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Thread: Why is this Virus Worse in Spain & Italy?

  1. #1

    Why is this Virus Worse in Spain & Italy?

    As it stands. Anyone got any theories or is there any hard evidence out there? Are there lots of extended family living together, People in very close proximity together or have the government and public failed to take this seriously-Initially?

  2. #2

    Re: Why is this Virus Worse in Spain & Italy?

    I think initially it wasn't taken as seriously as it was here, plus they're both very social countries and quit tactile with friends etc.

    During the first few weeks of their "lock down" people were still going to bars and restaurants etc.

    Also Italy at least has an old population.

    Not sure if they are the exact reasons but those are the ones I've read.

  3. #3

    Re: Why is this Virus Worse in Spain & Italy?

    I've heard it said that those two countries are more tactile than most in Europe and I suppose it could be that the temperatures tend to be higher there than other on the continent, but I'm not really convinced about either of those. It seems to me that in a lot of countries with high rates, much of it is not hit that hard, but they, China and USA all have "hot spots", that's figures are so much worse than any where else - we have it here in Wales to some extent because I'm pretty sure I read that almost half of the deaths so far have come in the area served by the Royal Gwent Hospital - that may partially explain it.

  4. #4

    Re: Why is this Virus Worse in Spain & Italy?

    There's compilation videos of Italian mayors going absolutely schizo on people for not paying attention to the quarantine, so I guess there's more than a bit of refusal to do what they've been told.

  5. #5

    Re: Why is this Virus Worse in Spain & Italy?

    It will be interesting how all this pans out in Sweden. They seem to have taken a very laid back approach to things over there.
    It was only a week or so ago that they said there couldn't be gatherings of more than 500, now they've amended that to 50.
    Bars and cafés are still open, as are schools.

  6. #6

    Re: Why is this Virus Worse in Spain & Italy?

    Apparently its worse in Northern Italy, because atalanta played valencia a couple of days before lockdown.
    Attendance 44000.

    https://www.si.com/.amp/soccer/2020/...ro-milan-italy

  7. #7

    Re: Why is this Virus Worse in Spain & Italy?

    It's the constant handshaking, hugging and kissing that does it. It's the same here in France, although, in addition, the French don't wash their hands. Lucky to find soap or sometimes even a wash basin in the loos in bars and restaurants.

  8. #8

    Re: Why is this Virus Worse in Spain & Italy?

    Is it worse, we seem to be back on the same trajectory as Italy after a delay of a couple of days.

  9. #9

    Re: Why is this Virus Worse in Spain & Italy?

    Quote Originally Posted by CCFCC3PO View Post
    Is it worse, we seem to be back on the same trajectory as Italy after a delay of a couple of days.
    Looks like today is a particularly bad day, I did hear on the radio yesterday a few low days to be followed by a return to the norm should be expected

  10. #10

    Re: Why is this Virus Worse in Spain & Italy?

    I read that one of the key reasons behind the rapid spread in Italy was that the social distancing and only allowing key workers to travel were introduced slowly. In the north especially parents were still required to go to work but the schools had closed. The upshot was that the kids were looked after by the grandparents hence the explosion in contagious cases and ultimate deaths particularly amongst the older age groups.

  11. #11

    Re: Why is this Virus Worse in Spain & Italy?

    Italy had the bad luck of being the first country hit by this disease and were essentially caught on the hop, all other countries had a couple of weeks to see how it panned out there. Sadly most countries waited too long before taking the extreme measures (USA being an unbelievably bad example) and its going to cost of potentially millions of lives.

  12. #12

    Re: Why is this Virus Worse in Spain & Italy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rock_Flock_of_Five View Post
    It will be interesting how all this pans out in Sweden. They seem to have taken a very laid back approach to things over there.
    It was only a week or so ago that they said there couldn't be gatherings of more than 500, now they've amended that to 50.
    Bars and cafés are still open, as are schools.
    Football and ice-hockey games are still being played in Belarus and in front of crowds.

  13. #13

    Re: Why is this Virus Worse in Spain & Italy?

