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Thread: Lives vs. livelihoods & a gutted UK economy

  1. #26

    Re: Lives vs. livelihoods & a gutted UK economy

    Quote Originally Posted by trampie09 View Post
    Reading that article I would say the Conservative and Unionist party is a lot worse for VAT charges than Labour.
    I'm all for uping taxes just not VAT as it's a tax on the poor, in theory you would expect old Labour to have the same thoughts on the topic as me but Labour has been overrun by Red Tories so who knows what they think these days.
    I agree with this. The 20% rate was supposedly a temporary austerity measure, but when they announced the "ending" of austerity they forgot to put the VAT rate back to 17.5%!

  2. #27

    Re: Lives vs. livelihoods & a gutted UK economy

    Quote Originally Posted by Wales-Bales View Post
    I agree with this. The 20% rate was supposedly a temporary austerity measure, but when they announced the "ending" of austerity they forgot to put the VAT rate back to 17.5%!
    Yes very noticeable, but folk accepted it , better than personal tax rise I suppose , with vat you got a choice to not buy so much , and avoid it ?

  3. #28

    Re: Lives vs. livelihoods & a gutted UK economy

    Quote Originally Posted by CardiffIrish2 View Post
    I think you should lead by example and get out to work.

    That will show those globalists, leftists, remainers, Democrats etc etc etc what a fine example of libertarianism you are eh?

    Of course if you end up coughing your guts up on a ventilator it will all have been worth it in the name of freedom and free speech.
    Disgusting post ,shame on you .

  4. #29

    Re: Lives vs. livelihoods & a gutted UK economy

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    Yes very noticeable, but folk accepted it , better than personal tax rise I suppose , with vat you got a choice to not buy so much , and avoid it ?
    That's just it, it is/was on everyday products and since the poor don't have enough money to save then lots of their income when spent has a VAT charge, for richer people not as much of their income ends up having VAT on it, for starters they don't spend all their money.
    That's why you will often see VAT described as a tax on the poor, if I remember Labour once had the idea of lower rates of VAT for everyday items and higher rates of VAT for luxury items.

  5. #30

    Re: Lives vs. livelihoods & a gutted UK economy

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    Disgusting post ,shame on you .
    Before you go on your faux outrage crusade did I wish WB poor health?

    He’s constantly harping on about getting the economy back up and running, I merely pointed out if he feels so strongly about it he should get out there but be mindful of the consequences

    So with all due respect your attempt at screaming outage because your poor hero has been given some advice has made you look a tad dim.

  6. #31

    Re: Lives vs. livelihoods & a gutted UK economy

    Quote Originally Posted by CardiffIrish2 View Post
    Before you go on your faux outrage crusade did I wish WB poor health?

    He’s constantly harping on about getting the economy back up and running, I merely pointed out if he feels so strongly about it he should get out there but be mindful of the consequences

    So with all due respect your attempt at screaming outage because your poor hero has been given some advice has made you look a tad dim.
    Your words below :

    "
    Of course if you end up coughing your guts up on a ventilator it will all have been worth it*"

  7. #32

    Re: Lives vs. livelihoods & a gutted UK economy

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    Your words below :

    "
    Of course if you end up coughing your guts up on a ventilator it will all have been worth it*"
    You’ve deliberately missed out the last few words of my sentence.

    Only you can answer that and lord knows why.

  8. #33

    Re: Lives vs. livelihoods & a gutted UK economy

    The UK COVID-19 hospital death rate rebounded higher to 823 over the last day following a recent dip.

    Extending the restrictions for just three weeks appeared to offer many false hope that some will be lifted soon after that end date. I don't blame the government for playing that game but I sense a lot of the current goodwill will take a swan dive once boiling hot days in June, July and August arrive with people stuck at home sweating bullets and are sick of the sight of one another.

    In 2014 the government could call upon a circa 45K total of army Reserve and Regular Reservist Soldiers. What their strength is today is likely similar. I suppose they will be deployed to aid police should widespread public disorder become commonplace.

    September time would be when the COVID-19 second wave would hit, if indeed there is a second wave, and I imagine a greater acceptance of lockdown measures would return.

  9. #34

    Re: Lives vs. livelihoods & a gutted UK economy

    Quote Originally Posted by Organ Morgan. View Post
    I looked at the official stats last week for British deaths with seasonal flu strains during the past five years. They varied from a low 1,400+ in one year to 27K in another for an average over that span of 17K per annum.

