Coronavirus update - NO MORE RESTRICTIONS

[xsnaggle]

Well if this is a full lockdown God help us.
I've been out and about today and there is an awful lot of traffic in the City and outside it for a country that is supposed to be doing nothing but essential things.
And last night on the M$ I lost count of the number of cars I passed driving into Wales with top boxes fitted, presumable full of all the pressies that they were bringing to be with family for christmas. I got the impression they were rushing to get into the country before the Midnight deadline.
I get the impression tat people are becoming weary of it and perhaps taking a more fatalist attitude to things

[the other bob wilson]

It's not a very nice thing to say, but I've got to the stage where I'm a little bit blasé about daily death figures, but I couldn't help noticing that there were 69 deaths reported in Wales in today's figures - apparently, that's the most in a day since figures started being recorded in March and this on a weekend when the numbers are supposed to be lower.
Condolences to all friends and family of the 69 deceased.

[Elwood Blues]

It's not a very nice thing to say, but I've got to the stage where I'm a little bit blasé about daily death figures, but I couldn't help noticing that there were 69 deaths reported in Wales in today's figures - apparently, that's the most in a day since figures started being recorded in March and this on a weekend when the numbers are supposed to be lower.
Condolences to all friends and family of the 69 deceased.

Don't know what the figures are where you are Bob, but my son lives in Bridgend and he says that the number of cases is over 1,000 per 100,000 there.

He isn't coming down over Christmas.

[the other bob wilson]

Don't know what the figures are where you are Bob, but my son lives in Bridgend and he says that the number of cases is over 1,000 per 100,000 there.

He isn't coming down over Christmas.

Your son is right - see what is the Covid case rate in this link;-

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-55384502

[MacAdder]

I've just read a thread on twitter where it's being suggested Londoner's can travel just as long as they've booked a house viewing in another part of the country and can even cancel the viewing on arrival. Earlier in the week the Tory MP tried to argue that their Christmas party was in fact a business lunch.

Just how much hard work is going into getting around the guidance/rules?! Is that why the UK is currently ranked towards worst performing countries?

Must be true then

Your question isn't beyond the realms of possibility and stories such as this certainly aren't helping.
There is too much distrust of the authorities in this country from many.
An attitude of anything goes just don't get caught and if you do get caught, you'd better be a "somebody".

[Gofer Blue]

I actually felt sorry for Matt Hancock on the Andrew Marr programme this morning. He looked close to tears at one point - what a thankless job. It is unusual for a politician to come out and say that actually it is dear old Joe Public to blame for the spread of the virus by their selfish attitude; however Hancock was visibly annoyed when he saw the video of the mass exodus at one of the London main line stations and actually said so too!

[the other bob wilson]

I actually felt sorry for Matt Hancock on the Andrew Marr programme this morning. He looked close to tears at one point - what a thankless job. It is unusual for a politician to come out and say that actually it is dear old Joe Public to blame for the spread of the virus by their selfish attitude; however Hancock was visibly annoyed when he saw the video of the mass exodus at one of the London main line stations and actually said so too!

I didn't. Hancock wasn't above helping his mate the landlord get a very lucrative PPE contract and defended Cummings' jaunt up to Durham which, for me, has always been the single biggest reason for the breakdown in trust that has occurred between people and Government which has occurred since then. The attitude of "if it was alright for Dominic Cummings it's alright for me" was, I'm pretty sure, in the minds of some of those people Hancock branded as selfish for catching those trains on Saturday night - if the public are now behaving in a way which is helping the spread of the virus, there is no way the UK Government can say that their actions through 2020 have had nothing to do with such behaviour.

[Vindec]

I didn't. Hancock wasn't above helping his mate the landlord get a very lucrative PPE contract and defended Cummings' jaunt up to Durham which, for me, has always been the single biggest reason for the breakdown in trust that has occurred between people and Government which has occurred since then. The attitude of "if it was alright for Dominic Cummings it's alright for me" was, I'm pretty sure, in the minds of some of those people Hancock branded as selfish for catching those trains on Saturday night - if the public are now behaving in a way which is helping the spread of the virus, there is no way the UK Government can say that their actions through 2020 have had nothing to do with such behaviour.

