How can Jersey be so far ahead of us ?

[Baloo]

It reminds me of the university who are always talking about global warming putting up information that was later proved to have been altered to rpove their argument. If a university will do it who else will? (University of East Anglia??)

Just on this point, I believe they were exonerated weren't they following several enquiries?

[Croesy Blue]

A question for everyone who thinks the measures have been a waste of time:

Do you not think we’ve had a lot more deaths than usual?

Do you not think these deaths are directly or indirectly related to covid-19?

Do you not think everyone is worried about the effects on the economy?

Do you not think we would have had a lot more deaths if we hadn’t had those measures in place?

[J R Hartley]

Not everyone who’s died of covid is like that though, I lost a 70 year old relative last week, no visitors while in hospital and none of us allowed at their funeral.

My mates dad died of it and he was 60 and only 4 of them can go to his funeral.

A lot more people died of it than ever needed to, look at the excess deaths compared to normal. And along with that it’s a pretty horrible and lonely way to go.

I think the attitude of people die anyway is pretty shortsighted tbh.

Yes everyone is in the same boat with regards funerals, she didn’t have any children her nieces and nephews were like her children but neither her brother or her any of her nieces or nephews could attend the funeral because they are in the vulnerable category, so my missus had to organise it all and only her and her sister could attend. it’s shitty but life must go on.

I’m not in anyway saying some of these deaths could have been avoided and when the dust has settled hopefully there will be a proper investigation, all I am saying is we cannot just lockdown until there is a vaccine. There might never be one. Its unfortunate but more people are going to die, that’s a fact, and we are going to have to learn to live with it.

[Croesy Blue]

You didn't you said "Disprove this then." That's not a question it a demand - confrontational, and as usual you chose to ignore what my port was actually about which was that I have an innate skepticism about these things. I did not say the figures were wrong or manipulated.
I said I tend to question them generally, not that I do not believe the ones in question here.
and notice I haven't deliberately miswritten what you actually said, as you normally do.
Waste!!

I didn’t mean to come across as confrontational. I’m just a bit annoyed about a lot of the attitudes towards this still. Apologies if it came across as a pop.

[J R Hartley]

A question for everyone who thinks the measures have been a waste of time:

Do you not think we’ve had a lot more deaths than usual?

Do you not think these deaths are directly or indirectly related to covid-19?

Do you not think everyone is worried about the effects on the economy?

Do you not think we would have had a lot more deaths if we hadn’t had those measures in place?

I don’t think the measures have been a waste of time I just think we cannot continue paying people 80% to sit on their arse doing jack shit. I hope it’s not extended to end of July and that there is a different furlough strategy from July 1st and not a free for all that it is now.

[Croesy Blue]

Yes everyone is in the same boat with regards funerals, she didn’t have any children her nieces and nephews were like her children but neither her brother or her any of her nieces or nephews could attend the funeral because they are in the vulnerable category, so my missus had to organise it all and only her and her sister could attend. it’s shitty but life must go on.

I’m not in anyway saying some of these deaths could have been avoided and when the dust has settled hopefully there will be a proper investigation, all I am saying is we cannot just lockdown until there is a vaccine. There might never be one. Its unfortunate but more people are going to die, that’s a fact, and we are going to have to learn to live with it.

I agree we can’t lockdown until there’s a vaccine but we can behave and manage the situation in an intelligent way to limit deaths.

I want to get back to normal as much as anyone else, I just think we’ve been asked to do something pretty simple that could save a lot of lives.

[xsnaggle]

Just on this point, I believe they were exonerated weren't they following several enquiries?

There was one particular graph they used to show a huge plateau of global warming since the mid fifties and took it back over 800 years showing everything level, conveniently omitting the big spike in temperatures in the dark ages (not as high but high enough) because it didn't suit their argument.
When questioned they said they left it out because it wasn't relevant to the argument. But I'm sure they found a way to wriggle out of it.
The thing is because of that it led people to question and disbelieve all the other things they did that were probably for the most part quite accurate.

[xsnaggle]

I didn’t mean to come across as confrontational. I’m just a bit annoyed about a lot of the attitudes towards this still. Apologies if it came across as a pop.

Every time you reply to my posts its a "pop"

[goats]

I agree we can’t lockdown until there’s a vaccine but we can behave and manage the situation in an intelligent way to limit deaths.

I want to get back to normal as much as anyone else, I just think we’ve been asked to do something pretty simple that could save a lot of lives.

I don’t think we can all behave though, that’s the issue. There are some amazingly stupid people living here.

[goats]

Summed up well

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/a....html#comments

[J R Hartley]

I agree we can’t lockdown until there’s a vaccine but we can behave and manage the situation in an intelligent way to limit deaths.

I want to get back to normal as much as anyone else, I just think we’ve been asked to do something pretty simple that could save a lot of lives.

I agree and most of us are doing so. I go to work every day there’s only 2 of us in the office instead of 12. 8 on furlough, the other 2 working from home.

There’s probably going to be 4 made redundant and the rest working from home for a while yet and there’s plans in place to put up Perspex between each work station and ppe when everyone’s back in the office, whenever that may be.