    I don't doubt that if the measures we have is situ today to battle COVID-19 had been adopted in those years prior then that 17K average would have been considerably lower. I acknowledge the British economy would have become a hollowed out wreck and consequently the vast majority of us would only be able to afford the most basic necessities and that trips to pubs, football matches and much more besides would already be a distant memory but nevertheless worthwhile to save British lives.

    The ordinary common cold, another coronavirus, which there remains no vaccine for, can prove deadly for those with advanced COPD and other lung diseases. Now that most citizens accept the principle that people's health outweigh economic concerns then it would criminal should the government lift restrictions before vaccines are available for all coronaviruses.

    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post
    How come you're hiding on the politics forum, Organ? Did your brief outing on the main board leave you shaken?

    So the worst flu year in the last five years was 27,000 deaths. That's in a year. Covid-19 has killed 16,000 in less than six weeks (excluding the many who have died in care homes).

    Concentrating on the death rate was a good tactic earlier - not so much now.
    This twitter thread about cherrypicking statistics that are not comparable to make them seem comparable, reminded me of what Organ did here, comparing a bad entire year of flu deaths to a few weeks of covid deaths (unfinished) to downplay how serious it is.



  10. #35

    Re: Lives vs. livelihoods & a gutted UK economy

    759 new hospital deaths in the UK.

    The comments made by the WHO boss (below) caught my attention. The last line is going to be infinitely easier to say than done.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-52377357

    At the World Health Organization's briefing, its head has warned that although epidemics in Western Europe "appear to be stable or declining", there are still "worrying upward trends in Africa, Central and South America, and Eastern Europe".

    "Make no mistake - we have a long way to go, this virus will be with us for a long time," director-general Dr Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus said.

    He said that while people are "understandably frustrated" with stay-at-home orders, "one of the greatest dangers we face now is complacency".

    "The world will not and cannot go back to the way things were," Dr Tedros added. "There must be a new normal, a world that's healthier, safer and better prepared."

  11. #36

    Re: Lives vs. livelihoods & a gutted UK economy

    Quote Originally Posted by Organ Morgan. View Post
    759 new hospital deaths in the UK.

    The comments made by the WHO boss (below) caught my attention. The last line is going to be infinitely easier to say than done.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-52377357

    At the World Health Organization's briefing, its head has warned that although epidemics in Western Europe "appear to be stable or declining", there are still "worrying upward trends in Africa, Central and South America, and Eastern Europe".

    "Make no mistake - we have a long way to go, this virus will be with us for a long time," director-general Dr Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus said.

    He said that while people are "understandably frustrated" with stay-at-home orders, "one of the greatest dangers we face now is complacency".

    "The world will not and cannot go back to the way things were," Dr Tedros added. "There must be a new normal, a world that's healthier, safer and better prepared."
    What are your views on the WHO Org? Some of your acolytes seem a bit lukewarm. Is this a sign of the thawing that the organisation set up to have some guidance over world health is actually doing that?

  12. #37

    Re: Lives vs. livelihoods & a gutted UK economy

    Cyril, I wish to take this opportunity to implore you to stay at home as much as you possibly can. Whenever your resolve may weaken slightly then remind yourself you're helping to save British lives which is an incredibly noble cause. Please put any concerns about the country's, along with you and yours, economic well being to the back of your mind by continuing to place your unshakeable faith in our government.

  13. #38

    Re: Lives vs. livelihoods & a gutted UK economy

    Quote Originally Posted by Organ Morgan. View Post
    Cyril, I wish to take this opportunity to implore you to stay at home as much as you possibly can. Whenever your resolve may weaken slightly then remind yourself you're helping to save British lives which is an incredibly noble cause. Please put any concerns about the country's, along with you and yours, economic well being to the back of your mind by continuing to place your unshakeable faith in our government.
    Interesting take on the question I asked about your views on the WHO. I have to say though that whenever my mental well-being wavers as a consequence of the circumstances we are in I remind myself of the great Plandemic of 2015 and any tension eases right away as the tears run down my cheeks.

  14. #39

    Re: Lives vs. livelihoods & a gutted UK economy

    I don't know much about the WHO other than it's a part of the United Nations. Its boss' reported remarks struck me as conditioning for what's ahead. I'd place Whitty's, a UK .gov medical adviser, comments in the same category as no ministers to my knowledge have questioned his suggestion that measures will not be lifted "for at least the rest of the year."