    Quote Originally Posted by CCFCC3PO View Post
    Is it worse, we seem to be back on the same trajectory as Italy after a delay of a couple of days.
    400 deaths reported today (UK)

  14. #14

    Re: Why is this Virus Worse in Spain & Italy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie View Post
    Football and ice-hockey games are still being played in Belarus and in front of crowds.
    Have you ever been to Belarus? I watch the odd Travel Blog on Youtube, i think there's one called Bald & Bankrupt, he went to Belarus and got on the piss with some Babushkas, drinking their home brew. Very informative!

  15. #15
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    Re: Why is this Virus Worse in Spain & Italy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuerto View Post
    As it stands. Anyone got any theories or is there any hard evidence out there? Are there lots of extended family living together, People in very close proximity together or have the government and public failed to take this seriously-Initially?
    No Idea!!!! but eldest population in Europe a contributory factor?
    we have web site after web site giving us a breakdown of deaths, and i would guess that some exist but context of the deaths
    (age & pre conditions etc.) would give a maybe better insight, the hip managers i come across in my industry would be barking orders give me a root cause analysis, I tweeted talk radio this morning as they had a doctor on and was surprised that my question was put to the doctor, it was regarding the immune system, the answer given by the doc was a good result for me personally and anyone who's immune system has suffered to an attack on it in the past.

  16. #16

    Re: Why is this Virus Worse in Spain & Italy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rock_Flock_of_Five View Post
    It will be interesting how all this pans out in Sweden. They seem to have taken a very laid back approach to things over there.
    It was only a week or so ago that they said there couldn't be gatherings of more than 500, now they've amended that to 50.
    Bars and cafés are still open, as are schools.
    Read about Sweden today, seems crazy. I fear the worst for India and parts of Africa.

  17. #17

    Re: Why is this Virus Worse in Spain & Italy?

    The Italians tend to be tactile and make a big thing of meal times i.e. loads of visitors whereas we tend to get home from work, have a beer in front the TV and go to bed.

  18. #18

    Re: Why is this Virus Worse in Spain & Italy?

    Quote Originally Posted by elytillidie View Post
    Read about Sweden today, seems crazy. I fear the worst for India and parts of Africa.
    India, with their overcrowded cities and poor hygiene practices seems the perfect cocktail for it to really take a grip there.
    Mind you, I saw videos today of the Indian police beating the crap out of anyone in public not wearing a mask. Many of them were being dragged off their motorbikes for wearing handkerchiefs around their face and not suitable masks.

  19. #19

    Re: Why is this Virus Worse in Spain & Italy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuerto View Post
    As it stands. Anyone got any theories or is there any hard evidence out there? Are there lots of extended family living together, People in very close proximity together or have the government and public failed to take this seriously-Initially?
    Some of Italy is lovely, but a lot of it is a shithole, I think it's because so many of them live in flats, so they are all on top of each other and the communal areas have been breeding grounds early on so it spread much quicker.

    Where else is there problems, London, Madrid, New York everywhere has lots of flats and are densely populated.

    Also as above the people are all over each other and they do have lots of oldies and multi-generation living in the same households.

  20. #20

    Re: Why is this Virus Worse in Spain & Italy?

    My theory no proof:

    We may manage flu like viruses better via our DNA.
    We have less elderly.
    Quality of life for elderly better in UK than in rural parts of Italy and Spain.
    Better health services.
    More disposable income to support a varied diet
    Better public health than the outer rural areas of Spain and Italy.
    Its vastness of land , may hinder health care reach

    It is interesting that the UK and Germany are coping better I would hazard a guess if has better benefits than a number of European countries .

    These are just thoughts, probably wrong .