There is a lot of speculation about Hancock giving contracts to his mates.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-establishment

https://www.ft.com/content/7bf2fbdc-...4-fac15ecfc222

These articles are at first sight compelling and will be investigated when full details of the contracts are revealed.

What is of no doubt is the failure of the Government to deal appropriately with the Cummings debacle. He should have been sacked there and then. However, it's a big leap to suggest that those catching trains on Saturday have anything to do with the Cummings affair. It might be used as an excuse by those transgressing the rules but that doesn't wash with me.

Seeing those on London train stations probably didn't give Cummings a second thought; their driving force was to get home for Xmas and had nothing to do with Cummings. Irrespective of Cummings they would have gone anyway. Indeed the youngsters cavorting around the streets in the North of England on the weekend probably had never heard of Cummings.

While the public in general have obeyed the restrictions throughout the various lockdowns there are very many individuals that have ignored the rules and have rightfully been branded idiots as indeed was Cummings.

[the other bob wilson]

There is a lot of speculation about Hancock giving contracts to his mates.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-establishment

https://www.ft.com/content/7bf2fbdc-...4-fac15ecfc222

These articles are at first sight compelling and will be investigated when full details of the contracts are revealed.

What is of no doubt is the failure of the Government to deal appropriately with the Cummings debacle. He should have been sacked there and then. However, it's a big leap to suggest that those catching trains on Saturday have anything to do with the Cummings affair. It might be used as an excuse by those transgressing the rules but that doesn't wash with me.

Seeing those on London train stations probably didn't give Cummings a second thought; their driving force was to get home for Xmas and had nothing to do with Cummings. Irrespective of Cummings they would have gone anyway. Indeed the youngsters cavorting around the streets in the North of England on the weekend probably had never heard of Cummings.

While the public in general have obeyed the restrictions throughout the various lockdowns there are very many individuals that have ignored the rules and have rightfully been branded idiots as indeed was Cummings.

I took care to say some of those catching trains will have thought of Dominic Cummings, but, when you think back to the spring, high profile people such as that Professor Ferguson and the lady who is Chief Medical Officer of Scotland, to name but two, had to resign after breaking the rules. then we saw politicians like Robert Jenrick and Stephen Kinnock brazening it out before Cummings, frankly, took the piss out of us all. The spring lockdown was, generally, well observed and, for a while, an "all in it together" attitude prevailed, but Cummings especially changed all of that as people twigged that, at has always been the case, there is one rule for almost all of us and another one for the favoured few - that's what drives the sort of actions seen on Saturday night in London.

[Vindec]

I took care to say some of those catching trains will have thought of Dominic Cummings, but, when you think back to the spring, high profile people such as that Professor Ferguson and the lady who is Chief Medical Officer of Scotland, to name but two, had to resign after breaking the rules. then we saw politicians like Robert Jenrick and Stephen Kinnock brazening it out before Cummings, frankly, took the piss out of us all.

Just because all of those acted stupidly doesn't mean you or I have to act inappropriately. It's a convenient excuse for some but I bet those on the station over the weekend didn't give these individuals a second thought; their motivation was to get home for Xmas. Had the episodes you quoted not have happened the probability is that these people still would have acted in the same way. They were idiots just like Cummings, Jenrick and Co.

[Eric Cartman]

Bit of deliberate misdirection (or maybe people genuinely missing the point) going on in this thread. I don't think anybody would reasonably expect the government to be able to predict the unpredictable but they should not have given the impression weeks ago that Christmas was going to be normal when things were on a knife edge and really they didn't know.

As usual, they have taken the credit/praise/joy when making the big announcement (see track and trace, PPE, etc) and then when they fail to deliver they tell you how hard it was and why it wasnt their fault (and in this case how it is actually your fault). In real life that is called 'over promising and under delivering' and is usually a case of somebody being naive or optimistic. Unfortunately this isnt the case with this government, it is a big part of their cynical playbook. They rely on weak questioning from the media and a fast news cycle which disposes of the 'bad news' story as soon as it appears.

