30 Ventilators

[Eric the Half a Bee]

And how come Labour suffered a monumental defeat in 2019?

If it was down to left wing policies then why didn't that happen before? Brexit was the ultimate decider. Lots had had enough of it. Remained voted Tory just to get it sorted. Corbyn dithered and was ineffective. He wasn't seen as a leader and rightly so. Some like Boris even if they aren't Tories.

It doesn't mean that left wing policies aren't supported. If anything, our public services will be even more valued and more left wing policies will need to be a part of the agenda. This government has already been adopting some. In the last few elections prior to 2019, when given a blind policy test (so asked to vote solely on policies without knowing who was promising what), Labour came out on top.

While others reject this notion, the media also have a part to play. Largely right wing and Tory supporting, they do influence people. I've heard far too many people believe blatant lies that are printed in the press and spread them as gospel. They hate being corrected as a rule and prefer keeping an opinion that is known to be bollocks. It's true to say this happens on all sides of the political spectrum, yet Tory papers print far more bullshit than left leaning papers, and that's a fact. We're not talking opinions, we're talking things that are are factual.

[Elwood Blues]

If it was down to left wing policies then why didn't that happen before? Brexit was the ultimate decider. Lots had had enough of it. Remained voted Tory just to get it sorted. Corbyn dithered and was ineffective. He wasn't seen as a leader and rightly so. Some like Boris even if they aren't Tories.

It doesn't mean that left wing policies aren't supported. If anything, our public services will be even more valued and more left wing policies will need to be a part of the agenda. This government has already been adopting some. In the last few elections prior to 2019, when given a blind policy test (so asked to vote solely on policies without knowing who was promising what), Labour came out on top.

While others reject this notion, the media also have a part to play. Largely right wing and Tory supporting, they do influence people. I've heard far too many people believe blatant lies that are printed in the press and spread them as gospel. They hate being corrected as a rule and prefer keeping an opinion that is known to be bollocks. It's true to say this happens on all sides of the political spectrum, yet Tory papers print far more bullshit than left leaning papers, and that's a fact. We're not talking opinions, we're talking things that are are factual.

I am not going to get into a long political debate now.

Just asking where is you evidence about the Tory papers talking rubbish being a 'fact'?

I 've seen rubbish spouted in all papers from the sun through to the mirror. In pretty well equal measure it seems to me. Perhaps you have evidence to prove me wrong.

Mind you it is better written rubbish in the Telegraph Independent and Guardian! ( can't see much of the Times beyond the firewall).

I've also seen good journalism in all papers.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

I am not going to get into a long political debate now.

Just asking where is you evidence about the Tory papers talking rubbish being a 'fact'?

I 've seen rubbish spouted in all papers from the sun through to the mirror. In pretty well equal measure it seems to me. Perhaps you have evidence to prove me wrong.

Mind you it is better written rubbish in the Telegraph Independent and Guardian! ( can't see much of the Times beyond the firewall).

I've also seen good journalism in all papers.

This country's press is ruled by the right wing and always has been

And most of it is utter bullshit

[Vindec]

This country's press is ruled by the right wing and always has been

And most of it is utter bullshit

There's a generalisation for everyone to read and digest as fact.

[Eric Cartman]

No institution can prepare for a situation like this. Its unprecedented

That is nonsense, supported by the fact that almost every government across the world doesn't in fact have plans to deal with a situation exactly like this. If it was physically impossible to plan for then they wouldn't bother. Stop with the hyperbole.

[Eric Cartman]

Did he? I thought that was the SNP

What do you mean?

[Elwood Blues]

That is nonsense, supported by the fact that almost every government across the world doesn't in fact have plans to deal with a situation exactly like this. If it was physically impossible to plan for then they wouldn't bother. Stop with the hyperbole.

Of course nations plan but as we have seen many countries are struggling to cope with the scale of the pandemic.

That doesn't of course make it right, and most countries will have lessons to learn.