    Being a keen reader of my posts here you will know already that I'm an advocate for much stronger rules and regulations and that I'd welcome the sight of army personnel carriers trundling down residential streets to quell social unrest wherever it may arise should the government feel it necessary to deploy them.

    Reassuring that you're bearing up there. That's the ticket.

    The stupendously bad, and much worse than anticipated, UK Manufacturing and Services PMI data released earlier indicate Blighty's economic woes are dire today and set to become a great deal worse by this year's end.

    Our resolve to save British lives whatever the economic fallout may entail could be severely tested by then. But I have confidence that you will remain an ardent supporter of the path that has been chosen.

  15. #40

    Re: Lives vs. livelihoods & a gutted UK economy

    Quote Originally Posted by Organ Morgan. View Post
    I don't know much about the WHO other than it's a part of the United Nations. Its boss' reported remarks struck me as conditioning for what's ahead. I'd place Whitty's, a UK .gov medical adviser, comments in the same category as no ministers to my knowledge have questioned his suggestion that measures will not be lifted "for at least the rest of the year."

    Being a keen reader of my posts here you will know already that I'm an advocate for much stronger rules and regulations and that I'd welcome the sight of army personnel carriers trundling down residential streets to quell social unrest wherever it may arise should the government feel it necessary to deploy them.

    Reassuring that you're bearing up there. That's the ticket.

    The stupendously bad, and much worse than anticipated, UK Manufacturing and Services PMI data released earlier indicate Blighty's economic woes are dire today and set to become a great deal worse by this year's end.

    Our resolve to save British lives whatever the economic fallout may entail could be severely tested by then. But I have confidence that you will remain an ardent supporter of the path that has been chosen.
    I know your desire to see yourself as special and different from the herd takes you into some interesting places to try and achieve this.

    In this instance it's like nobody but you, not the governments of the world be they autocratic or democratic, capitalist or communist, 1st world or 3rd, can see the economic consequences of the measures being put in place.

    It may come as a shock to you that almost everyone can see that there will need to be a point where economic and social considerations outweigh a residual health risk. I like a good number of those people would rather one period of pain rather than waves where we open up only to move backwards again.

    Most people would see that carrying on in the way we were and a manner that you have championed because its just like flu after all would have been catastrophic for both the nations's health and its wealth compared to the alternative course of action belatedly chosen. Most people realise now that not locking down sooner increased the health problem and extended the period of economic uncertainty. But I keep on forgetting.....you're not most people are you!

  16. #41

    Re: Lives vs. livelihoods & a gutted UK economy

    I see that some misgivings are creeping in at your end, Cyril. A small but critical shift has occurred at Maison Evans. You also appear to be reverting to the bitter persona of a week or two back.

    Returning to those UK economic numbers, Manufacturing PMI had previously been at 48, was forecast to drop to 42 and came in at 32. Services PMI had previously been at 34, was forecast to drop to 28 and came in at a stunning 12. The ferocity of the slump surpassed that thought imaginable by even the most pessimistic economists whose predictions were surveyed. French and German equivalent numbers were similarly horrible and another 4.5 million Yanks made new unemployment claims during the past week.

    We appear to be in an unannounced race to learn which First World country's population become destitute first.

  17. #42

    Re: Lives vs. livelihoods & a gutted UK economy

    Quote Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays View Post
    I know your desire to see yourself as special and different from the herd takes you into some interesting places to try and achieve this.

    In this instance it's like nobody but you, not the governments of the world be they autocratic or democratic, capitalist or communist, 1st world or 3rd, can see the economic consequences of the measures being put in place.

    It may come as a shock to you that almost everyone can see that there will need to be a point where economic and social considerations outweigh a residual health risk. I like a good number of those people would rather one period of pain rather than waves where we open up only to move backwards again.

    Most people would see that carrying on in the way we were and a manner that you have championed because its just like flu after all would have been catastrophic for both the nations's health and its wealth compared to the alternative course of action belatedly chosen. Most people realise now that not locking down sooner increased the health problem and extended the period of economic uncertainty. But I keep on forgetting.....you're not most people are you!
    Great reply, this proves your point:

    https://mol.im/a/8249709

    Very worrying and sad to see so many deaths and cases surrounding that event

  18. #43

    Re: Lives vs. livelihoods & a gutted UK economy

    I keep viewing news reports of an increasing number of people visiting parks and more traffic on the roads whenever the sun appears and temperatures rise. The government need to act by throwing increased resources at enforcing compliance otherwise more British people will lose their lives than otherwise would.