They don't deserve a shred of sympathy because as usual it was entirely their perogative to set the stage the way they have. Another way to look at this is that if someone is deliberately seeking sympathy then they probably don't deserve it.

[billy.ronson]

So does the new strain knock "Herd immunity" on the head? Forget politics, (England, Wales and Scotland leaders are all different parties and none have succeeded in controlling the virus) the UK has done an awful job of dealing with this virus since day one. A pity the EU and other countries didn't lock us down in spring when this first started or in the summer when people were flying everywhere to create these new strains!!

[goats]

So does the new strain knock "Herd immunity" on the head? Forget politics, (England, Wales and Scotland leaders are all different parties and none have succeeded in controlling the virus) the UK has done an awful job of dealing with this virus since day one. A pity the EU and other countries didn't lock us down in spring when this first started or in the summer when people were flying everywhere to create these new strains!!

Don’t know, as it’s the same virus it’s probably the same outcome. We should have been devious like the Chinese and covered it up

[A Quiet Monkfish]

Don’t know, as it’s the same virus it’s probably the same outcome. We should have been devious like the Chinese and covered it up

Lockdowns haven't worked. They've actually accelerated the spread - here and also in other European countries. Whilst isolated cases of bad behaviour have occurred, the pubs, bars, cafes, restaurants have helped keep people take enjoyment in a 'controlled' environment. The blanket closure/restrictions have driven them behind closed doors in houses and flats instead, in close proximity to friends and family - of all ages. Wasn't it in early March we were going to 'flatted the curve' ?

I think folk are beginning to realise that 'lockdowns' are now as much politically as medically motivated.

[lardy]

Lockdowns haven't worked. They've actually accelerated the spread - here and also in other European countries. Whilst isolated cases of bad behaviour have occurred, the pubs, bars, cafes, restaurants have helped keep people take enjoyment in a 'controlled' environment. The blanket closure/restrictions have driven them behind closed doors in houses and flats instead, in close proximity to friends and family - of all ages. Wasn't it in early March we were going to 'flatted the curve' ?

I think folk are beginning to realise that 'lockdowns' are now as much politically as medically motivated.

This is not correct. A lockdown does not increase the spread of the virus.

Logically that makes no sense, and there's no evidence for it.

And I've no idea how they are politically motivated

[Allez Allez Allez]

This is not correct. A lockdown does not increase the spread of the virus.

Logically that makes no sense, and there's no evidence for it.

And I've no idea how they are politically motivated

Thanks for pulling him up on his misinformation which has, most likely, come from a source that is politically motivated.

Lockdowns would be more effective if people followed the rules, of course. The reason they are put in place is to restrict those people who have a sense of moral duty to their fellow citizens. For others, they carry on as usual and moan about there being nowhere to drink and down the road there are ITUs full of dying people.

[Hilts]

Lockdowns haven't worked. They've actually accelerated the spread - here and also in other European countries. Whilst isolated cases of bad behaviour have occurred, the pubs, bars, cafes, restaurants have helped keep people take enjoyment in a 'controlled' environment. The blanket closure/restrictions have driven them behind closed doors in houses and flats instead, in close proximity to friends and family - of all ages. Wasn't it in early March we were going to 'flatted the curve' ?

I think folk are beginning to realise that 'lockdowns' are now as much politically as medically motivated.

Youve had a mare here

[the other bob wilson]

So does the new strain knock "Herd immunity" on the head? Forget politics, (England, Wales and Scotland leaders are all different parties and none have succeeded in controlling the virus) the UK has done an awful job of dealing with this virus since day one. A pity the EU and other countries didn't lock us down in spring when this first started or in the summer when people were flying everywhere to create these new strains!!

