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Thread: HS2 to be scrapped

  1. #1

    HS2 to be scrapped

    Absolutely no facts to back this up, so no links sorry. (Not unusual on this forum I think), just a hunch on my part. Government borrowing already astronomic (>£300 billion) so the perfect "get out of jail card" for Boris.

    HS2 can be scrapped saving over £100 billion (the odd £10 billion already spent on consultants etc will be written off as petty cash in the grand scheme of things). Boris will blame Shapp, Shapp will blame Sunak, Sunak will blame the COVID virus....bingo!

  2. #2
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    Re: HS2 to be scrapped

    Quote Originally Posted by Gofer Blue View Post
    Absolutely no facts to back this up, so no links sorry. (Not unusual on this forum I think), just a hunch on my part. Government borrowing already astronomic (>£300 billion) so the perfect "get out of jail card" for Boris.

    HS2 can be scrapped saving over £100 billion (the odd £10 billion already spent on consultants etc will be written off as petty cash in the grand scheme of things). Boris will blame Shapp, Shapp will blame Sunak, Sunak will blame the COVID virus....bingo!
    You have already touched on the problem with this, as the money hasn't been spent yet it wouldn't be a real saving at all.
    Also as I mentioned in another thread, when the economy is on its arse Governments often fund major civil infrastucture projects to get men to work and to stimulate the economy. Autobahns and the Hover Dam are 2 that spring to mind.

  3. #3

    Re: HS2 to be scrapped

    HS2 shouldnít be scrapped.

    Big infrastructure projects is what pushes this country forward

  4. #4

    Re: HS2 to be scrapped

    Quote Originally Posted by WJ99mobile View Post
    HS2 shouldn’t be scrapped.

    Big infrastructure projects is what pushes this country forward
    That wasn't the thinking ten years ago when a new Government was elected.

  5. #5

    Re: HS2 to be scrapped

    Quote Originally Posted by xsnaggle View Post
    You have already touched on the problem with this, as the money hasn't been spent yet it wouldn't be a real saving at all.
    Also as I mentioned in another thread, when the economy is on its arse Governments often fund major civil infrastucture projects to get men to work and to stimulate the economy. Autobahns and the Hover Dam are 2 that spring to mind.
    I have no problem with infrastructure projects per se and understand your argument. Phase 1 of HS2 is an unnecessary project - just to get a very few people from London to Birmingham a bit quicker. Some of the money (a fraction of the total actually) should be spent on connecting the major cities in the Midlands and the North.

  6. #6

    Re: HS2 to be scrapped

    Quote Originally Posted by WJ99mobile View Post
    HS2 shouldn’t be scrapped.

    Big infrastructure projects is what pushes this country forward
    See my reply above.

  7. #7

    Re: HS2 to be scrapped

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    That wasn't the thinking ten years ago when a new Government was elected.
    Ten years ago the new government were picking the country up off the bones of its arse thanks to the previous 13 years of self induced financial mismanagement.

  8. #8

    Re: HS2 to be scrapped

    Ah, I thought the last crash was down to the greedy bankers

  9. #9

    Re: HS2 to be scrapped

    Quote Originally Posted by Gofer Blue View Post
    Absolutely no facts to back this up, so no links sorry. (Not unusual on this forum I think), just a hunch on my part. Government borrowing already astronomic (>£300 billion) so the perfect "get out of jail card" for Boris.

    HS2 can be scrapped saving over £100 billion (the odd £10 billion already spent on consultants etc will be written off as petty cash in the grand scheme of things). Boris will blame Shapp, Shapp will blame Sunak, Sunak will blame the COVID virus....bingo!
    Something has to give this is the biggest social funding package of recent times across the world . Hope folk recall what has done in the name of job and business protection.

  10. #10

    Re: HS2 to be scrapped

    Quote Originally Posted by WJ99mobile View Post
    HS2 shouldn’t be scrapped.

    Big infrastructure projects is what pushes this country forward
    Except in Wales. M4 relief road? Swansea Lagoon..

  11. #11

    Re: HS2 to be scrapped

    Quote Originally Posted by stevebrickman View Post
    Ten years ago the new government were picking the country up off the bones of its arse thanks to the previous 13 years of self induced financial mismanagement.
    Yes, explain that one to me. Include in your answer the number of politically neutral fiscal institutions that have agreed that Labour trashed the economy, the number of times the Conservatives, as the opposition, opposed Labour's spending, not forgetting in addition to reference the global economic crash.

