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That's the rub, isn't it? If you start the journey in Wales and return into Wales.Originally Posted by CCFCC3PO
Yes it would be, another poster was thinking of making a journey to England and wondered if he was right or wrong. The only point I was making was that he might get out but may get stopped and fined for an illegal journey on the way home again.
But I think more people will start doing that kind of thing in the next couple of weeks.
specially if there is more divergence in easing.
That is apparent in their abuse of Drakeford for having different rules to Johnson. Strangely. Drakeford is a pariah for having a different set of rules to Johnson, but Johnson is completely correct for having rules that differ from Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.
It's both an anti-Senedd thing (as per the ad hominem attacks on Drakeford), and a Party Political stance (Tories Good, Labour Bad).
I've never voted for one single party - it seems completely ridiculous to label yourself a Labour voter when Labour in 2022 will be much different from Labour in 2019, which was completely alien compared to Labour in 1997.
We have 4 leaders, and very little leadership if truth is known. We have, globally, adopted populist leaders from Trump in the West to Duterte in the East, and all the people in between. In normal times, these leaders would have been disastrous, now it is completely ludicrous.
But, instead of attacking the crazy guidelines with their contradictory advisories (essential journeys, but can go to B&Q for paint, can buy clothes in Asda, but not in Next) - people are hell bent on following the tribalism of politics that has left us all in a completely unprepared position globally to look at long term issues (global warming, pandemics, earthquakes etc) as we blindly follow leaders whose only goal is to have 4 years crafting rules to suit their post political career.
Just because more people are doing it, it doesn't make it right. If anything, and if the backdrop is still hundreds of deaths a day, it may result in us going to more stringent rules again.
You may not know anyone in the vulnerable stage, but if you do you may appreciate that they are currently approaching their 70th day without venturing beyond their front doors. The selfishness of the populace with their (I should be able to do things like go to a Park in England instead of the ones locally) is a complete piss take to the position of many who are stuck indoors - too scared to see relatives.
The possibility that "more people will start doing this" is also the possibility that we see more spikes in infections, leading to an even longer period for the vulnerable to stay stuck at home.
The fact that the rules differ in England and Wales is not an excuse to start making unnecessary journeys just because you want to highlight that the rules suck.
I think the answer to my question is here - describing the regulations that are separately passed in London, Cardiff, Edinburgh and Belfast on the back of Westminster legislation:
https://www.kingsleynapley.co.uk/ins...s-for-lockdown
Also this which reflects the 6 week old argument about whether some of the police fines are lawful or not!
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a9511946.html
I'm a Labour Party member but would've preferred cross nation guidlines, it would be so much easier to govern. There is so much Cross Border movement and commerce, it would've made complete sense. I'm a bit confused over the shopping thing, Do Next, Primark etc have to close? If not, then it seems ridiculous under the current circumstances that they are shut. Personally, i don't think it's a bad thing if it protects workers in these places, although it does seem like a massive contradiction if you can browse the same products in a supermarket.
They say they are closed "in line with Government guidance". So, I think that is a yes.
the differences are silly but as things are changing in different areas at different speeds you may get localised variations. I said in a thread weeks ago that if (as I suspected then) it was lifted more slowly in Wales than in England that there would be a back lash and everyone told me it would be the other way around and I was wrong.
now they are saying there will be no change at all until the end of this 3 week period and then only "Modest" changes. I think its a recipe for complete ignoring of the rules. Whether that is right or wrong is a different matter.
with regard ot the political aspect I read in other places that some thought that the devolved heads deliberately spoke bfeore the PM so as to gazzump him if you will. Then there were things in papers with comments about Johnson being out of step, whereas in reality, like it or not, the Westminster government is the government of the whole of UK. many people berate what johnson says and conveniently ignore the fact that what he says does not affect us, but when the Welsh government says something it's OK. I think both should be held to account because they have both proved their incompetence in this. But what Drakeford says affects us directly so he is the man we should be holding to account most.
Interesting. I said earlier that the Law would have issues enforcing movement based on Constitutional rights, although we don't have one as such, it's underwritten by acts of parliament as you've posted. What i didn't know is that the state has to 'ask' these businesses to close if i've read correctly.
Just read through jon 1959 post on the details of the controls of disease act (didn't think i'd ever be saying that) it's cleared a few things up for me.
There is too much ambiguity and interpretation with all this - even when there was a four nation approach - and a widening gap between the sensible and the lawful. I agree with the cautious approach to lifting restrictions, but working out what could and should happen in practice is becoming ever more difficult. This police guidance for England is a few weeks old - but at the time it could have applied across the UK and I assume this was the template for Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland. Not now.
https://www.college.police.uk/Docume...egislation.pdf
Going forward, I would expect action to be more local rather than national. The argument isn't about who wins the race to ease lockdown first (I wasn't disagreeing with you about England relaxing faster than Wales, I was pointing out that it could be done in reverse). The argument is that we have to get the virus under control nationally, take stock of where we are, and then progress with localised rules. That is why I think the app is important. We don't want to be in a situation where, because there is a sudden spike in cases in Hereford, that the whole of the UK is in lockdown. Nor do we want to be in a situation where Chester has a spike in cases resulting in a massive lockdown for the whole of England but not Wales as we see the old Labour v Tory posturing **** us over again.
Similarly, if there were a spike of cases in Cardiff, I would hope that people would adhere to rules that applied only to Cardiff instead of complaining that people in Newport were able to go about their business as normal, why shouldn't we?
Have the Government(s) learnt the lesson that quick decisive unpopular actions are needed to prevent lengthy periods of inactivity for people?
I travelled up to Birmingham and back yesterday roads nice and quiet, only seen one police car.
Had you run out of bread
**** sake Genie. That must have been some journey home. 11 miles on s push bike with a van on your back !!!
Had you run out of bread
He got a big rucksack.
I guess as quite a large purchase negotiate on the price to allow for a potential fine
Common sense would say it’s a safe trip, though outside the guidelines if you distance there then I can’t see how you will spread the virus
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