This is a part of this whole thing which has always baffled me. A brand new lethal virus arrives on the scene at the end of 2019 and within no time we have all sorts of people stating with great certainty what will be happening in the coming months and years. Even genuine experts when it comes to the science surely could not have been totally sure what was going to happen, yet throughout 2020 we have had people on this football messageboard who have claimed they know precisely what is happening and what will happen.
I'm not an expert, but, as far as herd immunity goes, the same question has always occurred to me and I'm unaware of it ever having been answered. If we've been living through the first wave of a new virus, how can the sort of people who got to make what is now looking like a disastrous decision in Sweden have been able to say for certain that you will not get Covid once you've had it? There is evidence of people catching the virus twice, so, even if this is only happening to a small number, doesn't this knock the whole concept of herd immunity on the head?

[Allez Allez Allez]

This is a part of this whole thing which has always baffled me. A brand new lethal virus arrives on the scene at the end of 2019 and within no time we have all sorts of people stating with great certainty what will be happening in the coming months and years. Even genuine experts when it comes to the science surely could not have been totally sure what was going to happen, yet throughout 2020 we have had people on this football messageboard who have claimed they know precisely what is happening and what will happen.
I'm not an expert, but, as far as herd immunity goes, the same question has always occurred to me and I'm unaware of it ever having been answered. If we've been living through the first wave of a new virus, how can the sort of people who got to make what is now looking like a disastrous decision in Sweden have been able to say for certain that you will not get Covid once you've had it? There is evidence of people catching the virus twice, so, even if this is only happening to a small number, doesn't this knock the whole concept of herd immunity on the head?

Herd immunity is only ever possible, or discussed, with vaccination in mind.

The latest strain is unlikely to mean the vaccine becomes ineffective, but the virus is showing that it may be capable of vaccine escape in a few more mutations. However, the vaccines that we have are likely to be effective with tweaks thanks to the genome profiling that is taking place. The most worrying issue is, would we fall into a place where we needed 2 vaccine programs (old covid and new covid). Also antibodies of sufferers of other strains of covid seem less effective when battling the new strain.

[caerkid]

I was in fact criticising Sir Keir for slagging off the UK Government when not saying anything when the Labour administration in Wales does something similar. I realise he has no actual control over the Welsh government but you would have thought they would have both sung from the same hymn sheet.

"I presume That If Keir Starmer is criticising Boris about the late Christmas change, he has also been on the phone to tell Mark Drakeford off for doing the same???

And to be fair whenever the Tories trot out their stock response to Starmer that "this isn't the time to play politics" and everyone should "get behind the government" they always caveat it with the statement "* doesn't apply in countries where we are the opposition"

[billy.ronson]

Seeing I am only just recovering from having Covid then I guess I have to hope it was the new strain?

[Taunton Blue Genie]

One thing for everyone to bear in mind is that even if we are vaccinated against the virus and are immune to it, it will still be possible to of pass on the virus to others by transference by hand e.g. by our touching something tangible that has the virus on it and then going onto touch something else. We are well aware of this concept already, of course, but some people may forget about it in the excitement of getting a vaccination. And as for dating sites, it's best to go for much older women as they will be immunised first.....

[Allez Allez Allez]

One thing for everyone to bear in mind is that even if we are vaccinated against the virus and are immune to it, it will still be possible to of pass on the virus to others by transference by hand e.g. by our touching something tangible that has the virus on it and then going onto touch something else. We are well aware of this concept already, of course, but some people may forget about it in the excitement of getting a vaccination. And as for dating sites, it's best to go for much older women as they will be immunised first.....

Yes, I think that needs to be communicated by the Government in a better way.

The Oxford vaccine has shown signs of reducing transmission, but there isn't a lot of data at the moment.

[delmbox]

Has there been any mention of a tweak to the 2m rule being that it's spread much more easily? Or is that not how it works

[Gofer Blue]

I see Sainsburys have lit the blue touch paper regarding likely fresh food shortages in the supermarkets due to the French border closure. Cue a decent amount of panic buying I suspect. Thankfully I have a good stock of tinned corned beef - who needs fresh veg anyway!!