Boris is back phew

[Vindec]

Who are the "hard left Labour supporters" on here?

You only have to read the political threads to work that out for yourself. I also think you should read my definition of "hard left" in my previous post which you clearly have not read.

[trampie09]

What posters are hard left Labour supporters on here Vindec ?

[Eric Cartman]

Ah! It's all the Conservative Party's fault. It took me 28 years as a card carrying member of the Labour Party and Union member to try and see both sides of a political argument. Above someone asked how I would describe "hard left". What I meant in the context in which it was written, was people on here who are unable to see only good in Labour and bad in Tory. Not one of these has thought that the government has done reasonably well with their furlough arrangements and providing support to the many workers who benefit; or taking swift action is building the Nightingale hospitals; sorting out the logistics of equipment delivery and maintaining capacity in NHS hospitals. Of course mistakes have been made with testing, the lockdown timing and PPE but it's very easy to be critical in hindsight.

I agree with some of the comments that Johnson is winging it and does not inspire confidence but that's another story.

Who are you talking about specifically?

[Eric Cartman]

NHS procurement managers seem to be getting an easy ride for some reason.

And private care providers. Long list of people/orgs who were completely unprepared and fingers crossed an enquiry will draw that out.

[delmbox]

He's just had a baby so he'll be off again, thread's over lads

[tell it like it is]

And private care providers. Long list of people/orgs who were completely unprepared and fingers crossed an enquiry will draw that out.

Agreed.

I find it odd people are ranting about the government re PPE and care homes when 84% are privately owned.

I think there needs to be greater regulation around care homes but safety of staff and residents is entirely in the domain of care home managers and owners.

[the other bob wilson]

What is vague about underlying health conditions They have all ben pretty well laid out in recent months

I have a couple as I am painfully aware

My wife has several.

I have atrial fibrillation and about six weeks ago the AF forum I use put out a statement saying that they had sought the best advice and had been told that AF was not something that would put you in the most vulnerable category. Therefore, as a sixty four year old who had received nothing from NHS Wales to inform that I was one of the 1.5 million most at risk, I assumed I did not need to strictly self isolate for twelve weeks and lived my life accordingly.

However, then we got to hear of the Welsh Government's schoolboy error whereby letters to 13,000 of those categorised most vulnerable had gone to the wrong address. I made further enquiries and learned that most of the 13,000 were people with underlying conditions rather than those who were seventy plus and there were a large number of them who had moved "recently" - I moved up here two years ago in March, which I suppose may qualify as recently. Therefore, I again spent a week or so not sure whether I should really be staying in continuously and then again assumed that I should carry on as I was when no letter arrived.

I'm still checking on that AF forum and there are many in a similar position to me in that they are under 70 and have AF, but have not been rated most vulnerable, but there are also messages from other AF sufferers, including a forty one year with no other underlying conditions, saying that they have been informed that they need to be in full lockdown for twelve weeks - so, I'm in a position whereby I'm assuming I'm free to make essential journeys for food and take an exercise period every day, but have the feeling that this might not be the case if I lived in another part of the country, that cannot be right.

[Vindec]

Agreed.

I find it odd people are ranting about the government re PPE and care homes when 84% are privately owned.

I think there needs to be greater regulation around care homes but safety of staff and residents is entirely in the domain of care home managers and owners.

Yep. One of the main lessons to be learned from this crisis is that residential and community care needs to be completely reorganised. The problem is that care home fees will probably rise exponentially and we can forget about government support because it will be broke.

[tell it like it is]

Err on the side of caution then and take good care of yourself.

Problem is, I see people breaking lockdown more and more in greater numbers - more cars on road, non-essential work being done by neighbours etc.

All you can do is make sure you're ok.

[the other bob wilson]

You only have to read the political threads to work that out for yourself. I also think you should read my definition of "hard left" in my previous post which you clearly have not read.

