The most spineless PM in living memory?

[CCFCC3PO]

I'm by and large anti-war, anti-violence, sort things out by peaceful and diplomatic means.

Thatcher got huge support for the Falklands. It's reckoned that it saved her premiership. She also was PM when we went to war in Iraq the first time. I can't remember her being vilified at the time.

Blair did the same as Thatcher and got vilified. I remember the time that Saddam Hussein's statue was toppled. That symbolism was well received in the UK and, from memory, was well celebrated.

It strikes me that it's a bit odd that Thatcher never really suffered the public outrage years later for her wars, yet Blair did. Perhaps I'm missing something. BTW I'm not saying that I agree with Blair's actions but it's arguable that the whole middle eastern spiral started long before he came along.

I think Blair's war was founded on a proven lie. Thatcher's wars were the results of an invasion on the Falkland Islands, and later an Iraqi invasion into Kuwait (although I thought that was John Major, but on checking it was one of Maggie's last acts as PM and I remember my dad cynically saying she was only doing it to retain power). Blair's war was based on WMDs that didn't exist. Thatcher's wars were justifiable.

[CCFCC3PO]

It's amazing how well the cabinet are defending Cummings. It's a shame they weren't anywhere near as diligent when defending care homes hey?

[Kitman]

It's amazing how well the cabinet are defending Cummings. It's a shame they weren't anywhere near as diligent when defending care homes hey?

I started off feeling sorry for Schapps on Marr just then, being chucked under ironically a bus. But his staunch defence of Cummings at the end was sickening

[xsnaggle]

I'm by and large anti-war, anti-violence, sort things out by peaceful and diplomatic means.

Thatcher got huge support for the Falklands. It's reckoned that it saved her premiership. She also was PM when we went to war in Iraq the first time. I can't remember her being vilified at the time.

Blair did the same as Thatcher and got vilified. I remember the time that Saddam Hussein's statue was toppled. That symbolism was well received in the UK and, from memory, was well celebrated.

It strikes me that it's a bit odd that Thatcher never really suffered the public outrage years later for her wars, yet Blair did. Perhaps I'm missing something. BTW I'm not saying that I agree with Blair's actions but it's arguable that the whole middle eastern spiral started long before he came along.

I get your point about the difference between the reaction to Thatchers wars and Blairs wars.
There was one basic difference. In both thatchers wars she was defending a country that had been unlawfully invaded, The Falklands and Kuwait.
in Blair's case he was helping to invade a sovereign country.
Big difference in the eyes of ordinary people, morally. you only need to look at the help we had in the Falklands and the number of nations involved in Kuwait to see it.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

I get your point about the difference between the reaction to Thatchers wars and Blairs wars.
There was one basic difference. In both thatchers wars she was defending a country that had been unlawfully invaded, The Falklands and Kuwait.
in Blair's case he was helping to invade a sovereign country.
Big difference in the eyes of ordinary people, morally. you only need to look at the help we had in the Falklands and the number of nations involved in Kuwait to see it.

I agree with all that. It still doesn't answer the fact that when Saddam Hussein was finally overthrown, it was celebrated in the UK. I reckon that, at the time it was happening, the second Gulf war was largely supported by the public. Not by me, I might add.

[William Treseder]

Johnson will be under immense pressure now, because he simply cannot stand up to Starmers cross questioning in the Commons.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Johnson will be under immense pressure now, because he simply cannot stand up to Starmers cross questioning in the Commons.

I doubt that would matter to the majority of the population. In fact, I reckon some of Johnson's most right wing fans would argue that Johnson has Starmer in knots.

[splott parker]

I doubt that would matter to the majority of the population. In fact, I reckon some of Johnson's most right wing fans would argue that Johnson has Starmer in knots.

He’s got me in knots, his waffling & bumbling has me baffled, doesn’t take much to do that mind but I expect the bloke ruining, erm running, the country to be comprehensible.

[CCFCC3PO]

I doubt that would matter to the majority of the population. In fact, I reckon some of Johnson's most right wing fans would argue that Johnson has Starmer in knots.

True. I also think Johnson will play to the crowd when MPs return in 2 weeks. Starmer is forensic, but Johnson's replies will get the biggest cheers and that's what will be played to the unsuspecting Social Media users who are being targeted without realising it.

