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Thread: Johnson is dithering and a danger to us all.

  1. #91
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    Re: Johnson is dithering and a danger to us all.

    This thread has been brought to you by the colour red !!! Gave me a good laugh though and relieved the tedium of self-isolation. Thanks to all who participated.

  2. #92
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    Re: Johnson is dithering and a danger to us all.

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    Well if you're trying to argue that going with the herd mentality approach for a while and then doing a complete about face was all part of some masterplan, then good luck on that. Also, it's clearly counter productive to have people who may already have had and recovered from the virus sat at home because someone where they live may have it. The means to test more people and in greater numbers quicker and more efficiently was paramount surely, but,instead we took the decision only to test those with the worst symptoms - as I say, poor decision making as opposed to flawed political allegiance.
    The test for people who have already had it to determine if they have an imunity and can go back to work, and the test of those who show severe signs of having it are completely different. The emphasis is on tresting those with severe symptoms. The other test is being tested now to see it if works and if it does that will be rolled out next.

  3. #93

    Re: Johnson is dithering and a danger to us all.

    Quote Originally Posted by xsnaggle View Post
    The test for people who have already had it to determine if they have an imunity and can go back to work, and the test of those who show severe signs of having it are completely different. The emphasis is on tresting those with severe symptoms. The other test is being tested now to see it if works and if it does that will be rolled out next.
    I know all of that. It just seems so wrong that a month and more since the virus took a hold in Italy, we're still not in a position where we can test at any more than a level which is so restricted - I'm sorry, but it just should not be like that.

  4. #94
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    Re: Johnson is dithering and a danger to us all.

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    I know all of that. It just seems so wrong that a month and more since the virus took a hold in Italy, we're still not in a position where we can test at any more than a level which is so restricted - I'm sorry, but it just should not be like that.
    It really isnít that simple. My company is one of several large medical companies who have launched a COVID-19 test in record time ... months !!! And that is thanks to the FDA massively relaxing the usual protocols. We hope to be producing tests in the millions by the end of March. Staff in the US and elsewhere worldwide have been literally working around the clock and it is incredible achievement, especially given the laws surrounding drug/medical testing and production. Itís just not as simple as do lots more tests. Mass testing has to be scalable, affordable and available, and that takes time!

    You will have heard Chris Witty talking about the antibody test which tests for the presence of antibodies. This will tell whether youíve had COVID-19, not whether you have it. The test we are releasing uses PCR to replicate RNA and will take around 4 hours. The testing equipment can only do a certain number of tests per hour and you need enough laboratory staff to run and validate the tests. That is a challenge in itself. My partner is a biomedical scientist and is presently on 14 day isolation. So the labs have challenges. Get more blood testing machines you might say. Again itís not that simple as they must be delivered, installed and validated (that is my job). Again this takes many weeks per machine.

    When you have a validated machine you then require the consumables to run the tests in bulk. Another huge manufacturing task and challenge. So itís just not as simple to say weíve had an extra month and should be able to do so much more testing. It just doesnít work like that for a new virus!

  5. #95

    Re: Johnson is dithering and a danger to us all.

    I do not have subscription and therefore cannot judge nature of whole article but wonder if rest follows on from what you can see for free: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...s-eu-pandemic/

    Matt Hancock's department wanted to retain membership of the Early Warning and Response System (EWRS) as part of the EU-UK future relationship deal Ė but Number  10 said no, The Daily Telegraph has learnt.
    Senior health advisers warned that exiting the EWRS Ė which has helped coordinate the response to the virus and played a vital role during the bird flu outbreak Ė would put public health at risk.
    However, the British negotiating team, which reports to Boris Johnson, did not want to blur the UK's request for a basic, Canada-style trade deal, it is claimed. Every add-on requested by the UK would risk giving the EU leverage to demand post-Brexit alignment....
    Note that it was The Times that was most critical of Cummings and UK government's role in "herd immunity" plan and now Telegraph is writing this.

  6. #96

    Re: Johnson is dithering and a danger to us all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Dargavel View Post
    It really isn’t that simple. My company is one of several large medical companies who have launched a COVID-19 test in record time ... months !!! And that is thanks to the FDA massively relaxing the usual protocols. We hope to be producing tests in the millions by the end of March. Staff in the US and elsewhere worldwide have been literally working around the clock and it is incredible achievement, especially given the laws surrounding drug/medical testing and production. It’s just not as simple as do lots more tests. Mass testing has to be scalable, affordable and available, and that takes time!