There’s going to be a new normal we are not going to be able to go back to the old normal for many months, possibly years, but there’s got to be some middle ground somewhere and restrictions relaxed. Just living in fear of a second spike being worst than the first, in my opinion, will do irreversible damage to the economy.

Maybe because people have been working at home they are not seeing the harsh reality of it but I’m going into a factory that’s operating at around 25% of its capacity / usual sale, this isn’t sustainable but at least we have some money coming in to go towards overheads. There’s some industries got 0% coming in with no light at the end of the tunnel. It really is frightening.

[Baloo]

There was one particular graph they used to show a huge plateau of global warming since the mid fifties and took it back over 800 years showing everything level, conveniently omitting the big spike in temperatures in the dark ages (not as high but high enough) because it didn't suit their argument.
When questioned they said they left it out because it wasn't relevant to the argument. But I'm sure they found a way to wriggle out of it.
The thing is because of that it led people to question and disbelieve all the other things they did that were probably for the most part quite accurate.

I'm not sure that's really an accurate summary.

But anyway, it's a different topic altogether and there's plenty of info. available about it online for those interested. I saw a documentary about it a a few months ago which was why I initially responded. Moving on.

[Croesy Blue]

Couldn’t agree more JR

It’s a difficult situation, hopefully the new measures work as intended.

[J R Hartley]

I don’t think we can all behave though, that’s the issue. There are some amazingly stupid people living here.

There are but they are the loud minority. The ones that get reported on. I think the vast majority are observing the rules.

Although, talk of lifting the lockdown the week leading up to a bank holiday weekend was utterly stupid.

[Organ Morgan.]

What would happen if your wish came true?

I suspect the primary reason for deaths from a range of other diseases would rise while those attributable to COVID-19 would plummet.

I think that's what the Italian MP I posted a video of was saying about the number of deaths in his country; that they are grossly exaggerated.

[The Lone Gunman]

There’s going to be a new normal we are not going to be able to go back to the old normal for many months, possibly years......

Alternatively, we may be able to go back to the old normal within a couple of months, or by the end of the year.

Nobody knows.

[Eric Cartman]

There was one particular graph they used to show a huge plateau of global warming since the mid fifties and took it back over 800 years showing everything level, conveniently omitting the big spike in temperatures in the dark ages (not as high but high enough) because it didn't suit their argument.
When questioned they said they left it out because it wasn't relevant to the argument. But I'm sure they found a way to wriggle out of it.
The thing is because of that it led people to question and disbelieve all the other things they did that were probably for the most part quite accurate.

Shouldn't the takeaway be to look into the data yourself rather than just never trust graphs again.

[Croesy Blue]

Every time you reply to my posts its a "pop"

I disagree with a lot of what you post in fairness, It’s not supposed to be personal.

[CCFCC3PO]

I don’t think the measures have been a waste of time I just think we cannot continue paying people 80% to sit on their arse doing jack shit. I hope it’s not extended to end of July and that there is a different furlough strategy from July 1st and not a free for all that it is now.

I can't see the Government retaining this scheme for much longer.

[Eric Cartman]

I don’t think the measures have been a waste of time I just think we cannot continue paying people 80% to sit on their arse doing jack shit. I hope it’s not extended to end of July and that there is a different furlough strategy from July 1st and not a free for all that it is now.

We should never have paid people 80% up to 2.5k to start with, we should have paid what it costs to live. If you lose your job in a few months time you will be on the peanuts of universal credit, it is hypocrisy and unfairness at its finest.

[CCFCC3PO]

Shouldn't the takeaway be to look into the data yourself rather than just never trust graphs again.

That would be too difficult wouldn't it. It is ironic that the University have been accused of "omitting data to suit their argument", but xsnaggle is also omitting facts to tailor the story to suit his own argument.

[J R Hartley]

I can't see the Government retaining this scheme for much longer.

It’s not sustainable. Unfortunately a lot of scrupulous business men are more savvy than those in charge of government. A Tory government being taken by surprise at the amount of greedy businesses claiming furlough is somewhat ironic.

[J R Hartley]

We should never have paid people 80% up to 2.5k to start with, we should have paid what it costs to live. If you lose your job in a few months time you will be on the peanuts of universal credit, it is hypocrisy and unfairness at its finest.

Certainly not for 3 or 4 months. They bowed to pressure from business to extend it to 80% for June and I think they should have considered sliding it downwards from June not July.

[Organ Morgan.]

The scheme is sustainable because the government, via the BoE, can create an infinite number of new pounds to spend on whatever it chooses. £10B per month to keep 6 million furloughed workers placated is peanuts.

[xsnaggle]

Shouldn't the takeaway be to look into the data yourself rather than just never trust graphs again.

I'm not interested enough to look into the data myself but if someone posts a graph on here obviously I see it. The first thing I tend to look at though are the parameters of the graph, as in how close or apart the lines may be and such like, and then the time line. Just my doubting mind, nothing to get het up about.
I've used graphs enough myself to prove my point to know how they can be manipulated, just like any other statistic.