UK Covid-19 death figures

[lisvaneblue]

I don't understand why anyone would be trying so hard to absolve the government of all blame.

I’m not trying to absolve the government of all blame. It’s record is not good when it comes to Covid. What I’m saying is that Healthcare in Wales is devolved to the Senedd, so the Senedd is responsible, not Westminster. Parliament might influence but the decisions rest with the Senedd. Surely it’s not that difficult to understand
I’ve been at the stadium when we lose and everyone blames the ref. The ref may influence but the responsibility for getting a result rests with the team and manager....same as above

[lardy]

I’m not trying to absolve the government of all blame. It’s record is not good when it comes to Covid. What I’m saying is that Healthcare in Wales is devolved to the Senedd, so the Senedd is responsible, not Westminster. Parliament might influence but the decisions rest with the Senedd. Surely it’s not that difficult to understand
I’ve been at the stadium when we lose and everyone blames the ref. The ref may influence but the responsibility for getting a result rests with the team and manager....same as above

You said:

I agree the figures in Wales are terrible, but don't agree that we can blame the UK Government in part.

Isn't that absolving the government of all blame?

[Croesy Blue]

Jesus Lisvaneblue you’re not supposed to deep throat the boot

[Croesy Blue]

At the end of the day the Senedd is 100% responsible for healthcare in Wales. Westminster has no responsibility for it at all.

Decisions or lack of, following or working with the other home nations, going it alone are down to the Senedd. I’m not defending Boris, just saying that in Wales it,s our governments responsibility not his

But the majority of deaths were caused because the whole of the U.K. didn’t lockdown soon enough. Were wales able to do that without parliament agreeing?

[Baloo]

Didn’t Wales, like the rest of the UK, require The Coronavirus Act before it could introduce any of the emergency powers associated with lockdown? This was passed by UK parliament on 23 March.

I thought this act evolved lockdown powers at the same time so Wales couldn’t actually have locked down independently before this. Might be wrong as live in England now so not close to Senedd activities tbh.

[lisvaneblue]

Didn’t Wales, like the rest of the UK, require The Coronavirus Act before it could introduce any of the emergency powers associated with lockdown? This was passed by UK parliament on 23 March.

I thought this act evolved lockdown powers at the same time so Wales couldn’t actually have locked down independently before this. Might be wrong as live in England now so not close to Senedd activities tbh.

Most of the key things related to control of infectious diseases are covered in the Public Health Act 1984, covering England and Wales
The powers are very wide ranging indeed, and I would guess includes the equivalent of what we call lockdown, although I haven’t read the detail of this very large act

[Harry Paget Flashman]

Most of the key things related to control of infectious diseases are covered in the Public Health Act 1984, covering England and Wales
The powers are very wide ranging indeed, and I would guess includes the equivalent of what we call lockdown, although I haven’t read the detail of this very large act

It doesn't have the range of powers enabled by the The Coronavirus Act 2020 (Commencement No. 1) (Wales) Regulations 2020.

So Wales could not lockdown until Westminster decided.

[lisvaneblue]

It doesn't have the range of powers enabled by the The Coronavirus Act 2020 (Commencement No. 1) (Wales) Regulations 2020.

So Wales could not lockdown until Westminster decided.

My original comments stemmed from the fact that people disagreed with my comments that the Senedd is solely responsible for healthcare in Wales, therefore don't blame UK gov for the mess we are in in Wales with very high incidence, general lack of testing, variable tracking, escalating variances with other home nations etc

The 2020 Covid Act is a temporary UK wide act that sorts out some of the nitty gritty around the handling of the pandemic in the UK.

The main Act in Wales and England for control of infectious diseases is the Public Health Act 1984. It has wide ranging powers that the Senedd could have acted upon way ahead of the March lockdown. For example control of travel, airports and ports, control of schools, and just about anything else needed to halt the spread of an infectious disease.