New lessons will have been learnt and if (God forbid) it ever happens again countries will (or should be) better prepared.

Plans can and do go wrong and/or prove inadequate

Based on the lessons learnt from the first world war France built the Maginot line to stop a German invasion

That went well.

[Feedback]

That is nonsense, supported by the fact that almost every government across the world doesn't in fact have plans to deal with a situation exactly like this. If it was physically impossible to plan for then they wouldn't bother. Stop with the hyperbole.

Which country planned for this to the extent the planning and execution thereof can be seen as a success?

[Eric Cartman]

Which country planned for this to the extent the planning and execution thereof can be seen as a success?

A success? You are moving the goalposts completely. You can't predict the when or how but I am yet to see any reason why we could maintain adequate stockpiles of protective equipment for medical staff, other than the simple fact that the health service is currently living paycheck to paycheck.

[Eric Cartman]

Of course nations plan but as we have seen many countries are struggling to cope with the scale of the pandemic.

That doesn't of course make it right, and most countries will have lessons to learn.

New lessons will have been learnt and if (God forbid) it ever happens again countries will (or should be) better prepared.

Plans can and do go wrong and/or prove inadequate

Based on the lessons learnt from the first world war France built the Maginot line to stop a German invasion

That went well.

I hope that the tide of public opinion will have turned and people will have had their eyes opened. Maybe next election will be fought between a wide range of parties not just paying lip service to the NHS, the people I know who work in the NHS would rather have the equipment they need than be called heroes every day by desperate politicians.

[Dorcus]

And how come Labour suffered a monumental defeat in 2019?

Brexit fever

[Vindec]

Brexit fever

I suggest you re-read my post you quoted to remind yourself of the comment to which I was responding. BREXIT was part of Labour's defeat but the Corbyn affect and other factors were as well. If you really believe BREXIT was the sole reason for Labour's monumental defeat how did they respond? I'll tell you. Appoint the architect of that policy as their new leader. You really couldn't make it up

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

I am not going to get into a long political debate now.

Just asking where is you evidence about the Tory papers talking rubbish being a 'fact'?

I 've seen rubbish spouted in all papers from the sun through to the mirror. In pretty well equal measure it seems to me. Perhaps you have evidence to prove me wrong.

Mind you it is better written rubbish in the Telegraph Independent and Guardian! ( can't see much of the Times beyond the firewall).

I've also seen good journalism in all papers.

There's a generalisation for everyone to read and digest as fact.

How many liberal newspapers do we have in the uk ?

How many tory owned and tory led papers do we have ?

I will leave that with you to ponder

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

I am not going to get into a long political debate now.

Just asking where is you evidence about the Tory papers talking rubbish being a 'fact'?

I 've seen rubbish spouted in all papers from the sun through to the mirror. In pretty well equal measure it seems to me. Perhaps you have evidence to prove me wrong.

Mind you it is better written rubbish in the Telegraph Independent and Guardian! ( can't see much of the Times beyond the firewall).

I've also seen good journalism in all papers.

Of course nations plan but as we have seen many countries are struggling to cope with the scale of the pandemic.

That doesn't of course make it right, and most countries will have lessons to learn.

New lessons will have been learnt and if (God forbid) it ever happens again countries will (or should be) better prepared.

Plans can and do go wrong and/or prove inadequate

Based on the lessons learnt from the first world war France built the Maginot line to stop a German invasion

That went well.

Please dont try and defend the tory governments handling of this virus

They were warned three months ago to get tough and they pounced about , leaving the NHS which they underfunded to pick up the shit

I mean honestly

[Croesy Blue]

The papers in this country are mostly Tory because they’ve said they won’t act on the levenson enquiry. If you don’t believe that you’re an idiot.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

I am not going to get into a long political debate now.

Just asking where is you evidence about the Tory papers talking rubbish being a 'fact'?

I 've seen rubbish spouted in all papers from the sun through to the mirror. In pretty well equal measure it seems to me. Perhaps you have evidence to prove me wrong.