[Heisenberg]

I’m not smug, and for the record if we had an election tomorrow Keir Starmer would get my vote

You haven't addressed the 'twat' part

[lisvaneblue]

You haven't addressed the 'twat' part

I’ve been called worse by the missus

[life on mars]

I went out and bought some meat and two veg today and stuffed it down my trousers

Hope you went on a bus as thats for essential travellers and those needing to get to work safely

[life on mars]

But.....I would not vote for Drakeford. I think his group over the years has let their voters down big time

Think a lot of folk agree , a lot of them are traditional Labour voters, will be intresting to see how the May election results , Labour lost 6 seats ,probably down to Corbyn dislike and Brexit , with those issues removed it will be of interest to everyone within Wales and beyond as a barometer of the political climate post Covid.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Blair adopted US foreign policy, Thatcher didn't, by the way, the UK Government had tried to get rid of Las Malvinas on a couple of occasions before the Argentine Invasion. What we are seeing now in the Middle East is a direct result of UK and American Foreign policy. We completely de stabilised an already unstable region by invading, occupying and attempting to put in place our own and more convenient type of democracy and allowed factions who hated each over to rise up and subsequently created a civil war where people are still being murdered to this day. Sadly, it's not news anymore, people are bored of it. The Tories also supported the invasion and the Lib Dems supported 'Our Troops' once the invasion had started.

These criminal actions by Blair and Bush have completely destabilised the whole world, born out of the invasion was ISIS and their merry followers and a rise in islamophobia and the fascist right. The UK's involvement led to huge amounts of refugees, death and suffering, nobody was spared which probably couldn't be said about that Evil bastard Saddam Hussein who we loved dealing with during the mid to late eighties. It has affected politics in the UK as well, a rise in the neo right, racism and xenophobia, leading to post colonial fallout in the most deprived areas that labour should have helped and supported, which always results in reactionary behaviour like voting to leave the EU because of foreigners and electing Boris-Same in the states with Trump.

I will never forget the image of bush and blair in cowboys boots and jackets strutting around the White House lawns , supposedly deep in thought

Pair of fire starters

Praying to god

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Hope you went on a bus as thats for essential travellers and those needing to get to work safely

I walked

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Lets not forget that many people who voted Boris in, including life long labour supporters, did so for one thing....Deliver Brexit, and they knew it was unlikely to happen with Corbyn in power

I think the decision to deliver brexit as it were is going to take fecking years and once it's down we can have another referendum because after a few years the public will realise what a monumentally stupid decision leaving europe was . Then when the decision is made to go cap in hand back to europe we will be right in the deep stuff .

[CCFCC3PO]

Why does the Cummings story matter? And what does it obscure? The real story is the huge transfer of government assets to private companies that he is overseeing under cover of a pandemic while restructuring the Cabinet Office into his & @michaelgove's private fiefdom
1/

— Carole Cadwalladr (@carolecadwalla) May 23, 2020

Interesting twitter thread.

[xsnaggle]

Why does the Cummings story matter? And what does it obscure? The real story is the huge transfer of government assets to private companies that he is overseeing under cover of a pandemic while restructuring the Cabinet Office into his & @michaelgove's private fiefdom
1/

— Carole Cadwalladr (@carolecadwalla) May 23, 2020

Interesting twitter thread.

Is this another conspiracy theory? "huge transfer of government assets to private companies" Shirley someone might spot that?

[CCFCC3PO]

Is this another conspiracy theory? "huge transfer of government assets to private companies" Shirley someone might spot that?

Carole Cadwalladr was also accused of being a conspiracy theorist on the Cambridge Analytica story, so she is probably used to being dismissed as such.

[xsnaggle]

Carole Cadwalladr was also accused of being a conspiracy theorist on the Cambridge Analytica story, so she is probably used to being dismissed as such.

Even so, huge transfer of government assets is a bit heavy don't you think? What assets would they be FFS?

[CCFCC3PO]

Even so, huge transfer of government assets is a bit heavy don't you think? What assets would they be FFS?

Not really. An asset could be anything from a contract to supply a service to an actual body like the NHS. You're probably thinking towards the "too heavy" part of the spectrum, whereas I think it's likely to be the smaller end of the spectrum.

[IanD]

Why does the Cummings story matter? And what does it obscure? The real story is the huge transfer of government assets to private companies that he is overseeing under cover of a pandemic while restructuring the Cabinet Office into his & @michaelgove's private fiefdom
1/

— Carole Cadwalladr (@carolecadwalla) May 23, 2020

Interesting twitter thread.

Save the NHS....whilst privatising education by the back door. Tax breaks for private health insurance for some and an increase in stealth taxes for everyone. Not straight away. Wont look good for the Midlanders and those up north that voted blue.

[xsnaggle]

Save the NHS....whilst privatising education by the back door. Tax breaks for private health insurance for some and an increase in stealth taxes for everyone. Not straight away. Wont look good for the Midlanders and those up north that voted blue.

would you like to insert the word "could" into your post? Just for clarity?

[Croesy Blue]

Is this another conspiracy theory? "huge transfer of government assets to private companies" Shirley someone might spot that?

Read the thread.

[xsnaggle]

Read the thread.

I did thanks.. sorry if my comment doesn't fit with your thinking.