completely on what seem fairly flimsy grounds to me in the case of the Lib Dems.

As for Labour, your main criticism of them appears to be the line that I heard Johnson laughably coming out with during one PMQ session that the opposition is not supporting the Government enough! My guess is that there are plenty of Labour supporters who are critical of their party for giving this Government which, even with making allowances for the crisis' that have been thrust upon them, are unusually error and u turn prone too easy a ride.

I've asked on couple of occasions on here just what is it in this Government's performance in the nine months since the election that is making 40 per cent plus of those who vote stick with them? What answers I've got back have tended to be of the "yeah, but what about Labour" type and there is of course those who still place such stall on getting Brexit "done". There is a third reason I hear from time to time which I'd say strikes me as a desperation on those who use its part not to admit they were wrong to support the Conservatives - they say the Government are trying their best and working really hard.

Really? Some of them may be, but Johnson? Working hard? I think not.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-boris-johnson

It's in the nature of things I suppose, you pick holes in the party you disapprove of's performance while ignoring or excusing equally bad or worse aspects of your own party's workings - I do the former continuously with the Tories and although not so much during this century, I tend to to go easy on the Labour party, but, truly, the amount Conservative voters have had to sweep under the carpet as they stay loyal to Johnson and co is truly breathtaking, what will it take for them to start saying enough is enough?

[xsnaggle]

This is far more informative about the current situation than all the pseudo-political posts doing the rounds.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53656852

It seems things are better than they seem but many on here will not wish to know or acknowledge that.

[CCFCC3PO]

This is far more informative about the current situation than all the pseudo-political posts doing the rounds.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53656852

It seems things are better than they seem but many on here will not wish to know or acknowledge that.

Mods, feel free to delete like you deleted other posts that questioned statements that were passed off as facts earlier today.

This article is 18 days old, so do you have anything more recent? I am not arguing against the source, nor the information in the article, simply pointing out that the article is over 2 weeks old and, since that time, the UK (primarily England) have recorded 1000 or more cases (breaching the Government's own target) on 13 days out of 18. Similarly, since that time Birmingham has been added to the watchlist as cases spike there. Also, people in the North West (Oldham, Pendle and one other place) have been told not to socialise with others to help contain an outbreak there.

It's good to see you quoting the BBC, who you openly criticise, and it is good to see you reading their articles despite your protestations that you do the exact opposite.

[the other bob wilson]

Mods, feel free to delete like you deleted other posts that questioned statements that were passed off as facts earlier today.

This article is 18 days old, so do you have anything more recent? I am not arguing against the source, nor the information in the article, simply pointing out that the article is over 2 weeks old and, since that time, the UK (primarily England) have recorded 1000 or more cases (breaching the Government's own target) on 13 days out of 18. Similarly, since that time Birmingham has been added to the watchlist as cases spike there. Also, people in the North West (Oldham, Pendle and one other place) have been told not to socialise with others to help contain an outbreak there.

It's good to see you quoting the BBC, who you openly criticise, and it is good to see you reading their articles despite your protestations that you do the exact opposite.

Here is a story from three days ago which is on information only released on Friday by the SAGE group - even here though, the R rate figures tend to be taken from two or three weeks earlier, so, as I understand it, the current figure could be quite different;-

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-he...-idUKKBN25H1OG

As you say, the new cases figures are consistently over a 1,000 a day now when it was mostly in the five to six hundred range a day a month ago. There was a story, which I was unable to find this morning, about ten days ago which claimed that getting back to 1,000 cases a day would be a cause for Government concern that a second wave was on the way and so, I'm not sure that BBC story is applicable now although it may have been appropriate at the time it was put out.

The good news as I see it is that the steady trend upwards in new cases looks to have flattened out in the last week and there isn't any great sign yet that we are experiencing what is happening in Spain and France at the moment where the upward curve has been much more pronounced, so, having been quick to knock the UK Government in the past for their handling of the virus, that is a step in the right direction for them - albeit a small one.

[CCFCC3PO]

What happened to the posts from earlier?

[Michael Morris]

What happened to the posts from earlier?

The ones where grown men were bickering and trying to throw cheap jibes at each other?

[CCFCC3PO]

The ones where grown men were bickering and trying to throw cheap jibes at each other?

I must have missed those then, although your mod kept posting waving smileys for some reason. Maybe there were other things posted after I logged off, but compared to the Organ Morgan belittling thread started by The Lone Gunman, I didn't witness anything that over the top.