Mind you it is better written rubbish in the Telegraph Independent and Guardian! ( can't see much of the Times beyond the firewall).

I've also seen good journalism in all papers.

I hope that the tide of public opinion will have turned and people will have had their eyes opened. Maybe next election will be fought between a wide range of parties not just paying lip service to the NHS, the people I know who work in the NHS would rather have the equipment they need than be called heroes every day by desperate politicians.

Let's get all the tory voters who voted for the decimation of the NHS to clap the nurses going into work , I am sure the nurses will be grateful

[Elwood Blues]

A success? You are moving the goalposts completely. You can't predict the when or how but I a⁹m yet to see any reason why we could maintain adequate stockpiles of protective equipment for medical staff, other than the simple fact that the health service is currently living paycheck to paycheck.

The Government and its experts have said that there were adequate stocks and the problem was a logistical one of distributing the stuff.

Whether this is true or not is something we probably won't know until the inevitable public enquiry

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

I am not going to get into a long political debate now.

Just asking where is you evidence about the Tory papers talking rubbish being a 'fact'?

I 've seen rubbish spouted in all papers from the sun through to the mirror. In pretty well equal measure it seems to me. Perhaps you have evidence to prove me wrong.

Mind you it is better written rubbish in the Telegraph Independent and Guardian! ( can't see much of the Times beyond the firewall).

I've also seen good journalism in all papers.

The Government and its experts have said that there were adequate stocks and the problem was a logistical one of distributing the stuff.

Whether this is true or not is something we probably won't know until the inevitable public enquiry

Well it's clearly not true , is it ?

A public enquiry from boris johnson and his tory mates into how they ****ed up ?

I think not

[Eric the Half a Bee]

I am not going to get into a long political debate now.

Just asking where is you evidence about the Tory papers talking rubbish being a 'fact'?

I 've seen rubbish spouted in all papers from the sun through to the mirror. In pretty well equal measure it seems to me. Perhaps you have evidence to prove me wrong.

https://www.pressgazette.co.uk/fake-...ewspapers-was/

Just as one example. I haven't seen one for a couple of years but in a comparison of nationals, the Mail, Sun and Express were by far the worst newspapers for intentionally printing lies and being deliberately misleading, where they were forced to print apologies. The Guardian and Mirror were rarely guilty of this.

There is, of course, a difference between printing nonsense, particularly in opinion pieces, and deliberate lies. All papers have bullshit in them. However, surely there has to be a case that the media shouldn't be allowed to do print something deliberately misleading. One lie as a front page headline can cause much damage. The apology that follows does little to correct that, hence papers (mainly the 3 I've mentioned) are happy to cause that damage. In fairness, the Mail isn't quite as bad now the evil Paul Dacre has gone. A man whose falling out with David Cameron was so bitter that he instructed his staff to say whatever they liked to ensure Brexit happened and Cameron was gone from office.

[Vindec]

Well it's clearly not true , is it ?

A public enquiry from boris johnson and his tory mates into how they ****ed up ?

I think not

Inevitably there will be several Inquiries. There will be a Parliamentary Inquiry by the House of Commons Health Select Committee as well as inquiries by the WHO, EU and Uncle Tom Cobly. Inevitably also will be Public Inquiry as the government could hardly refuse one as the clamour for one will be enormous not least so lessons can be learned as this is highly unlikely to be the last pandemic especially if the Chinese continue to allow the markets in live animals where this current one was thought to have originated.

However, suggesting, if that is what you are implying, that a diagnostic industry and reserve hospitals and thousands of spare equipment is maintained with no purpose in between pandemics is pure fantasy. Your mindset of everything to do with Labour is good and Tory bad and your sweeping generalisations shows that you are unable to see two sides of an argument. There is good and bad in all political parties.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Inevitably there will be several Inquiries. There will be a Parliamentary Inquiry by the House of Commons Health Select Committee as well as inquiries by the WHO, EU and Uncle Tom Cobly. Inevitably also will be Public Inquiry as the government could hardly refuse one as the clamour for one will be enormous not least so lessons can be learned as this is highly unlikely to be the last pandemic especially if the Chinese continue to allow the markets in live animals where this current one was thought to have originated.