  21. #21

    Re: Why is this Virus Worse in Spain & Italy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rock_Flock_of_Five View Post
    India, with their overcrowded cities and poor hygiene practices seems the perfect cocktail for it to really take a grip there.
    Mind you, I saw videos today of the Indian police beating the crap out of anyone in public not wearing a mask. Many of them were being dragged off their motorbikes for wearing handkerchiefs around their face and not suitable masks.
    Gosh and we hate Boris and his ruling party 🤔

  22. #22

    Re: Why is this Virus Worse in Spain & Italy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuerto View Post
    Have you ever been to Belarus? I watch the odd Travel Blog on Youtube, i think there's one called Bald & Bankrupt, he went to Belarus and got on the piss with some Babushkas, drinking their home brew. Very informative!
    Yes. Last year I visited Moldova, Ukraine and Belarus - and which meant that I have visited every country in Europe.
    Belarus (aka White Russia) is meant to a very repressive state but the capital, Minsk, is clean, sophisticated and stylish (unlike the Couchsurfing host who was meant to accommodate me for the first night of my stay).

  23. #23

    Re: Why is this Virus Worse in Spain & Italy?

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    My theory no proof:

    We may manage flu like viruses better via our DNA.
    We have less elderly.
    Quality of life for elderly better in UK than in rural parts of Italy and Spain.
    Better health services.
    More disposable income to support a varied diet
    Better public health than the outer rural areas of Spain and Italy.
    Its vastness of land , may hinder health care reach

    It is interesting that the UK and Germany are coping better I would hazard a guess if has better benefits than a number of European countries .

    These are just thoughts, probably wrong .
    So, so wrong.

  24. #24

    Re: Why is this Virus Worse in Spain & Italy?

    Think I read Italy is second only to Japan with its very high aged population.

    This is a Sky News video about rising social tensions in southern Italy.



  25. #25

    Re: Why is this Virus Worse in Spain & Italy?

    It only doesn’t look as bad here yet because we haven’t ramped up testing. Thanks to the dithering by Boris and his useless puppet of a scientific advisor Sir Patrick Herd Immunity Valance the UK will probably end up worse than both.

    It took a premier league football manager to contract the virus before this country started taking it serious ffs.

  26. #26

    Re: Why is this Virus Worse in Spain & Italy?

    Quote Originally Posted by J R Hartley View Post
    It only doesn’t look as bad here yet because we haven’t ramped up testing. Thanks to the dithering by Boris and his useless puppet of a scientific advisor Sir Patrick Herd Immunity Valance the UK will probably end up worse than both.

    It took a premier league football manager to contract the virus before this country started taking it serious ffs.
    Well the reason for that was explained in today's 5PM talk. Apparently the chemicals used to make the test are in high demand...

  27. #27

    Re: Why is this Virus Worse in Spain & Italy?

    The school holidays didn't help with lots of skiers descending on Northern Italy. That's largely been the cause of the spread throughout Europe.

  28. #28

    Re: Why is this Virus Worse in Spain & Italy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie View Post
    Yes. Last year I visited Moldova, Ukraine and Belarus - and which meant that I have visited every country in Europe.
    Belarus (aka White Russia) is meant to a very repressive state but the capital, Minsk, is clean, sophisticated and stylish (unlike the Couchsurfing host who was meant to accommodate me for the first night of my stay).
    I'd like to visit some of the ex soviet Block countries in the future. What was Moldova like? isn't it supposed to be the poorest country in Europe? Albania is a country i'd like to visit.

  29. #29

    Re: Why is this Virus Worse in Spain & Italy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Welshcake. View Post
    Well the reason for that was explained in today's 5PM talk. Apparently the chemicals used to make the test are in high demand...
    That’s been the party line since the Q and A’s started nearly 3 weeks ago.

    I mean, it’s not like we didn’t know this virus was about to descend on our country months ago.

    But hey ho, Herd Immunity and all that, we don’t need tests, let’s just kill off the elderly, they were going to die soon anyway and after all chemicals are expensive.

    And now today we hear that the Welsh NHS thought they had secured a large supply of tests but have been gazumped by the English NHS. Obviously English lives matter more.

    Add to that all around the country some front line NHS staff have still NOT been tested and haven’t all had PPE and mugs like you want to accept the disruption to the supply chain line they keep churning out every day.

    Do me a ****ing favour.

  30. #30

    Re: Why is this Virus Worse in Spain & Italy?

    "We may manage flu like viruses better via our DNA."

    What do you mean?

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