I have and I'm none the wiser. What I see on here are a lot of posters, including myself, who are anti the Conservative party and the way the Government have handled this crisis, but it doesn't automatically follow that they are "hard left Labour" - I would class myself as on the left, but certainly not hard left and I cannot see Labour getting my vote in the next Assembly elections as things stand.

[tell it like it is]

Yep. One of the main lessons to be learned from this crisis is that residential and community care needs to be completely reorganised. The problem is that care home fees will probably rise exponentially and we can forget about government support because it will be broke.

Care home fees are certainly one thing needs addressing - including addon fees.

When my dad died, mum and I bagged up his old clothes etc - we took property we wanted to keep, told staff they could give rest to charity, some to named residents who dad wanted to have certain stuff. Staff were great.

Two weeks later, mum gets a £160 bill for "removing items left behind". It turned out, having gone over the accounts for mum that the care home had overcharged and owed mum money. Took threats of going to small claims court for them to eventually pay up.

[Hilts]

All Sturgeon is doing is asserting her independence from England to kid the Scottish voters that she is the person who can run things. But in reality she relies on the experts in the NHS as much as Boris and Co and by announcing things early she is merely playing politics in a situation that deserves better.

On a separate point and as an outside observer who doesn't live in Wales it seems incredulous that there are so many hard left Labour supporters on here. What has the Labour Party done for Wales (not just Cardiff) post war?

By your definitions I presume you accept you are hard right.

Only see the good of the Tories and as above Labour have done feck all?

[lisvaneblue]

I have atrial fibrillation and about six weeks ago the AF forum I use put out a statement saying that they had sought the best advice and had been told that AF was not something that would put you in the most vulnerable category. Therefore, as a sixty four year old who had received nothing from NHS Wales to inform that I was one of the 1.5 million most at risk, I assumed I did not need to strictly self isolate for twelve weeks and lived my life accordingly.

However, then we got to hear of the Welsh Government's schoolboy error whereby letters to 13,000 of those categorised most vulnerable had gone to the wrong address. I made further enquiries and learned that most of the 13,000 were people with underlying conditions rather than those who were seventy plus and there were a large number of them who had moved "recently" - I moved up here two years ago in March, which I suppose may qualify as recently. Therefore, I again spent a week or so not sure whether I should really be staying in continuously and then again assumed that I should carry on as I was when no letter arrived.

I'm still checking on that AF forum and there are many in a similar position to me in that they are under 70 and have AF, but have not been rated most vulnerable, but there are also messages from other AF sufferers, including a forty one year with no other underlying conditions, saying that they have been informed that they need to be in full lockdown for twelve weeks - so, I'm in a position whereby I'm assuming I'm free to make essential journeys for food and take an exercise period every day, but have the feeling that this might not be the case if I lived in another part of the country, that cannot be right.

My wife age 74 with AF and cardiomyopathy has heard nothing.

[Vindec]

By your definitions I presume you accept you are hard right.

Only see the good of the Tories and as above Labour have done feck all?

My definition in the context it was written is that those who suggest everything to do with the Tories is bad and Labour good with a tendency to only criticise and not recognise the good things such a paying 80% of workers wages, the Nightingale hospitals as a contingency if things get worse and sorting out the logistics which has been difficult rising from normal deliveries of 500 establishments to 58000. If you can be bothered to go back through this thread I have been rather more balanced criticising the government for delaying the lockdown, on PPE and late on testing.

How is that hard right? I make up my own mind and not vote in the way I always have or vote the same way as my parents.

[Vindec]

I have atrial fibrillation and about six weeks ago the AF forum I use put out a statement saying that they had sought the best advice and had been told that AF was not something that would put you in the most vulnerable category. Therefore, as a sixty four year old who had received nothing from NHS Wales to inform that I was one of the 1.5 million most at risk, I assumed I did not need to strictly self isolate for twelve weeks and lived my life accordingly.

