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Thread: Accents..

  1. #1

    Accents..

    Have always fascinated me. How can a difference of a few miles make such a difference. From Thornhill over to Caerphilly is only a few miles, yet the accent is so different. And why is it the further North you travel the accent seems to become 'more Broad, if that's indeed true or the correct description. Is the UK unique in this way or do others have experiences of Accent change in other countries? I find it all very interesting and would love to know what peoples theories/knowledge of accents are, or their experiences.

    Is accent determined by weather, geographic environment, industry, class etc. Interested to know peoples thoughts.

  2. #2

    Re: Accents..

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuerto View Post
    Have always fascinated me. How can a difference of a few miles make such a difference. From Thornhill over to Caerphilly is only a few miles, yet the accent is so different. And why is it the further North you travel the accent seems to become 'more Broad, if that's indeed true or the correct description. Is the UK unique in this way or do others have experiences of Accent change in other countries? I find it all very interesting and would love to know what peoples theories/knowledge of accents are, or their experiences.

    Is accent determined by weather, geographic environment, industry, class etc. Interested to know peoples thoughts.
    I think it can only be that you just are influenced as to how you speak by what you hear around you when you're growing up, but that doesn't answer why people up here can recognise I'm from Cardiff as soon as I say something and yet we're only talking about twenty miles. When I worked in Newport, it was easy to tell who the locals were because they spoke so differently to me despite the fact that this was a place it would only take me twenty odd minutes to drive to if I travelled early in the morning, it doesn't make sense!

  3. #3

    Re: Accents..

    I was a student in Bangor in the 80s, the locals had an odd accent, closer to a Cardiff accent than standard North Walian, with a bit of scouse mixed in, within a mile or so across the Menai Straight it was the full on Gog accent. I did a teaching practice in a school in Holywell where the accent was differrent again, a very nasal sort of North Walian/ Manchester. One kid sounded full on scouse, when I asked why I was told he’d moved from Connah’s Quay where they all spoke like that, it’s only 2 or 3 miles down the road. I guess it very localised all over.

  4. #4
    International jon1959's Avatar
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    Re: Accents..

    Interesting question.

    I have lived in England most of my life - and for the longest time in Sheffield. Soon after arriving I got a job on the buses and was working with people from all sorts of backgrounds - including Pakistani Muslim Sheffielders, West Indian Sheffielders, ex-student Sheffielders and a bunch of odd people from Barnsley!

    Barnsley is just 17 miles up the road, but although based on coal and ironworks (like Sheffield) it was always more insular. It had far fewer immigrants, far fewer non-native students and far fewer 'outsiders' moving in to work. Most of my mates who were born (or parents were born) in South Asia or the West Indies or the East Midlands sounded like locals to me after a while. Although 'local' was becoming different from two generations before. The lads and lasses from Barnsley sounded totally different - both accent and dialect words.

    I think it has to come down to insularity and exposure to outside influences.

  5. #5

    Re: Accents..

    The South Wales Valleys accent with its dulcet tones, soothing sounds and lyrical characteristics developed as a way to lull and placate the sheep.


  6. #6

    Re: Accents..

    Quote Originally Posted by jon1959 View Post
    Interesting question.

    I have lived in England most of my life - and for the longest time in Sheffield. Soon after arriving I got a job on the buses and was working with people from all sorts of backgrounds - including Pakistani Muslim Sheffielders, West Indian Sheffielders, ex-student Sheffielders and a bunch of odd people from Barnsley!

    Barnsley is just 17 miles up the road, but although based on coal and ironworks (like Sheffield) it was always more insular. It had far fewer immigrants, far fewer non-native students and far fewer 'outsiders' moving in to work. Most of my mates who were born (or parents were born) in South Asia or the West Indies or the East Midlands sounded like locals to me after a while. Although 'local' was becoming different from two generations before. The lads and lasses from Barnsley sounded totally different - both accent and dialect words.

    I think it has to come down to insularity and exposure to outside influences.
    Your final sentence makes total sense and is probably the reason why accents change so much within a matter of miles. Here's one;My mate moved down to cardiff at 14, his family were from Liverpool, his mum and dad sound as scouse as they come yet he lost his accent in a couple of years, his mum and dad sound the same to me whenever i meet them. Maybe the young pick things up quicker. The Sheffield accent is very distinctive, out of all the yorkshire dialects i'd say that it sounds the most Feminine and softer.

