UK Covid-19 death figures

[lisvaneblue]

Bumped for lisvaneblue.

This supports what I’ve been saying all along. Healthcare, which of course includes the public health management of this pandemic in UK is devolved to the home countries. Each can do its own thing in its own time. Sometimes they have worked collaboratively and other times independently
What’s the issue?

[trampie09]

This supports what I’ve been saying all along. Healthcare, which of course includes the public health management of this pandemic in UK is devolved to the home countries. Each can do its own thing in its own time. Sometimes they have worked collaboratively and other times independently
What’s the issue?

My post was in response to your post where you seemed to suggest that Wales, Scotland and N.Ireland was in agreement with what was going to happen and the timing of it, that does seem the case as major decisions were taken in many cases by the devolved administrations either solely or well before England did.

[lisvaneblue]

My post was in response to your post where you seemed to suggest that Wales, Scotland and N.Ireland was in agreement with what was going to happen and the timing of it, that does seem the case as major decisions were taken in many cases by the devolved administrations either solely or well before England did.

And the post you refer to stemmed from comments on this board that UK Gov was running the show via the Covid Act and finances linked to it.

We both agree that the responsibility for healthcare in Wales is devolved to the Senedd who can do what they want when they want in the interest of the health of the population of Wales

[lisvaneblue]

Lisvane blue loves the tories more than I love anything in my life, I admire the dedication. He isn’t just licking the boots he’s deep throating them. An inspiration to us all.

Croesy Blue, what a load of absolute twaddle. If you're still taking the tablets, I suggest you stop.

[trampie09]

And the post you refer to stemmed from comments on this board that UK Gov was running the show via the Covid Act and finances linked to it.

We both agree that the responsibility for healthcare in Wales is devolved to the Senedd who can do what they want when they want in the interest of the health of the population of Wales

They were not in agreement and certainly not in agreement over the timings of introducing measures, you clearly have that wrong.

As regards health being devolved it's crumbs off the table, the English don't pay for their old people that come here putting a strain on our services, calculations assume a head is a head is a head but that is not the case as some people are young and health and will often not need the health service at that stage but old people are more likely to need the health service and then there is the expense of providing rural services which needs to be taken into account, just a head count is not good enough.

[The Lone Gunman]

Perhaps a welsh one was planned , you and I dont know that detail.....

Unsurprisingly (although no doubt this news will stun you), the letter and the enclosed guidance leaflet arrived in English and Welsh.

[The Lone Gunman]

Probably because he is PM of UK and felt the need to communicate to 30 million households to emphasise the importance of the stay at home message.

Exactly. So just stop. Please, just stop.

[lisvaneblue]

Exactly. So just stop. Please, just stop.

Now now, you can't just pick the bits you like, or you might miss the point. After all you have in the past

[CCFCC3PO]

This supports what I’ve been saying all along. Healthcare, which of course includes the public health management of this pandemic in UK is devolved to the home countries. Each can do its own thing in its own time. Sometimes they have worked collaboratively and other times independently
What’s the issue?

I sort of switched off half way through your balanced support of the Tory Government, and criticism of the Labour Welsh Assembly, but are you still saying Wales could have locked down before England?

[lisvaneblue]

They were not in agreement and certainly not in agreement over the timings of introducing measures, you clearly have that wrong.

As regards health being devolved it's crumbs off the table, the English don't pay for their old people that come here putting a strain on our services, calculations assume a head is a head is a head but that is not the case as some people are young and health and will often not need the health service at that stage but old people are more likely to need the health service and then there is the expense of providing rural services which needs to be taken into account, just a head count is not good enough.

When the lockdown was introduced on 23 March it was UK wide, which is why I said that all parties must have agreed to it. The messages were simple....Stay at home except for ....shopping for essentials etc etc. After that initial blanket directive tweaks and differences occurred through each of the home countries as you said.

[The Lone Gunman]

Now now, you can't just pick the bits you like, or you might miss the point. After all you have in the past

Your point (if it can be described as such) is complete and utter twaddle. Absolute nonsense. Your bold assertion that the UK government bears absolutely no responsibility for the way in which the Covid-19 pandemic has been handled in Wales is so stupid that only an utter idiot could seriously propose it.

[lisvaneblue]

I sort of switched off half way through your balanced support of the Tory Government, and criticism of the Labour Welsh Assembly, but are you still saying Wales could have locked down before England?

Have a look at the Public Health Act 1984 which covers control of infectious diseases. It's a big document and includes many of the things that we talk of as Lockdown. Wales can and maybe should have used parts of the Act early on.
Posters have mentioned that the Covid Act 2020 included financial provision for the Lockdown, which could have stopped Wales moving forward independently.

[lisvaneblue]

Your point (if it can be described as such) is complete and utter twaddle. Absolute nonsense. Your bold assertion that the UK government bears absolutely no responsibility for the way in which the Covid-19 pandemic has been handled in Wales is so stupid that only an utter idiot could seriously propose it.

What bit about healthcare devolution do you not understand?

[CCFCC3PO]

Have a look at the Public Health Act 1984 which covers control of infectious diseases. It's a big document and includes many of the things that we talk of as Lockdown. Wales can and maybe should have used parts of the Act early on.
Posters have mentioned that the Covid Act 2020 included financial provision for the Lockdown, which could have stopped Wales moving forward independently.