However, then we got to hear of the Welsh Government's schoolboy error whereby letters to 13,000 of those categorised most vulnerable had gone to the wrong address. I made further enquiries and learned that most of the 13,000 were people with underlying conditions rather than those who were seventy plus and there were a large number of them who had moved "recently" - I moved up here two years ago in March, which I suppose may qualify as recently. Therefore, I again spent a week or so not sure whether I should really be staying in continuously and then again assumed that I should carry on as I was when no letter arrived.

I'm still checking on that AF forum and there are many in a similar position to me in that they are under 70 and have AF, but have not been rated most vulnerable, but there are also messages from other AF sufferers, including a forty one year with no other underlying conditions, saying that they have been informed that they need to be in full lockdown for twelve weeks - so, I'm in a position whereby I'm assuming I'm free to make essential journeys for food and take an exercise period every day, but have the feeling that this might not be the case if I lived in another part of the country, that cannot be right.

If you fall into any of the categories set out in the letter below you should have been contacted:
https://www.gov.uk/government/public...-from-covid-19

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

My definition in the context it was written is that those who suggest everything to do with the Tories is bad and Labour good with a tendency to only criticise and not recognise the good things such a paying 80% of workers wages, the Nightingale hospitals as a contingency if things get worse and sorting out the logistics which has been difficult rising from normal deliveries of 500 establishments to 58000. If you can be bothered to go back through this thread I have been rather more balanced criticising the government for delaying the lockdown, on PPE and late on testing.

How is that hard right? I make up my own mind and not vote in the way I always have or vote the same way as my parents.

It's often said labour voters are like donkeys and just vote labour because their parents did

I think that's complete nonsense , I dont vote conservative because I cant stand them , it's got nothing to do with my parents but they were labour voters

I would like to ask a question . If people in south wales vote on the whole for a party they feel represents them , the labour party , they are seen as donkeys

In england , apart from inner london and the inner city seats of the provincial seats , the tories rule . There are odd exceptions like exeter or oxford east but generally wealthy areas in england and country , farming type areas vote tory

Are these people donkeys too or is there are different rule for them ?

[tell it like it is]

Anyone not making own mind up tends to be a sheep, Sludge.

What has happened under Labour in Wales? Is the NHS better? The Assembly for Wales has shown itself to be Cardiff centric and fvck the rest. Big decisions have been fudged, ie Brynglas.

Why then have Labour continually been voted in?

In younger days, I did vote Labour. I felt disengaged, views differed long before Blair.

[Vindec]

It's often said labour voters are like donkeys and just vote labour because their parents did

I think that's complete nonsense , I dont vote conservative because I cant stand them , it's got nothing to do with my parents but they were labour voters

I would like to ask a question . If people in south wales vote on the whole for a party they feel represents them , the labour party , they are seen as donkeys

In england , apart from inner london and the inner city seats of the provincial seats , the tories rule . There are odd exceptions like exeter or oxford east but generally wealthy areas in england and country , farming type areas vote tory

Are these people donkeys too or is there are different rule for them ?

When did I call anyone "donkeys". Your post is absurd. I suggest you read my earlier posts on this thread which have criticised the government in several respects. On the other hand your posts show absolutely zero balance.

[the other bob wilson]

If you fall into any of the categories set out in the letter below you should have been contacted:
https://www.gov.uk/government/public...-from-covid-19

Thanks for posting that, looking through that list, I'm not classed as most vulnerable.

[the other bob wilson]

I didn't see PMQs today, so apologies if I've got this wrong, but it seems Kier Starmer said that 27,241 people have "probably" died in all settings of COVID19 and, apparently, Dominic Raab did not dispute that figure when he replied. Therefore, while I take on board all of the stuff about how different recording methods make it difficult to compare death rates in countries exactly, if that figure is being taken as accurate and you then look at this page and see where we stand for things like total deaths and deaths per million of the population, I find it hard to work out how anyone can reasonably say we are doing well in this crisis (especially given that most of the countries above us are further into their outbreak than we are) even if it's agreed getting the Nightingale hospitals up and running so quickly and various financial aid packages are seen as successes.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

[Eric Cartman]

When did I call anyone "donkeys". Your post is absurd. I suggest you read my earlier posts on this thread which have criticised the government in several respects. On the other hand your posts show absolutely zero balance.