What we did in Wales was go along with a UK wide uniform approach that initially was one of 'herd immunity', then, and some say too late, the lockdown
I understand that going it alone with a lockdown may not have been that effective,( although we seem to be doing just that now compared to our near neighbours), and the issue of finance must have influenced things.

But there was plenty we could have done under the 1984 act without closing down industry but we didn't. Right or wrong is not what Im directly concerned about. My message all along has been that Healthcare is a devolved matter and the Senedd is solely responsible for its actions. The other home countries Im sure discuss and influence our Welsh healthcare politicians and professional advisors, but the responsibility and consequences for actions rest with the Senedd

[life on mars]

Testing and lockdown timings I'm sure are likely to be key in the review in both England and Wales, Welsh Assembly had the ability to act differently ,as they are now ,where is the testing now in Wales ??

[Dorcus]

Explains why the Conservatives are still polling at forty per cent plus even after Dominic Cummings' eye test - some people still think Brexit is the most important thing out there at the moment it seems.

Too true and the other thing is..once a Tory, always Tory; I'm alright Jack

[CCFCC3PO]

This is what a country "in control" looks like.

https://www.ekathimerini.com/253318/...or-coronavirus

12 passengers on a single flight from Qatar to Athens tested positive. As a result, Greece have banned flights from Qatar for 2 weeks.

Greece have 2,937 cases. They have recorded 179 deaths. The UK has recorded more cases every single day in the period Mar 31 - May 17. The UK also recorded more deaths every single day between March 24th and May 24th.

While I agree we cannot really compare countries because of different methods of recording, it would take an incredible covering act for Greece to be disguising just how they controlled the virus. This in a country where, like Spain and Italy, "touchy" greetings, large family meals, kids staying with grandparents are common place.

Population of Greece is circa 11m. 21.66% are over 65

UK population is 6 times that of Greece. Number of people who have died, about 200 times more.

Remember, Greece is in a mountain of debt. It was, supposedly, screwed over by the EU. It's main industry is tourism.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ter-150-deaths

[lisvaneblue]

This is what a country "in control" looks like.

https://www.ekathimerini.com/253318/...or-coronavirus

12 passengers on a single flight from Qatar to Athens tested positive. As a result, Greece have banned flights from Qatar for 2 weeks.

Greece have 2,937 cases. They have recorded 179 deaths. The UK has recorded more cases every single day in the period Mar 31 - May 17. The UK also recorded more deaths every single day between March 24th and May 24th.

While I agree we cannot really compare countries because of different methods of recording, it would take an incredible covering act for Greece to be disguising just how they controlled the virus. This in a country where, like Spain and Italy, "touchy" greetings, large family meals, kids staying with grandparents are common place.

Population of Greece is circa 11m. 21.66% are over 65

UK population is 6 times that of Greece. Number of people who have died, about 200 times more.

Remember, Greece is in a mountain of debt. It was, supposedly, screwed over by the EU. It's main industry is tourism.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ter-150-deaths

I’ve got family in Greece. They really hit lockdown hard. Stay at home, only leave if you have a letter or e mail authorising it. Return home ASAP, text to the police to confirm you are back home

[CCFCC3PO]

I’ve got family in Greece. They really hit lockdown hard. Stay at home, only leave if you have a letter or e mail authorising it. Return home ASAP, text to the police to confirm you are back home

It's paying dividends. Did they "furlough" workers, out of interest?

[lisvaneblue]

It's paying dividends. Did they "furlough" workers, out of interest?

Not that I’ve heard, but a lot of unemployment anyhow.

[Vindec]

Given the relatively low population of Wales North of Merthyr, and given that the populations of Mid and small parts of North Wales attend English hospitals, the figures in Wales are probably worse than the figures indicate as many Mid Wales deaths in hospitals particularly have probably been recorded in England and appear in the English figures. (As many will know deaths are recorded at the place of death and not where the patient resides.) Also testing is relatively low in Wales meaning far fewer cases of those suffering from COVID-19 are recorded and cannot appear in the stats.

https://www.walesdeanery.org/corpora...-locations-map

[Baloo]

Didn’t Wales, like the rest of the UK, require The Coronavirus Act before it could introduce any of the emergency powers associated with lockdown? This was passed by UK parliament on 23 March.