  7. #7
    International jon1959's Avatar
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    Re: Accents..

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuerto View Post
    Your final sentence makes total sense and is probably the reason why accents change so much within a matter of miles. Here's one;My mate moved down to cardiff at 14, his family were from Liverpool, his mum and dad sound as scouse as they come yet he lost his accent in a couple of years, his mum and dad sound the same to me whenever i meet them. Maybe the young pick things up quicker. The Sheffield accent is very distinctive, out of all the yorkshire dialects i'd say that it sounds the most Feminine and softer.
    That may be because we call everyone 'love' - man, woman or dog!

  8. #8
    First Team Heathblue's Avatar
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    Re: Accents..

    'Err Indoors' has lived in Wales longer than she lived in England but opening her gob to a stranger often gets the 1st line, "You're not Welsh" are you.

  9. #9

    Re: Accents..

    It's all in the use of language, isn't it? Starting 100s of years ago and then it evolved in different ways as travel increased and languages mixed. Occasionally I've switched on BBC Alba on the iplayer when they have Scottish football on and the Scots Gaelic accent seems a mix of Scottish (obviously), Scandinavian and north Welsh. With the greater influence of English over the years, perhaps elements of the accent have fallen away.

  10. #10

    Re: Accents..

    Quote Originally Posted by Jordi Culé View Post
    The South Wales Valleys accent with its dulcet tones, soothing sounds and lyrical characteristics developed as a way to lull and placate the sheep.

    The South Wales Valleys accent (especially when women are talking) always ends in a sympathetic tone, with a 'Ahhh' 'Love you' 'Never Mind' etc it's quite soothing to hear, although when they're shouting at their kids it's the stuff of tractor fuel!

  11. #11

    Re: Accents..

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuerto View Post
    Have always fascinated me. How can a difference of a few miles make such a difference. From Thornhill over to Caerphilly is only a few miles, yet the accent is so different. And why is it the further North you travel the accent seems to become 'more Broad, if that's indeed true or the correct description. Is the UK unique in this way or do others have experiences of Accent change in other countries? I find it all very interesting and would love to know what peoples theories/knowledge of accents are, or their experiences.

    Is accent determined by weather, geographic environment, industry, class etc. Interested to know peoples thoughts.
    Of course there are different accents in different countries. Our accents are influenced by the language spoken around us by parents, friends, peer groups, communities, colleagues, teachers, the media etc.

    As for accents becoming more broad as one goes further north, I would say that you need to look through the opposite end of the telescope i.e. Standard English was formed by the powers-that-be adopting the accents in the area of London, Cambridge and Oxford and accents from further afield are less closely related to the accents in that area. The national roll-out of a dialect that was predominant in capital cities or important regions around the world is very commonplace.

    Many dialects are dying out, however. When I worked in Germany the old fellows always talked and swore at me in the local dialect (which was closer to Dutch and which prompted me to learn the latter language in my spare time) but that dialect is all but dead now as far as the younger generation is concerned over there.

  12. #12

    Re: Accents..

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuerto View Post

    Is accent determined by weather, geographic environment, industry, class etc. Interested to know peoples thoughts.
    Really good question. I think all those things plus a sub-conscious adjustment to your personal circumstances and fitting in to social groups.

    As an example I went from the Valleys to Swansea University and played football for them whilst there. Two or three years later I was still living in the Valleys and playing for a Welsh League team when we played Swansea Uni at Home. I still knew two or three of the lads in that team. In the showers after I had a catch-up chat with a couple. When I came back into the home dressing room the rest of the team took the piss out of me mercilessly. My accent talking to the Uni lads was significantly different to that I was using normally at the time yet I was totally oblivious to this.

    I have now spent the majority of my life in the South East England. Local strangers often ask where I am from in Wales unprompted after a few minutes conversation. My kids laugh at how much broader my accent becomes when I go home or meet friends at away games.

    I just live with it as a blessing and a curse now!

