UK Covid-19 death figures

[Heisenberg]

Your OP was about UK deaths, so the UK Gov must share responsibility for that. My comments related to Wales and the responsibility for healthcare rests solely with the Senedd. Its pretty straightforward, but you just don't seem to get it

Quick question... Currently, how big is the hole that you've been digging?

[Croesy Blue]

[Vindec]

We got in, they didn't, they pulled rank when they realised they had made a huge massive mistake.
They were all for that Nazi type policy known as herd immunity and were of that mind set, they realise they were out of step with the sentiment of their Celtic neighbours and most of the World and pinched our stuff in the name of the UK, when Englands population makes up nearly all of the UK.

Sorry to have confused you with some facts.

[jon1959]

Your OP was about UK deaths, so the UK Gov must share responsibility for that. My comments related to Wales and the responsibility for healthcare rests solely with the Senedd. Its pretty straightforward, but you just don't seem to get it

I think everyone gets it.

They also get that any effective lockdown that the WAG might theoretically have put forward at an earlier stage couldn't have worked without an economic package alongside - and that means the UK government. They also get that the main public health messages received by the Welsh public have come from the UK government. I think that is also the case in Scotland where Nicola Sturgeon has been effective with a Scottish information campaign, but one that inevitably follows London.

You even suggested a few posts back that the WAG could have introduced quarantine for Welsh people flying into UK airports. How could that possibly work - without the full co-operation of other UK authorities. It is a very useful demonstration of how many holes there are in your assertion that 'responsibility for healthcare rests solely with the Senedd'. In practice there are major limits on how that devolved responsibility can be exercised.

[lisvaneblue]

I think everyone gets it.

They also get that any effective lockdown that the WAG might theoretically have put forward at an earlier stage couldn't have worked without an economic package alongside - and that means the UK government. They also get that the main public health messages received by the Welsh public have come from the UK government. I think that is also the case in Scotland where Nicola Sturgeon has been effective with a Scottish information campaign, but one that inevitably follows London.

You even suggested a few posts back that the WAG could have introduced quarantine for Welsh people flying into UK airports. How could that possibly work - without the full co-operation of other UK authorities. It is a very useful demonstration of how many holes there are in your assertion that 'responsibility for healthcare rests solely with the Senedd'. In practice there are major limits on how that devolved responsibility can be exercised.

Thanks for the balanced response. Under the Public Health act 1984 ( England and Wales)which is specifically about control of infectious diseases WAG could have instructed residents in Wales returning to a UK airport or a Welsh seaport like Pembroke, to quarantine/ self isolate for a period of time once back in their main residence. The same act allows us to stop sporting events, close schools, in fact much of what we term as lockdown. But rightly or not we initially went with a unified approach with the other home nations, and when it didn't work as well as expected in Wales, people like many who have made comments on this board, blamed Westminster, even when Westminster has no authority over healthcare in Wales.

And yes, co-operation is needed with other UK authorities, but the decisions made for Wales are made by the Senedd and they are totally responsible because healthcare is devolved.

We have not led on anything in Wales except maybe being very cautious. We could have because we have the authority to, but sadly we didn't.

[lisvaneblue]

Quick question... Currently, how big is the hole that you've been digging?

Not quite as big as your mouth

[lisvaneblue]

So all the deaths in wales are due to the senedd and you place zero blame on the U.K. government?

let me turn it around. Are the Senedd responsible for any Covid deaths in England, Scotland or N Ireland?

[Croesy Blue]

let me turn it around. Are the Senedd responsible for any Covid deaths in England, Scotland or N Ireland?

No but the U.K. government is, the majority of them.

How can you think that’s a good come back you ****ing berk

[lisvaneblue]

No but the U.K. government is, the majority of them.

How can you think that’s a good come back you ****ing berk

Surely you understand that when it comes to healthcare the UK Gov ie Westminster can only speak for England, as they are only responsible for healthcare in England. The other home nations have taken on the responsibility in their own countries

Or maybe you don't get it

[Croesy Blue]

Surely you understand that when it comes to healthcare the UK Gov ie Westminster can only speak for England, as they are only responsible for healthcare in England. The other home nations have taken on the responsibility in their own countries

Or maybe you don't get it

I do get it and I also get that the reason we had such a high level of deaths has been because the lock down was brought in late and was poorly managed.

The Senedd have been shite. But I don't see how you can absolve the UK Government of any blame at all. It's making you look like a lunatic.

Countries that locked down early had the fewest deaths:

https://www.euronews.com/2020/05/06/...r-eu-countries

https://www.theguardian.com/business...9-league-table

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-new...-toll-21992434

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/113948...mpared-europe/

https://www.ft.com/content/40fc8904-...c-ea3e48bbc034

[Heisenberg]

Not quite as big as your mouth

Still pretty f**king big then?

[lisvaneblue]

I do get it and I also get that the reason we had such a high level of deaths has been because the lock down was brought in late and was poorly managed.

The Senedd have been shite. But I don't see how you can absolve the UK Government of any blame at all. It's making you look like a lunatic.