However, suggesting, if that is what you are implying, that a diagnostic industry and reserve hospitals and thousands of spare equipment is maintained with no purpose in between pandemics is pure fantasy. Your mindset of everything to do with Labour is good and Tory bad and your sweeping generalisations shows that you are unable to see two sides of an argument. There is good and bad in all political parties.

How long did it take for a public enquiry into Hillsborough?

The tories still havnt housed those left homeless by the grenfell disaster , despite javid saying he would sort it out

You are damn right I think the tories are bad news and it will come to pass , wether or not this country wakes up is another matter , the tories have been found badly out of traction with this pandemic , they were warned and sat on their arses

Still waiting for a list of all these left wing newspapers

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

https://www.pressgazette.co.uk/fake-...ewspapers-was/

Just as one example. I haven't seen one for a couple of years but in a comparison of nationals, the Mail, Sun and Express were by far the worst newspapers for intentionally printing lies and being deliberately misleading, where they were forced to print apologies. The Guardian and Mirror were rarely guilty of this.

There is, of course, a difference between printing nonsense, particularly in opinion pieces, and deliberate lies. All papers have bullshit in them. However, surely there has to be a case that the media shouldn't be allowed to do print something deliberately misleading. One lie as a front page headline can cause much damage. The apology that follows does little to correct that, hence papers (mainly the 3 I've mentioned) are happy to cause that damage. In fairness, the Mail isn't quite as bad now the evil Paul Dacre has gone. A man whose falling out with David Cameron was so bitter that he instructed his staff to say whatever they liked to ensure Brexit happened and Cameron was gone from office.

Looks like he does have evidence to prove you wrong

[Feedback]

A success? You are moving the goalposts completely. You can't predict the when or how but I am yet to see any reason why we could maintain adequate stockpiles of protective equipment for medical staff, other than the simple fact that the health service is currently living paycheck to paycheck.

You've answered your own question. Not one country successfully planned for this, despite governments across the world being from right across the political spectrum.

This isnt a left v right issue. If it was, then Sweden wouldnt be up shit creek

[insider]

This isnt a left v right issue. If it was, then Sweden wouldnt be up shit creek

You say it isn't a left v right issue then mention a country with a left leaning government is up shit creek.
Again Brilliant.

[Vindec]

How long did it take for a public enquiry into Hillsborough?

The tories still havnt housed those left homeless by the grenfell disaster , despite javid saying he would sort it out

You are damn right I think the tories are bad news and it will come to pass , wether or not this country wakes up is another matter , the tories have been found badly out of traction with this pandemic , they were warned and sat on their arses

Still waiting for a list of all these left wing newspapers

Don't be ridiculous. Your posts are getting more bizarre by the hour. You ask about Hillsborough. It took a Tory government to hold an Inquiry into Hillsborough. There have been 9 Public Inquiries since 2010 under the Inquiries Act 2005. If Labour are so great why didn't they hold one for Hillsborough when in power. There are vearios papers online to verify this fact.

You don't seem to get it. COVID 19 should not be politicised at this time. There's plenty of time for that later. Even your darling Labour Party agree. Your generalisations are ridiculous as you are showing yourself up as a person who is unable to see both sides of an argument. It's not a question of Tory bad, Labour good. It's much more important than that.

I don't understand your reference to left wing newspapers as that has nothing to do with any post I made. But while we are at it I have raised several questions of you on this thread which have been ignored. Perhaps we should leave it there but I humbly suggest you try and hold fire with your sweeping and ridiculous unsubstantiated generalisations until you can back up your arguments with facts which cannot be fully known until this COVID episode is over. Just for your information House of Commons Select Committee Inquiries with representatives of all parties are not in the gift of the government. The Committee itself decides.