  13. #13

    Re: Accents..

    The bradford accent is great

    All the north east accents , middlesborough , sunderland , newcastle sound exactly the same to me
    something that
    Stoke is a strange accent , half scouse , half east midlands

    Nottingham , leicester and derby accents all sound the same

    Cardiff is an odd one , in the middle of mostly strong south wales accents you have something that sounds like scouse . When I was in college there was a cardiff lass on the course and everyone thought she was from liverpool . Apparently cardiff and liverpool are so similar because both had a high irish immigration to build the docks which influenced the accent .

    Oxford is a funny one , like reading it's not far from london but like reading the locals sound like wurzels

    The newport accent kills me , I cant stop laughing every time I hear someone from newport speak

  14. #14

    Re: Accents..

    Funnily enough I posted a thread on here last April about Welsh accents and how much they differ in a short distance.
    http://www.ccmb.co.uk/showthread.php...hlight=accents

  15. #15

    Re: Accents..

    Quote Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays View Post
    Really good question. I think all those things plus a sub-conscious adjustment to your personal circumstances and fitting in to social groups.

    As an example I went from the Valleys to Swansea University and played football for them whilst there. Two or three years later I was still living in the Valleys and playing for a Welsh League team when we played Swansea Uni at Home. I still knew two or three of the lads in that team. In the showers after I had a catch-up chat with a couple. When I came back into the home dressing room the rest of the team took the piss out of me mercilessly. My accent talking to the Uni lads was significantly different to that I was using normally at the time yet I was totally oblivious to this.

    I have now spent the majority of my life in the South East England. Local strangers often ask where I am from in Wales unprompted after a few minutes conversation. My kids laugh at how much broader my accent becomes when I go home or meet friends at away games.

    I just live with it as a blessing and a curse now!
    I've always wondered if an accent is determined by physical factors, like weather, poverty, hardship etc. We all make different noises determined on how we are feeling physically. If (for the sake of argument) a person lives in an environment where the weather is harsh or extreme, then wouldn't that determine the sounds we make and how we express ourselves? I really have no idea and it's quite likely that i'm talking a load of Tosh.

  16. #16

    Re: Accents..

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
    The bradford accent is great

    All the north east accents , middlesborough , sunderland , newcastle sound exactly the same to me
    something that
    Stoke is a strange accent , half scouse , half east midlands

    Nottingham , leicester and derby accents all sound the same

    Cardiff is an odd one , in the middle of mostly strong south wales accents you have something that sounds like scouse . When I was in college there was a cardiff lass on the course and everyone thought she was from liverpool . Apparently cardiff and liverpool are so similar because both had a high irish immigration to build the docks which influenced the accent .

    Oxford is a funny one , like reading it's not far from london but like reading the locals sound like wurzels

    The newport accent kills me , I cant stop laughing every time I hear someone from newport speak
    Middlesboro accent is nothing like a geordie accent. In Oxford the saying is -You're either a 'Townie' or a 'gownie'

  17. #17

    Re: Accents..

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuerto View Post
    I've always wondered if an accent is determined by physical factors, like weather, poverty, hardship etc. We all make different noises determined on how we are feeling physically. If (for the sake of argument) a person lives in an environment where the weather is harsh or extreme, then wouldn't that determine the sounds we make and how we express ourselves? I really have no idea and it's quite likely that i'm talking a load of Tosh.
    I live in a village that has a station with direct links to London. Several satellite villages and communities in about a three mile radius don't so lots of people drive to the station to commute. There is such an array of accents. Some Berkshire accents are quite cockney-like and others very rural with quite a burr. Many are indistinctive but many of the commuters speak like they chewed on a full bowl of plums for breakfast so I would err towards social class and background more than geography and climate given the distance from the station.

  18. #18

    Re: Accents..

