Essential shopping in Wales- advice

[Heisenberg]

The Stay Home message from the Welsh Government is a nonsense as it was originally in England. The Keep Alert message in England is now far more sensible meaning in my interpretation that you can go anywhere as long as you are alert to the proximity of others. Lisvane Blue could happily go to Brecon for his meat if the English rule applied in Wales. I visited my local beach this morning and everyone kept away from each other crossing the road when another person was coming the other way. So even if the media say the "Alert" message is confusing the population seems to get it even though some journalists don't.

When questioned on "Stay Alert" after it was announced, Boris Johnson said that "stay home" was still a part of the message and was also on the govt. images they released at the time. How is that not confusing matters in anyone's book?

It's not stay at home anymore it's stay alert... But please stay at home... But if you don't... Please stay alert... But please stay home.

[lardy]

The Stay Home message from the Welsh Government is a nonsense as it was originally in England. The Keep Alert message in England is now far more sensible meaning in my interpretation that you can go anywhere as long as you are alert to the proximity of others. Lisvane Blue could happily go to Brecon for his meat if the English rule applied in Wales. I visited my local beach this morning and everyone kept away from each other crossing the road when another person was coming the other way. So even if the media say the "Alert" message is confusing the population seems to get it even though some journalists don't.

But how do you know that everyone is safe through being "alert"? Were the millions of cases so far only for people who weren't alert enough?

I've mainly been at home and have protected myself when out, but still somehow managed to get a runny nose and light cold a few weeks back.

You wouldn't get rid of speed limits and ask people to be alert because you can't trust them. So why would it be different for something invisible?

I'm not saying people are dumb or careless, just that we don't know how to avoid being infected accidentally. It happens to everyone regularly.

[Hilts]

The Stay Alert thing is ludicrous. It shows how bad Johnson and his Ministers are. Stay alert drive wherever you like but stay at home as much as possible.

How can a 100 mile drive to a tourist spot and keeping social distancing and staying at home as much as possible work.?

Stay alert on a bus/train full when your told go to work..... but dont go.

Its a feckin mess.

People may be ignoring Stay at home but its quite straightforward. Boris and co say stay alert go where u want but stay at home as well.

[Vindec]

The Stay Alert thing is ludicrous. It shows how bad Johnson and his Ministers are. Stay alert drive wherever you like but stay at home as much as possible.

How can a 100 mile drive to a tourist spot and keeping social distancing and staying at home as much as possible work.?

Stay alert on a bus/train full when your told go to work..... but dont go.

Its a feckin mess.

People may be ignoring Stay at home but its quite straightforward. Boris and co say stay alert go where u want but stay at home as well.

The Stay Home message is very unclear when in the next breath you are told you can go shopping, go to work if you can't at home, go to the Doctor and take daily exercise. The Keep Alert message has it's faults, as others have recognised, but it does remind people that you must be alert to the proximity of others. I see no problem in driving somewhere as when you are in a car you are remote from others and the Keep Alert message enables that to happen. It seems to me that common sense should apply whatever the message but I know which one I prefer even if others are in disagreement.

[The Lone Gunman]

What Ive been trying to say is that lots of people including you seem to get their knickers in a twist about the nitty gritty of what we have been asked to do.

Jesus wept, this is hard work....

I’m not getting my knickers in a twist about the nitty gritty of the guidelines. I couldn’t care less what you choose to do. It will have no effect on me whatsoever. I was merely giving you what is the blatantly obvious answer to what was an extremely dumb question.

If you’re not content with my answer, go ask the South Wales Police. I’m sure they’ll be happy to advise accordingly.

[The Lone Gunman]

The Stay Home message from the Welsh Government is a nonsense as it was originally in England. The Keep Alert message in England is now far more sensible meaning in my interpretation that you can go anywhere as long as you are alert to the proximity of others. Lisvane Blue could happily go to Brecon for his meat if the English rule applied in Wales.

That would probably be true in practice, but not in principle.

The current travel guidelines for England:

Is your journey necessary?

Before you travel, consider if your journey is necessary and if you can, stay local. Try to reduce your travel. This will help keep the transport network running and allow people who need to make essential journeys to travel. You can reduce your travel by:

Working from home where possible
Shopping less frequently and shopping locally

That advice is date 12th May is on the Department of Transport pages on Gov.UK.