    You will have heard Chris Witty talking about the antibody test which tests for the presence of antibodies. This will tell whether you’ve had COVID-19, not whether you have it. The test we are releasing uses PCR to replicate RNA and will take around 4 hours. The testing equipment can only do a certain number of tests per hour and you need enough laboratory staff to run and validate the tests. That is a challenge in itself. My partner is a biomedical scientist and is presently on 14 day isolation. So the labs have challenges. Get more blood testing machines you might say. Again it’s not that simple as they must be delivered, installed and validated (that is my job). Again this takes many weeks per machine.

    When you have a validated machine you then require the consumables to run the tests in bulk. Another huge manufacturing task and challenge. So it’s just not as simple to say we’ve had an extra month and should be able to do so much more testing. It just doesn’t work like that for a new virus!
    I can't dispute what you are saying, so I won't, but I do look at countries like China, South Korea and Germany off the top of my head who appear to have been far more effective at overcoming all of these problems.

  7. #97

    Re: Johnson is dithering and a danger to us all.

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    I can't dispute what you are saying, so I won't, but I do look at countries like China, South Korea and Germany off the top of my head who appear to have been far more effective at overcoming all of these problems.
    If you believe China have been effective, I've a bridge to sell you.

    Anybody believing China's figures given their suppression of info about the virus initially, persecution of whistleblowers and indeed telling WHO in Jan there had been no person to person infections is a tad naive.

    China have almost certainly disappeared many.

  8. #98

    Re: Johnson is dithering and a danger to us all.

    Quote Originally Posted by tell it like it is View Post
    If you believe China have been effective, I've a bridge to sell you.

    Anybody believing China's figures given their suppression of info about the virus initially, persecution of whistleblowers and indeed telling WHO in Jan there had been no person to person infections is a tad naive.

    China have almost certainly disappeared many.
    I agree that there will be doubts about the sort of statistical studies seen in another thread today while they are almost entirely reliant on Chinese figures, but what about the other countries I mentioned?

  9. #99

    Re: Johnson is dithering and a danger to us all.

    Singapore have done well, South Korea managed to come back from what looked like disaster, czechia have managed very well, Germany too.

    Then Italy and Spain have had and are having a nightmare.

  10. #100

    Re: Johnson is dithering and a danger to us all.

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    I agree that there will be doubts about the sort of statistical studies seen in another thread today while they are almost entirely reliant on Chinese figures, but what about the other countries I mentioned?
    Italy, Spain et al.

    It may well be South Korea, Germany are outliers for some reason.

    Are all nations using exactly the same methodology for recording the stats?

  11. #101

    Re: Johnson is dithering and a danger to us all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Croesy Blue View Post
    Singapore have done well, South Korea managed to come back from what looked like disaster, czechia have managed very well, Germany too.

    Then Italy and Spain have had and are having a nightmare.
    Singapore introduced tough measures early on, and that enabled them to stay at roughly that rate for weeks. In recent days it's stepped up further, but even now isolation is not at the point that it is in the UK.

  12. #102

    Re: Johnson is dithering and a danger to us all.

    It's being reported that Boris Johnson has tested positive for it.

  13. #103

    Re: Johnson is dithering and a danger to us all.

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    It's being reported that Boris Johnson has tested positive for it.
    Johnson is dithering and a danger to himself

  14. #104

    Re: Johnson is dithering and a danger to us all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Croesy Blue View Post
    Johnson is dithering and a danger to himself
    Maybe he caught it from non-isolating Corbyn who was coughing at PMQs?

  15. #105

    Re: Johnson is dithering and a danger to us all.

    Quote Originally Posted by tell it like it is View Post
    Maybe he caught it from non-isolating Corbyn who was coughing at PMQs?
    Hopefully, continue the coughing comrad Corbyn, communism will be upon us soon.

  16. #106

    Re: Johnson is dithering and a danger to us all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Croesy Blue View Post
    Johnson is dithering and a danger to himself
    And his current squeeze who is with child.

  17. #107

    Re: Johnson is dithering and a danger to us all.

    Quote Originally Posted by IanD View Post
    And his current squeeze who is with child.
    Yeah feel terribel for her, it's not sure but looks like it could potentially be very dangerous to pregnant women

  18. #108

    Re: Johnson is dithering and a danger to us all.

    Angela Rayner also self-isolating with it.