You haven't actually called anybody anything because you refuse to say who you are referring to.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Anyone not making own mind up tends to be a sheep, Sludge.

What has happened under Labour in Wales? Is the NHS better? The Assembly for Wales has shown itself to be Cardiff centric and fvck the rest. Big decisions have been fudged, ie Brynglas.

Why then have Labour continually been voted in?

In younger days, I did vote Labour. I felt disengaged, views differed long before Blair.

I couldn't stand blair but the NHS was in a far better state , he pumped loads of money in both in england and wales , the tories were totally against the formation of the Welsh assembly , now they are gagging to gain control

[Elwood Blues]

I have atrial fibrillation and about six weeks ago the AF forum I use put out a statement saying that they⁸ had sought the best advice and had been told that AF was not something that would put you in the most vulnerable category. Therefore, as a sixty four year old who had received nothing from NHS Wales to inform that I was one of the 1.5 million most at risk, I assumed I did not need to strictly self isolate for twelve weeks and lived my life accordingly.

However, then we got to hear of the Welsh Government's schoolboy error whereby letters to 13,000 of those categorised most vulnerable had gone to the wrong address. I made further enquiries and learned that most of the 13,000 were people with underlying conditions rather than those who were seventy plus and there were a large number of them who had moved "recently" - I moved up here two years ago in March, which I suppose may qualify as recently. Therefore, I again spent a week or so not sure whether I should really be staying in continuously and then again assumed that I should carry on as I was when no letter arrived.

I'm still checking on that AF forum and there are many in a similar position to me in that they are under 70 and have AF, but have not been rated most vulnerable, but there are also messages from other AF sufferers, including a forty one year with no other underlying conditions, saying that they have been informed that they need to be in full lockdown for twelve weeks - so, I'm in a position whereby I'm assuming I'm free to make essential journeys for food and take an exercise period every day, but have the feeling that this might not be the case if I lived in another part of the country, that cannot be right.

I too have AF (incidentally Bob where is this AF forum?). I don't think we are in the most vulnerable category. I am under 70 as well.

I have a shielding letter from NHS Wales which was addressed to me but I am 99% certain(so are our doctors )it is because I am a carer for my wife who nearly died twice in 2018 with severe chest infections and pneumonia (in fact I have gone through the "Does she want to be resuscitated" chat from the doctors three times accompanied by "as doctors we don't think it is a good idea")

On the last occasion we were basically told she would not last the night and there was no point putting here on a ventilator because she would never come of off it. It wasn't a pleasant few hours.

She us still here but while she does not have COPD her lungs have been weakened so she is regarded as having a severe respiratory problem She wouldn't survive the virus.

As her carer I am under the same restrictions as her.

I have gone out in the car but only to the doctors for my INR blood test at their insistence ( they do this outside the side door of the surgery so I don't leave the car)

The shielding letter is quite specific as to who qualifies. It does mention severe single organ disease which includes cardio but having seen my heart specialist just before the lockdown I know mine is not regarded as severe.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

When did I call anyone "donkeys". Your post is absurd. I suggest you read my earlier posts on this thread which have criticised the government in several respects. On the other hand your posts show absolutely zero balance.

My post is the truth

Labour voters are continually told by the right wing that they vote labour because their parents told them to or their parents did .....ie donkeys , that was what you were inferring .

I have pointed out that apart from the inner cities , vast swaths of england vote tory

Do they vote Tory because their parents did ? Or is their one rule for them and one rule for us ?

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

You haven't actually called anybody anything because you refuse to say who you are referring to.

Hes implying that labour voters vote as they always have or vote labour because their parents did

Hes suggesting he doesn't do that , he makes his own mind up . It just happens that means he votes conservative .

Those of us who dont use their mind like he says he does are clearly voting in the way our parents did . How he works that out I have no idea .