[The Lone Gunman]

That would probably be true in practice, but not in principle.

The current travel guidelines for England:

Is your journey necessary?

Before you travel, consider if your journey is necessary and if you can, stay local. Try to reduce your travel. This will help keep the transport network running and allow people who need to make essential journeys to travel. You can reduce your travel by:

Working from home where possible
Shopping less frequently and shopping locally

That advice is date 12th May is on the Department of Transport pages on Gov.UK.

I should have added that if you're driving for exercise, you can go anywhere you like.

As I've said many, many times in recent weeks, the guidelines (both original and updated) are nonsense.

[Vindec]

That would probably be true in practice, but not in principle.

The current travel guidelines for England:

Is your journey necessary?

Before you travel, consider if your journey is necessary and if you can, stay local. Try to reduce your travel. This will help keep the transport network running and allow people who need to make essential journeys to travel. You can reduce your travel by:

Working from home where possible
Shopping less frequently and shopping locally

That advice is date 12th May is on the Department of Transport pages on Gov.UK.

Thanks. I was aware of that in broad terms but when Grant Shapps appeared at the Daily Press Conference he implied that message was intended to reduce the usage of public transport especially in London where the tubes were clearly overcrowded and made social distancing impossible. Boris, in his wisdom, indicated/implied that you could drive anywhere for exercise but the interpretation has become so loose that the population seems to have taken that to mean you can drive anywhere for any purpose such as going to the beach where an element of exercise can take place. I guess shopping involves a degree of exercise meaning that Lisvane Blue could happily drive to Brecon for his meat if the English rule applied in Wales. It's all rather nonsensical but we are where we are.

However, in Wales it clearly is not intended that people can drive long distances for buying food when there are plenty of places nearer home that can serve that purpose so to that extent I agree with everything you have said.

[The Lone Gunman]

I was aware of that in broad terms but when Grant Shapps appeared at the Daily Press Conference he implied that message was intended to reduce the usage of public transport especially in London where the tubes were clearly overcrowded and made social distancing impossible. Boris, in his wisdom, indicated/implied that you could drive anywhere for exercise but the interpretation has become so loose that the population seems to have taken that to mean you can drive anywhere for any purpose such as going to the beach where an element of exercise can take place.

This is the thing - the guidelines and the messages regarding them were largely nonsensical to start with, but they've become more and more blurred as time has progressed. The (UK) government's advice on its own website states: "It is still very important that people stay home unless necessary to go out for specific reasons set out in law."

It then goes on to say you can go out for pretty much anything, including my favourite, which is: "going to shops that are permitted to be open." Comedy gold!

So the message is clear:

Stay home. Unless you want to go out. In which case, go out, but stay alert.

I think that just about covers it.

[Vindec]

This is the thing - the guidelines and the messages regarding them were largely nonsensical to start with, but they've become more and more blurred as time has progressed. The (UK) government's advice on its own UK government's advice is to Stay states: "It is still very important that people stay home unless necessary to go out for specific reasons set out in law."

It then goes on to say you can go out for pretty much anything, including my favourite, which is: "going to shops that are permitted to be open." Comedy gold!

So the message is clear:

Stay home. Unless you want to go out. In which case, go out, but stay alert.

I think that just about covers it.

The government's advice in England is not to Stay Home. This from the BBC seems to spell out the new position.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/explainers-52530518

In relation to the case in point the advice states:

"Households can also drive any distance in England to destinations such as parks and beaches. But they should not travel to Wales, Scotland or Northern Ireland, where people are still being told to avoid any non-essential travel".

The reference to travelling to parks and beaches are merely examples and doesn't preclude shopping thus reinforcing the points made previously.

[The Lone Gunman]

The government's advice in England is not to Stay Home. This from the BBC seems to spell out the new position.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/explainers-52530518

In relation to the case in point the advice states:

"Households can also drive any distance in England to destinations such as parks and beaches. But they should not travel to Wales, Scotland or Northern Ireland, where people are still being told to avoid any non-essential travel".