  12. #12

    Re: HS2 to be scrapped

    Quote Originally Posted by stevebrickman View Post
    Ten years ago the new government were picking the country up off the bones of its arse thanks to the previous 13 years of self induced financial mismanagement.
    What should they have done differently?

  13. #13

    Re: HS2 to be scrapped

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    What should they have done differently?
    Just about everything.

  14. #14

    Re: HS2 to be scrapped

    Quote Originally Posted by stevebrickman View Post
    Ten years ago the new government were picking the country up off the bones of its arse thanks to the previous 13 years of self induced financial mismanagement.
    Government policy in the last ten years has got nothing to with the Labour Party, they have not been in a position to do anything which could change it because they haven't been in Government during that period. The only party which has been able to influence things in the last decade other than the Conservatives is the Lib Dems who were very much the junior partners in a coalition. That Government inherited a situation which they decided to tackle by policies which were about as far away from "big infrastructure projects" as you can get - policies which were subsequently carried on by the Conservative administrations which followed.

    The early weeks of the current Government suggested a different approach where there would be those infrastructure projects and I can understand the thinking which says the pre Covid 19 world was different from the one the coalition faced in May 2010, but the talk this week has been about the worst recession in living memory because of the effects of the virus.

    Therefore, I would assume that the current situation is regarded as being worse than the one in 2010. So, why would the Conservative Party opt for a completely changed view of public spending to the one they chose in 2010? I just don't see it happening myself and wouldn't be surprised at all to see HS2 scrapped.

  15. #15

    Re: HS2 to be scrapped

    Quote Originally Posted by stevebrickman View Post
    Ten years ago the new government were picking the country up off the bones of its arse thanks to the previous 13 years of self induced financial mismanagement.
    I voted conservative last election but I canít stand by that. Borrowing rates never been cheaper

    Too many governments only deal with short term thinking.

    Infrastructure should be ring fenced away from politics.

  16. #16
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    Re: HS2 to be scrapped

    Quote Originally Posted by Gofer Blue View Post
    I have no problem with infrastructure projects per se and understand your argument. Phase 1 of HS2 is an unnecessary project - just to get a very few people from London to Birmingham a bit quicker. Some of the money (a fraction of the total actually) should be spent on connecting the major cities in the Midlands and the North.
    No argument from me about that. What the project is would be less important than actually doing it. Deciding the best ones to finance is an exercise for others, no me.

  17. #17
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    Re: HS2 to be scrapped

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Dwr View Post
    Except in Wales. M4 relief road? Swansea Lagoon..
    Again no argument from me on that. But these are not new projects to lift the economy, these are projects that have already been rejected.
    Perhaps the people that consigned them to the waste paper bin should dig them out and have a rethink!!

  18. #18

    Re: HS2 to be scrapped

    Quote Originally Posted by sneggyblubird View Post
    Just about everything.
    Oh I don't want you and Steve to have to spend all night on this, just give your top 5 or 10, that should do it.

  19. #19

    Re: HS2 to be scrapped

    Let's get the bridge to Ireland done first.

  20. #20

    Re: HS2 to be scrapped

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    Government policy in the last ten years has got nothing to with the Labour Party, they have not been in a position to do anything which could change it because they haven't been in Government during that period. The only party which has been able to influence things in the last decade other than the Conservatives is the Lib Dems who were very much the junior partners in a coalition. That Government inherited a situation which they decided to tackle by policies which were about as far away from "big infrastructure projects" as you can get - policies which were subsequently carried on by the Conservative administrations which followed.

    The early weeks of the current Government suggested a different approach where there would be those infrastructure projects and I can understand the thinking which says the pre Covid 19 world was different from the one the coalition faced in May 2010, but the talk this week has been about the worst recession in living memory because of the effects of the virus.

    Therefore, I would assume that the current situation is regarded as being worse than the one in 2010. So, why would the Conservative Party opt for a completely changed view of public spending to the one they chose in 2010? I just don't see it happening myself and wouldn't be surprised at all to see HS2 scrapped.
    I think it was Liam Byrne, secretary to the Treasury that in 2010 left the note for new PM David Cameron to say there was no money left. So it certainly set the scene following Gordon Browns financial mismanagement

  21. #21

    Re: HS2 to be scrapped

    Quote Originally Posted by lisvaneblue View Post
    I think it was Liam Byrne, secretary to the Treasury that in 2010 left the note for new PM David Cameron to say there was no money left. So it certainly set the scene following Gordon Browns financial mismanagement
    What should they have done differently?