So you are still saying Wales could have instigated a lock-down earlier.

[trampie09]

When the lockdown was introduced on 23 March it was UK wide, which is why I said that all parties must have agreed to it. The messages were simple....Stay at home except for ....shopping for essentials etc etc. After that initial blanket directive tweaks and differences occurred through each of the home countries as you said.

Banning gatherings of over 500 people, stopping new jury trials, enforcing employers to adhere to 2m social distancing are not merely tweaks, they are major policy differences even if England did eventually follow some of them.

[The Lone Gunman]

What bit about healthcare devolution do you not understand?

I understand about healthcare devolution.

I also understand that the UK government has, somewhat unsurprisingly, been central and pivotal to the policies that have been implemented throughout the UK to tackle Covid-19. I understand that the public in Wales and throughout the rest of the UK have been guided as much by the UK government in Westminster as they have by the devolved administrations, regardless of where in the UK they live. It is why a daily UK government briefing hosted by either the UK Prime Minister or another high-ranking UK government cabinet minister has been beamed live into our homes every day since the middle of March. It's why the UK Prime Minister sent every household in the UK a letter and a leaflet outlining the UK Government's pandemic guidance. It's why the UK Prime Minister has made several televised addresses to the whole of the UK during the pandemic and it's why an important news conference involving the UK Prime Minister's controversial top advisor was beamed live into homes throughout the UK.

You don't seem to understand those things at all.

[Harry Paget Flashman]

When the lockdown was introduced on 23 March it was UK wide, which is why I said that all parties must have agreed to it. The messages were simple....Stay at home except for ....shopping for essentials etc etc. After that initial blanket directive tweaks and differences occurred through each of the home countries as you said.

The UK Govt were too slow to act.

They introduced COVID19 legislation on the 10th February but we never went into lockdown for over a month after that. If that had acted sooner many lives would have been saved.

As for the Public Health Act 1984 there's a few issues with that:

1. It doesn't apply in Scotland and NI.
2. It acts as a vehicle for the Sec of State to make regulations such as those passed this year to halt the Coronavirus outbreak. It alone does not provide powers for authorities to do what they've done since the regulations were passed in March.

[Pearcey3]

England have the highest number of excess deaths amongst the home nations. Wales the lowest. Presumably Lisvane Blue is aware of this.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

So you are still saying Wales could have instigated a lock-down earlier.

If that's what he's saying then he has to disagree with the UK Government's handling of this.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

England have the highest number of excess deaths amongst the home nations. Wales the lowest. Presumably Lisvane Blue is aware of this.

That's no surprise given the size of the population in each home nation. Perhaps you meant rate rather than number.

[lardy]

That's no surprise given the size of the population in each home nation. Perhaps you meant rate rather than number.

Yeah I'd be pretty worried if Wales didn't have a low number by comparison.

[lisvaneblue]

The UK Govt were too slow to act.

They introduced COVID19 legislation on the 10th February but we never went into lockdown for over a month after that. If that had acted sooner many lives would have been saved.

As for the Public Health Act 1984 there's a few issues with that:

1. It doesn't apply in Scotland and NI.
2. It acts as a vehicle for the Sec of State to make regulations such as those passed this year to halt the Coronavirus outbreak. It alone does not provide powers for authorities to do what they've done since the regulations were passed in March.

Covid Act 2020 became law 25 March

Public Health 1984 act applied Wales and England, so Wales could use it any time. Other home countries accomodated by the Covid Act. Its an act in its own right, and a powerful at that.

[lisvaneblue]

England have the highest number of excess deaths amongst the home nations. Wales the lowest. Presumably Lisvane Blue is aware of this.

Any death related to this virus is bad news. Wales does have some of the highest rates of the virus per capita in the UK, which again. is bad news

[lisvaneblue]

I understand about healthcare devolution.

I also understand that the UK government has, somewhat unsurprisingly, been central and pivotal to the policies that have been implemented throughout the UK to tackle Covid-19. I understand that the public in Wales and throughout the rest of the UK have been guided as much by the UK government in Westminster as they have by the devolved administrations, regardless of where in the UK they live. It is why a daily UK government briefing hosted by either the UK Prime Minister or another high-ranking UK government cabinet minister has been beamed live into our homes every day since the middle of March. It's why the UK Prime Minister sent every household in the UK a letter and a leaflet outlining the UK Government's pandemic guidance. It's why the UK Prime Minister has made several televised addresses to the whole of the UK during the pandemic and it's why an important news conference involving the UK Prime Minister's controversial top advisor was beamed live into homes throughout the UK.

You don't seem to understand those things at all.

I understand all of the above and not disputing any of it. If Wales government wants to work in tandem with Westminster or any other home country, allow letters, and other communication to take place in a unified approach such co-operation is to be applauded. So UK Gov is very influential but not directly responsible for the health of the people of Wales.

[trampie09]

I understand all of the above and not disputing any of it. If Wales government wants to work in tandem with Westminster or any other home country, allow letters, and other communication to take place in a unified approach such co-operation is to be applauded. So UK Gov is very influential but not directly responsible for the health of the people of Wales.

Dishes out the pocket money at below the going rate which limits what that pocket money can be spent on.