The reference to travelling to parks and beaches are merely examples and doesn't preclude shopping thus reinforcing the points made previously.

The guidance you've quoted relates to exercise and 'outdoor activity' only, not shopping. Ridiculous, but that's the way it is.

You've said the government's advice in England is not to stay at home and you're right to a degree. However, all of the official guidance on the government's own website underlines that people should stay at home "as much as possible", which is allegedly "very important". They should also consider if journeys are necessary and try to stay local, work from home where possible, shop less frequently and shop locally, etc.

I'm not making this stuff up. You can read it all for yourself if you'd care to (and you don't have to rely on the BBC). These are the UK government's own guidelines:

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...ial-distancing

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...eave-the-house

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavi...for-passengers

Basically, it's a load of bollocks. Contradictory, deliberately vague, open to all sorts of interpretations, unenforceable, largely pointless. As I've said before, the guidance in England is now effectively stay at home unless you want to go out.

[Tuerto]

I'm just going to do what the f uck i like from now on.

[The Lone Gunman]

I'm just going to do what the f uck i like from now on.

I'm going to cycle to Brecon for a game of golf and buy some burgers while I'm there.

[Vindec]

The guidance you've quoted relates to exercise and 'outdoor activity' only, not shopping. Ridiculous, but that's the way it is.

You've said the government's advice in England is not to stay at home and you're right to a degree. However, all of the official guidance on the government's own website underlines that people should stay at home "as much as possible", which is allegedly "very important". They should also consider if journeys are necessary and try to stay local, work from home where possible, shop less frequently and shop locally, etc.

I'm not making this stuff up. You can read it all for yourself if you'd care to (and you don't have to rely on the BBC). These are the UK government's own guidelines:

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...ial-distancing

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...eave-the-house

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavi...for-passengers

Basically, it's a load of bollocks. Contradictory, deliberately vague, open to all sorts of interpretations, unenforceable, largely pointless. As I've said before, the guidance in England is now effectively stay at home unless you want to go out.

I've read the links to which you refer. One of your links states:

The reasons you may leave home include:

.................................................. ....."going to shops that are permitted to be open - to get things like food and medicine".

The advice goes beyond exercise but does rely on a degree of common sense.

The BBC link I provided quoted specifically from the government's advice on Staying Alert. I wouldn't be surprised if the Welsh Government eventually follows the Stay Alert message as they rely heavily on Public Health England to determine their policies reinforcing an illusion of independence.

Thus I repeat there appears to be no limit on distance travelled for either exercise or shopping enabling Lisvane Blue to do his shopping if he lived and shopped in England.

I don't think either of us can take this much further as I agree with your view that in Wales Lisvane Blue is theoretically unable to travel to Brecon to buy meat when plenty of more local shops sell a similar product even though it might not be up to the high standard he requires.

[Tuerto]

I'm going to cycle to Brecon for a game of golf and buy some burgers while I'm there.

Im coming.

[The Lone Gunman]

Im coming.

I’ll give you a croggy.

[Tuerto]

I’ll give you a croggy.

I had to look 'Croggy' up-Must be a Rhiwbina thing as i've never heard it before, although i've done it plenty of times. The opposite is a'backie'

[The Bloop]

I also think that, where possible, shopping trips should only be done by one person from the household, so however local your meat supplier is, going there as a couple is against the regulations.

[goats]

I'm going to cycle to Brecon for a game of golf and buy some burgers while I'm there.

I know a few who took off that way yesterday for just a bit of that and camping. Funny how pedantic so many have become of late, no one used to give a monkeys what the government would say about rules and regs did they. Something must have happened hey

[The Lone Gunman]

I know a few who took off that way yesterday for just a bit of that and camping. Funny how pedantic so many have become of late, no one used to give a monkeys what the government would say about rules and regs did they. Something must have happened hey

Weird isn’t it? It’s almost like there’s a global pandemic underway involving a highly contagious virus.

[Heisenberg]

I know a few who took off that way yesterday for just a bit of that and camping. Funny how pedantic so many have become of late, no one used to give a monkeys what the government would say about rules and regs did they. Something must have happened hey

35,000 deaths and counting.