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuerto View Post
    Middlesboro accent is nothing like a geordie accent. In Oxford the saying is -You're either a 'Townie' or a 'gownie'
    It sounds the same to me , in fact one of the lads at college was called geordie in our block of flats even though he was from redcar , he hated it

    Can you tell the difference between a pontypridd accent and port Talbot? I cant

    Oxford and reading are close to london but the locals sound like they are from the west country . I used to live in headington and cowley in oxford and it was like being in bristol

    In general , accents are determined by immigration , newport has that rewnd the roundabout twang on certain words because a lot of labourers from the west country and rural monmouthshire settled there and joined the seaport accent which is like cardiff , to give you cewnty

    In the united states Minnesota had a lot of Scandinavian immigration hence the accent seen in the film Fargo

  19. #19

    Re: Accents..

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuerto View Post
    The South Wales Valleys accent (especially when women are talking) always ends in a sympathetic tone, with a 'Ahhh' 'Love you' 'Never Mind' etc it's quite soothing to hear, although when they're shouting at their kids it's the stuff of tractor fuel!
    I’m valleys myself (Taff Valley). We tend to talk very quickly and it is quite lyrical. Used to get mistaken for a Geordie quite a lot when in abroad. It’s interesting though that the Gwent valleys have a distinctive twang to their accent and it sounds a little bit harsher to my valleys ear.

  20. #20

    Re: Accents..

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuerto View Post
    Middlesboro accent is nothing like a geordie accent. In Oxford the saying is -You're either a 'Townie' or a 'gownie'
    The two accents concerned are different but they have a degree of commonality that would not correspond if you compared either accent with other accents further afield e.g. Kent, Cornwall or Chepstow.

  21. #21

    Re: Accents..

    Quote Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie View Post
    The two accents concerned are different but they have a degree of commonality that would not correspond if you compared either accent with other accents further afield e.g. Kent, Cornwall or Chepstow.
    Yup. there are similarities, which is something else that interests me, how accents 'feather out' into near by regions.

  22. #22

    Re: Accents..

    Quote Originally Posted by Jordi Culé View Post
    I’m valleys myself (Taff Valley). We tend to talk very quickly and it is quite lyrical. Used to get mistaken for a Geordie quite a lot when in abroad. It’s interesting though that the Gwent valleys have a distinctive twang to their accent and it sounds a little bit harsher to my valleys ear.
    I'd say that the gwent valley accent has an element of the Newport accent, The Swansea accent is a bit 'gruffy'. The Cardiff accent is influenced by generation. I know a few old boys from Grangetown and Splott and the accent the have is very different from the accents of the younger generation in the same areas. The younger generation seem to hold onto their words longer and slur at the end of a sentence, the older generation are quite direct and distinct.

  23. #23

    Re: Accents..

    I too have always been fascinated by accents and love trying to pinpoint them when on hols abroad. Some can be tricky. For instance Suffolk and Bristol are both wurzely even though they're geographically over a 100 miles apart.

    The Mid Wales accent is a real strange one. Have a listen to Ian Woosnam and convince yourself he's Welsh.

    Accents are definitely not just a UK thing. For instance listen to a New Yorker and someone from the Deep South. Couldn't sound more different.

    If you want a real challenge check out Lyse Doucet, who is a journalist reporting for the BBC occasionally. When you think you've nailed the accent, have a look at her heritage. It may surprise you.

  24. #24

    Re: Accents..

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuerto View Post
    Yup. there are similarities, which is something else that interests me, how accents 'feather out' into near by regions.
    If you walked from Land's End to John O'Groats and spoke to local, indigenous people every few miles you probably wouldn't detect a great deal of change from one day to the next. It's more akin to a continuum and in all directions. Certain characteristics may be concentrated in certain areas, of course.

  25. #25

    Re: Accents..

    ya
    Quote Originally Posted by Toggs View Post
    I was a student in Bangor in the 80s, the locals had an odd accent, closer to a Cardiff accent than standard North Walian, with a bit of scouse mixed in, within a mile or so across the Menai Straight it was the full on Gog accent. I did a teaching practice in a school in Holywell where the accent was differrent again, a very nasal sort of North Walian/ Manchester. One kid sounded full on scouse, when I asked why I was told he’d moved from Connah’s Quay where they all spoke like that, it’s only 2 or 3 miles down the road. I guess it very localised all over.
    I think it was Bangor we went to in the 90’s to watch City in that poxy Welsh cuppie thingy.

    When we got out of the car, we thought we’d shot past and ended up in Liverpool. Frigging weird

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