  19. #109

    Re: Johnson is dithering and a danger to us all.

    Quote Originally Posted by tell it like it is View Post
    Maybe he caught it from non-isolating Corbyn who was coughing at PMQs?
    Maybe he caught it when he was at that hospital, shaking all those coronavirus patients' hands.

    He spoke about it on TV.

    Well done Boris. Stiff upper lip 1, Virus 0.
    '

  20. #110

    Re: Johnson is dithering and a danger to us all.

    Quote Originally Posted by William Treseder View Post
    To be fair, although threads like this pop up every now and then, and they can be quite amusing, as usual, itís just all guff and hot air.
    Since I was born, there have only ever been Conservative and Labour Governments in the UK, with the exception of one coalition.
    Itís been the same arguments, regurgitated, time after time..
    Iíve yet to see a government that can keep a 60m + population all happy, and I never will.
    Itís easier to nail blancmange to a ceiling.
    A socialist country would be as fraught with problems as a capitalist country is.
    Mankind will always have folk at the bottom and folk at the top.
    There will always be poor folk and rich folk.
    There will always be strong folk and weak folk.
    The majority of us find our comfortable niche somewhere in the equation, live our lives as well as we can and then shuffle off our mortal coils into oblivion.
    If we can navigate through what can sometimes be a beautiful world, and sometimes a complete cess pit, to a ripe old age, then we can count ourselves to be the lucky ones.
    Well said and very right.
    The worrying thing for general politics is if labour mess up the latest leadership campaign I doubt I will ever see a labour Government again in my lifetime and I am 67 years old.
    Many of the incumbents are virtually stating that they firmly believe in Corbynís policies and will continue with them.
    So basically the electorate are stupid ?
    They need to look for serious change. Many criticise Blair but at least he realised that continuing opposition is just moaning and whinging without any difference. You need power

  21. #111

    Re: Johnson is dithering and a danger to us all.

    Health Secretary has CV too.

  22. #112

    Re: Johnson is dithering and a danger to us all.

    Quote Originally Posted by rudy gestede View Post
    Oh look it’s the 2 dick heads of the apocalypse!

    It should surprise nobody that the 2 biggest dunces on this board are Tory voters.
    Resorting to personal abuse because you don't agree with others posts, is symptomatic of lack of intelligence and corrupt arguments. Keep it up.

  23. #113

    Re: Johnson is dithering and a danger to us all.

    Let's talk about dithering and not doing anything shall we...

    https://truepublica.org.uk/united-ki...iqSh683djbVDyM

  24. #114

    Re: Johnson is dithering and a danger to us all.

    Credible source, that...

  25. #115
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    Re: Johnson is dithering and a danger to us all.

    Quote Originally Posted by fingers View Post
    Let's talk about dithering and not doing anything shall we...

    https://truepublica.org.uk/united-ki...iqSh683djbVDyM
    That is damning. The same story in the USA - only there they not only didn't act on the pandemic crisis advice, they (Trump) dismantled the response and planning teams.

  26. #116

    Re: Johnson is dithering and a danger to us all.

    Quote Originally Posted by tell it like it is View Post
    Credible source, that...
    https://www.england.nhs.uk/wp-conten...17-item-10.pdf

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/n...test-8pnmdpdfx

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politic...event-pandemic

    https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/arti...ot-the-public/

    There are plenty of sources from every political leaning saying the same thing.

  27. #117

    Re: Johnson is dithering and a danger to us all.

    Yet Ferguson's latest report says that NHS capacity is ok...

    Who to believe?

  28. #118

    Re: Johnson is dithering and a danger to us all.

    Quote Originally Posted by tell it like it is View Post
    Yet Ferguson's latest report says that NHS capacity is ok...

    Who to believe?
    Hasn't he said it is ok only if we keep people inside?

  29. #119

    Re: Johnson is dithering and a danger to us all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Croesy Blue View Post
    Hasn't he said it is ok only if we keep people inside?
    Self-isolation is working by the looks of things, although we're talking about models that have assumptions built it.

    We've no knowledge if those assumptions are correct - clearly initial ones were not, hence Ferguson revising his figure of deaths down dramatically.

    It seem German figures are calculated differently to us and others - in German if someone has an underlying illness and Cv, the underlying illness tends to be given as cause of death, here it's other way round I seem to recall reading.

  30. #120

    Re: Johnson is dithering and a danger to us all.

    Let's hope he's right

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