I thought this act evolved lockdown powers at the same time so Wales couldn’t actually have locked down independently before this. Might be wrong as live in England now so not close to Senedd activities tbh.

Meant devolved not evolved

[life on mars]

Wales certainly could have made its own health rules , it even has its own medical officer

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Wales certainly could have made its own health rules , it even has its own medical officer

Does it have all the expert medical advice available to Westminster, or alternatively available only to Wales? Be careful with your reply.

[Croesy Blue]

Exactly.

They couldn’t have, which is why he ignored when I asked.

This state was caused by a stupidly late lockdown, I don’t think wales have been perfect but their message has been a lot more clear.

[goats]

They couldn’t have, which is why he ignored when I asked.

This state was caused by a stupidly late lockdown, I don’t think wales have been perfect but their message has been a lot more clear.

Hindsight and all that. No one seemed to care so much mid March, it just got very serious all of a sudden. Rugby and our match with Leeds was on until the last minute almost, some 45000 people left the uk to go ski ing in the alps mid March, all of which were pointless as all the slopes closed as they arrived....if the public were so adamant for a quicker lockdown we could have shouted about it then, but we didn’t at all.

[Baloo]

How were Wales supposed to enter lockdown before the UK Govt. introduced the job retention scheme and also the means for businesses and the self-employed to apply for help so that they could be financially secure during said lockdown? Seriously lisvaneblue, you seem to have an answer for everything - so I'm sure you've got something for us regarding this question.

Yes, this bit I think was incorporated into The Coronavirus Act passed on 23rd March, which included the £12bn business assistance budget and a range of very specific new and amended legislation necessary to support a national lockdown in practice.

[Croesy Blue]

My original comments stemmed from the fact that people disagreed with my comments that the Senedd is solely responsible for healthcare in Wales, therefore don't blame UK gov for the mess we are in in Wales with very high incidence, general lack of testing, variable tracking, escalating variances with other home nations etc

The 2020 Covid Act is a temporary UK wide act that sorts out some of the nitty gritty around the handling of the pandemic in the UK.

The main Act in Wales and England for control of infectious diseases is the Public Health Act 1984. It has wide ranging powers that the Senedd could have acted upon way ahead of the March lockdown. For example control of travel, airports and ports, control of schools, and just about anything else needed to halt the spread of an infectious disease.

What we did in Wales was go along with a UK wide uniform approach that initially was one of 'herd immunity', then, and some say too late, the lockdown
I understand that going it alone with a lockdown may not have been that effective,( although we seem to be doing just that now compared to our near neighbours), and the issue of finance must have influenced things.

But there was plenty we could have done under the 1984 act without closing down industry but we didn't. Right or wrong is not what Im directly concerned about. My message all along has been that Healthcare is a devolved matter and the Senedd is solely responsible for its actions. The other home countries Im sure discuss and influence our Welsh healthcare politicians and professional advisors, but the responsibility and consequences for actions rest with the Senedd

No it stemmed from you saying we can’t attribute blame to the U.K. government for the deaths in wales.

[lisvaneblue]

No it stemmed from you saying we can’t attribute blame to the U.K. government for the deaths in wales.

That's splitting hairs, you get my drift. If the Senedd is responsible for calling the healthcare shots, its responsible for the consequences

[Croesy Blue]

That's splitting hairs, you get my drift. If the Senedd is responsible for calling the healthcare shots, its responsible for the consequences

But the majority of deaths were caused by lock down not happening early enough.

Even knowing that fact you think we can’t blame the U.K. government?

[lisvaneblue]

But the majority of deaths were caused by lock down not happening early enough.

Even knowing that fact you think we can’t blame the U.K. government?

Wales decided to go along with a uniform UK approach that started as one of herd immunity. It could have done things differently re the 1984 act, but choose to stay with a UK approach.