  22. #22

    Re: HS2 to be scrapped

    Quote Originally Posted by lisvaneblue View Post
    I think it was Liam Byrne, secretary to the Treasury that in 2010 left the note for new PM David Cameron to say there was no money left. So it certainly set the scene following Gordon Browns financial mismanagement
    The incoming Government were faced with a situation in 2010 and chose a certain way to deal with it. The party that were the dominant influence in that administration are still in power today and I find it hard to believe they would opt for a completely different approach when faced with what we are told is a financially similar, but worse, situation today - that's all I'm saying, I'm not being party political this time.

  23. #23

    Re: HS2 to be scrapped

    Quote Originally Posted by WJ99mobile View Post
    I voted conservative last election but I canít stand by that. Borrowing rates never been cheaper

    Too many governments only deal with short term thinking.

    Infrastructure should be ring fenced away from politics.
    But as has been previously said, the Government is going to look to make savings to pay for COVID-19, not mention Brexit, which is conveniently forgotten for now.

    And how could you separate infrastructure decisions from Government, when thereís (allegedly) £100bn* to be spent? The Government could wash its hands of the thing when it all goes badly wrong.

    *The true figure will probably be £100zillion, as we all know what happens with large state projects.

  24. #24

    Re: HS2 to be scrapped

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    What should they have done differently?
    Off the top of my head.

    Deregulation of the banks.

    Sale of gold reserves

  25. #25

    Re: HS2 to be scrapped

    Quote Originally Posted by cityhammer View Post
    Off the top of my head.

    Deregulation of the banks.

    Sale of gold reserves
    And not left a stupid childlike reference note, to such a serious subject matter .

  26. #26

    Re: HS2 to be scrapped

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    The incoming Government were faced with a situation in 2010 and chose a certain way to deal with it. The party that were the dominant influence in that administration are still in power today and I find it hard to believe they would opt for a completely different approach when faced with what we are told is a financially similar, but worse, situation today - that's all I'm saying, I'm not being party political this time.
    It will soon be known if this government are of the same mind to impose fresh austerity, if they don't take that approach they will be different than the last administrations.

  27. #27

    Re: HS2 to be scrapped

    Quote Originally Posted by cityhammer View Post
    Off the top of my head.

    Deregulation of the banks.

    Sale of gold reserves
    Thank you for actually replying.

    Gold was a minor cock up blown out of all proportion, it can be used to signify bad decision making but the idea it in any meaningful way contributed to the 2008 crash/recession is to not understand the numbers involved.

    Deregulation is the main thing Labour got wrong. However, this discussion started with the assertion that the 'Tories were left to clean up Labour's mess'. As an opposition you can't do much, all you can do is oppose. Cameron and Osborne didn't oppose deregulation because they actually would have liked to go further at that time.

  28. #28

    Re: HS2 to be scrapped

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    It will soon be known if this government are of the same mind to impose fresh austerity, if they don't take that approach they will be different than the last administrations.
    As the only replies I have received on the subject of infrastructure projects in this thread have been from people trying to score party political points, I'll try and do the same. Will you support spending on big infrastructure projects by this Government if they come? Were you in support of such spending in the latter years of the decade just ended when it was part of Labour party policy?

  29. #29

    Re: HS2 to be scrapped

    All the infrastructure on the London side is well on its way, old oak common is coming along nicely, the removal of protesters in Bucks has now been completed so I would say Boris will not abandon HS2, but I think Crossrail 2 may well be booted into touch.

  30. #30
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    Re: HS2 to be scrapped

    Quote Originally Posted by Whisperer View Post
    All the infrastructure on the London side is well on its way, old oak common is coming along nicely, the removal of protesters in Bucks has now been completed so I would say Boris will not abandon HS2, but I think Crossrail 2 may well be booted into touch.
    If the do go for major infrastructure to reboot the economy they need to be looking at things well outside London and keeping their promises about spending money on provincial projects, or they will be rightly castigated for it. Crossrail is years late. Crossrail 2 would be a disaster.

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