    It was reported a few weeks back that Greater Manchester Police had broken up hundreds of house parties. They learned of them because good citizens had reported those highly dangerous gatherings to them. We need a widely advertised free national phone hotline manned by thousands to ensure no caller is placed on hold. Promoting a telltale culture would alarm wishy-washy liberal types who concern themselves with civil liberties and all that bollocks but I'm positive a large majority of the rest of us would welcome the introduction of a service like that.

    Perhaps a system which offers small financial rewards for providing accurate tips that result in fines being issued would prove to be a valuable extra inducement?

    In the first video below from two states in the USA one official encourages people to film (and report) those breaking social distancing rules.

    Is there anyone else around here who would also welcome a new 'grassing' paradigm?





  19. #44

    Re: Lives vs. livelihoods & a gutted UK economy

    Quote Originally Posted by Organ Morgan. View Post
    I keep viewing news reports of an increasing number of people visiting parks and more traffic on the roads whenever the sun appears and temperatures rise. The government need to act by throwing increased resources at enforcing compliance otherwise more British people will lose their lives than otherwise would.

    It was reported a few weeks back that Greater Manchester Police had broken up hundreds of house parties. They learned of them because good citizens had reported those highly dangerous gatherings to them. We need a widely advertised free national phone hotline manned by thousands to ensure no caller is placed on hold. Promoting a telltale culture would alarm wishy-washy liberal types who concern themselves with civil liberties and all that bollocks but I'm positive a large majority of the rest of us would welcome the introduction of a service like that.

    Perhaps a system which offers small financial rewards for providing accurate tips that result in fines being issued would prove to be a valuable extra inducement?

    In the first video below from two states in the USA one official encourages people to film (and report) those breaking social distancing rules.

    Is there anyone else around here who would also welcome a new 'grassing' paradigm?




    Let's do it , let's rat out the thankless uncaring and profit from it .

  20. #45

    Re: Lives vs. livelihoods & a gutted UK economy

    Yes, having neighbours become the eyes of the state is the way forward to inhibit those who don't care about breaching rules. Creating an easy way to report our suspicions, I reckon, would soon see an upsurge of curtain twitching nationwide. It would foster an air of distrust and paranoia which would splinter communities further but that would be a small price to pay to save British lives.

    From a moral perspective I'd be a little uneasy about financially incentivising making reports as so many of life's rogues and charlatans would be tempted to use it as a money making opportunity by exaggerating what they had claimed to witness. I can think of quite a few characters around here who fit that profile. I don't doubt the likes of Lardy and Cyril would spend most of their waking hours snitching down the blower.

  21. #46

    Re: Lives vs. livelihoods & a gutted UK economy

    Organ, you're slowly morphing into walesbales. Just giving you the heads up so you can put the handbrake on.

    #lardyandcyril

  22. #47

    Re: Lives vs. livelihoods & a gutted UK economy

    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post
    Organ, you're slowly morphing into walesbales. Just giving you the heads up so you can put the handbrake on.

    #lardyandcyril
    Spending 20 hours a day in the BilderBunker in unnatural UV light with only Youtube and 4Chan for company does seem to be taking a bit of a toll, fair play!

  23. #48

    Re: Lives vs. livelihoods & a gutted UK economy

    Quote Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays View Post
    Spending 20 hours a day in the BilderBunker in unnatural UV light with only Youtube and 4Chan for company does seem to be taking a bit of a toll, fair play!
    I gave you fair warning very recently that if you cared to be a bitter individual going forward then I'd blast you with both barrels just for fun.

    If you're suffering from 'cabin fever' then I couldn't give a flying feck. Adopt a stoic mindset instead of being a weakling.

  24. #49

    Re: Lives vs. livelihoods & a gutted UK economy

    "I don't doubt the likes of Lardy and Cyril would spend most of their waking hours snitching down the blower."


    Just the one barrel next time, Mr Organ Sir, that was too brutal!

  25. #50

    Re: Lives vs. livelihoods & a gutted UK economy

    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post
    "I don't doubt the likes of Lardy and Cyril would spend most of their waking hours snitching down the blower."


    Just the one barrel next time, Mr Organ Sir, that was too brutal!
    It's almost a belief that those on the receiving end of these brutal punishment beatings have the same gossamer-like skin as those dishing it out!

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