Countries that locked down early had the fewest deaths:

https://www.euronews.com/2020/05/06/...r-eu-countries

https://www.theguardian.com/business...9-league-table

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-new...-toll-21992434

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/113948...mpared-europe/

https://www.ft.com/content/40fc8904-...c-ea3e48bbc034

Ive had a look at the newspaper references:

The Guardian got it right talking about England not the UK

Overall the papers said:

Not enough preparation...In Wales thats down to the Senedd, yep PPE etc
Slow on testing...............In Wales that's down to the Senedd, and we were worse in UK in getting our act together
Large sporting events taking place.....Only one in Wales which the Senedd could have stopped but didn't. The WRU did though
Schools remain open......In Wales that's down to the Senedd, they had the authority to shut them anytime
Airports Open .......As above, the Senedd could have shut the few that we have, but didn't

So the papers in their general way looked at the UK and UK Gov as if it is in charge of UK healthcare.

But all the things listed above when it comes to Wales healthcare are the responsibility of the Senedd, and they were found wanting.

So please stop giving me all this crap about blaming someone else. You'll be saying next that our schools are due to one this month because the UK gov said so. But no doubt you know that Education too has been devolved and is the responsibility of the Senedd

[Croesy Blue]

So you don't blame the uk government for the number of deaths in wales at all then?

[lisvaneblue]

So you don't blame the uk government for the number of deaths in wales at all then?

Only as much as you'd blame the Senedd for deaths in England

[Croesy Blue]

Only as much as you'd blame the Senedd for deaths in England

Idiot

[trampie09]

I think everyone gets it.

They also get that any effective lockdown that the WAG might theoretically have put forward at an earlier stage couldn't have worked without an economic package alongside - and that means the UK government. They also get that the main public health messages received by the Welsh public have come from the UK government. I think that is also the case in Scotland where Nicola Sturgeon has been effective with a Scottish information campaign, but one that inevitably follows London.

You even suggested a few posts back that the WAG could have introduced quarantine for Welsh people flying into UK airports. How could that possibly work - without the full co-operation of other UK authorities. It is a very useful demonstration of how many holes there are in your assertion that 'responsibility for healthcare rests solely with the Senedd'. In practice there are major limits on how that devolved responsibility can be exercised.

England has typically followed the Celtic countries as regards Covid, I remember putting up a list of actions and dates by the Celts and then the dates that Bojo and the English followed suit.

[xsnaggle]

England has typically followed the Celtic countries as regards Covid, I remember putting up a list of actions and dates by the Celts and then the dates that Bojo and the English followed suit.

That may be because it is agreed in meetings and then the first ministers rush to be the first to announce it, as Ms Sturgeon was accused of ding some time ago. "Looked at me, I'm a lEaDer/

[splott parker]

It’s obvious that the ‘blue’ in Lisvaneblue’s user name is more to do with the colour of his political rosette than his football one. Must be eating at him the Tory shambles that’s enfolding day by day.

[lisvaneblue]

[QUOTE=splott parker;5083242]It’s obvious that the ‘blue’ in Lisvaneblue’s user name is more to do with the colour of his political rosette than his football one. Must be eating at him the Tory shambles that’s enfolding day by day.[/QUOTE

My comments have been to do with healthcare in Wales during the pandemic. It’s been a shambles but the colour to blame is red.

Time and time again posters on this board have had a go about Westminster making a mess of Covid in Wales. Time and time again I point out that healthcare in Wales is run by the Senedd, and Uk Gov runs same in England

My voting colours vary, my football colours have been blue since first game at Ninian in 1952

[lisvaneblue]

Still pretty f**king big then?

Yep, I’ve heard there is plenty of space in your head for the mouth to take up most of it

[Croesy Blue]

But health care isn't the biggest contributer to covid deaths. It's how the lockdown was managed.

[Baloo]

My comments have been to do with healthcare in Wales during the pandemic. It’s been a shambles but the colour to blame is red.

Time and time again posters on this board have had a go about Westminster making a mess of Covid in Wales. Time and time again I point out that healthcare in Wales is run by the Senedd, and Uk Gov runs same in England

My voting colours vary, my football colours have been blue since first game at Ninian in 1952

Fair do's you had a 'mare on here yesterday but it doesn't appear to have dampened your spirits.

[trampie09]

Attachment 3869

Interesting figures, Wales figures the best of the home countries and England's figures the worst.

[lisvaneblue]

But health care isn't the biggest contributer to covid deaths. It's how the lockdown was managed.

Do you honestly believe that Wales, Scotland and N. Ireland weren’t party to discussions on the lockdown and in agreement with what was going to happen and the timing of it.? They would have been first in the queue to complain that the wool was pulled over their eyes etc, but nothing said to disown it.

The lockdown was at the heart of the pandemic healthcare policy...stay at home etc

[trampie09]

Do you honestly believe that Wales, Scotland and N. Ireland weren’t party to discussions on the lockdown and in agreement with what was going to happen and the timing of it.? They would have been first in the queue to complain that the wool was pulled over their eyes etc, but nothing said to disown it.

The lockdown was at the heart of the pandemic healthcare policy...stay at home etc

Sturgeon banned gatherings of over 500 people back in March, Bojo followed suit 4 days later.
Scotland said no new jury trials, England followed suit 6 days later.
Wales announced school closures first, England last.
Wales brought into law that employers had to enforce 2m distancing rule, don't think England have done that.
Wales stopped people going to beauty spots when England still allowed it.

Bojo and England are miles behind the Celts, Sturgeon shows leadership and Bojo follows but unfortunately for England often quite some time behind.