[blue matt]

Its all rubbish and after what i have seen today is going close to a waste of time

I went back to work on monday after 2 weeks of my customers phoning and texting me about coming to clean windows, now to me, windows cleaning is far from essential, so ive stayed home and helped protect the NHS, of course BoJo's sunday announcement meant people thought it was time to get back to work from last Wednesday, i had a load of domestic and commercial customers ask when i was going, i had a few things i wanted to get done, so i started back monday, people were pleased to see me and stayed 2M away and i thought " yea, this just might work " Tuesday more of the same, i had a few people try and pay me cash, i told them they can either send a cheque or pay me next time, i was happy it was working well, i had stayed more than 2 M away from anyone, they were safe, i was safe

today i took the day off, we had promised youngest daughter we would go on a bike ride and have a family picnic, so this morning i made a appointment ( it had opened monday ) to collect our bikes from my storage container ( all done at 2 M distance and the guy opened the container and then i grabbed the bikes and left, he locked up, once again covid19 safe, 0 contact, yes this is working

so we jump on our bikes and head to a park, we park up away from others and enjoy the sun and a picnic, when i looked around

2 families sharing a portable BBQ
3 X 20yr old ish blokes playing football
6 X 11yr old boys ( i know this as they were in the school year below my daughter ) playing football, jumping on each other, rolling around on the floor, 2 of the lads dads came over to them and said its time to go, 3 lads jumped in each car
9 X teen aged lads playing football and say around
as we were leaving another group of boys arrived on scooters and all sat around sharing a few cans on red bull


on the plus side, we did see another family who were socially distancing from each other

Sure covid cases are few and far between around here, but today was honestly as if nothing was wrong, it was just like a day last year in the same country park, if it hadnt been for the other family staying away from others you would have been able to tell we are social distancing

[delmbox]

Its all rubbish and after what i have seen today is going close to a waste of time

I went back to work on monday after 2 weeks of my customers phoning and texting me about coming to clean windows, now to me, windows cleaning is far from essential, so ive stayed home and helped protect the NHS, of course BoJo's sunday announcement meant people thought it was time to get back to work from last Wednesday, i had a load of domestic and commercial customers ask when i was going, i had a few things i wanted to get done, so i started back monday, people were pleased to see me and stayed 2M away and i thought " yea, this just might work " Tuesday more of the same, i had a few people try and pay me cash, i told them they can either send a cheque or pay me next time, i was happy it was working well, i had stayed more than 2 M away from anyone, they were safe, i was safe

today i took the day off, we had promised youngest daughter we would go on a bike ride and have a family picnic, so this morning i made a appointment ( it had opened monday ) to collect our bikes from my storage container ( all done at 2 M distance and the guy opened the container and then i grabbed the bikes and left, he locked up, once again covid19 safe, 0 contact, yes this is working

so we jump on our bikes and head to a park, we park up away from others and enjoy the sun and a picnic, when i looked around

2 families sharing a portable BBQ
3 X 20yr old ish blokes playing football
6 X 11yr old boys ( i know this as they were in the school year below my daughter ) playing football, jumping on each other, rolling around on the floor, 2 of the lads dads came over to them and said its time to go, 3 lads jumped in each car
9 X teen aged lads playing football and say around
as we were leaving another group of boys arrived on scooters and all sat around sharing a few cans on red bull


on the plus side, we did see another family who were socially distancing from each other

Sure covid cases are few and far between around here, but today was honestly as if nothing was wrong, it was just like a day last year in the same country park, if it hadnt been for the other family staying away from others you would have been able to tell we are social distancing

I'm guessing you don't live in Wales? Because BoJo's announcement has no bearing on you going back to work if you do

[blue matt]

I'm guessing you don't live in Wales? Because BoJo's announcement has no bearing on you going back to work if you do

No i dont, In England

So i am afraid his announcement did, i must admit i prefer the Wales way, its simple still, stay at home, help the nhs etc etc, but i guess in the coming weeks the same will happen in Wales, lockdown slightly relaxed and you will see the same as i did today

[Croesy Blue]

I know a few who took off that way yesterday for just a bit of that and camping. Funny how pedantic so many have become of late, no one used to give a monkeys what the government would say about rules and regs did they. Something must have happened hey

I don’t get how someone can be this stupid.