Protesting, and the power of the media.

[A Quiet Monkfish]

I saw a photo of the Liverpool players in a circle on bended knees, apparently as a protests against the death of George Floyd. A nice gesture and shows us all what a kind, caring bunch of young men they are.

But I wondered, why does no-one - least of all footballers, celebrities, the BBC, some mainstream newspapers, why not the slightest protest against the Chinese.

What's happening in China is a massive affront to humanity. Forget HK and Huawei for the moment - this is a Country that has imprisoned a whole race of people, chained them up in groups of 10 in tiny cells, a bucket for a wc, whilst they are re-educated over a period of up to 20 yrs. Children included. Harvested their organs for transplants, wiped out languages, and that's before Tibet, Taiwan, and Vietnam.

Perhaps it's the media. There are no 'pictures' from China to get angry about. But when I saw those Liverpool players in the centre circle I wondered if they even knew where China was.

[Croesy Blue]

I'd never even thought of that, it's a good point. The reeducation camps seem to get very little news, especially inside China where everything is carefully managed by the Government with regards to the media.

[Heisenberg]

I think it's always been the case to be honest. In the UK we get fed what happens in 'the west' and everywhere else gets barely a second look.

It's not right, but I don't think it's going to change any time soon.

As you say, the atrocities in China deserve far more condemnation and I'd like to see it in the media more too.

[Whisperer]

I don't think it's all media to be honest people are selective and protesting against china is not as fashionable and cool has following the good ole US of A, if black lives really matter then the british black community should be out in their masses over gun / knife murder over the last ten years.

[delmbox]

I don't think it's all media to be honest people are selective and protesting against china is not as fashionable and cool has following the good ole US of A, if black lives really matter then the british black community should be out in their masses over gun / knife murder over the last ten years.

The masses don't tend to protest at crimes within society, they protest at crimes committed by the state, by those who's duty it is to protect them and uphold their interests. It's why you see mass outcry about people in power breaking lockdown rules but civilian individuals are not usually shamed.

To write a sentence along the lines of "if black lives really matter then it should be proven to me by XXXX" is pretty shameful to be honest. Black lives do matter, your whattaboutery at its worst doesn't change that.

[Croesy Blue]

The masses don't tend to protest at crimes within society, they protest at crimes committed by the state, by those who's duty it is to protect them and uphold their interests. It's why you see mass outcry about people in power breaking lockdown rules but civilian individuals are not usually shamed.

To write a sentence along the lines of "if black lives really matter then it should be proven to me by XXXX" is pretty shameful to be honest. Black lives do matter, your whattaboutery at its worst doesn't change that.

I agree that last line comes across as pretty disingenuous at best.

[Whisperer]

The masses don't tend to protest at crimes within society, they protest at crimes committed by the state, by those who's duty it is to protect them and uphold their interests. It's why you see mass outcry about people in power breaking lockdown rules but civilian individuals are not usually shamed.

To write a sentence along the lines of "if black lives really matter then it should be proven to me by XXXX" is pretty shameful to be honest. Black lives do matter, your whattaboutery at its worst doesn't change that.

I didn't come up with the black lives matter slogan that's not down to me, the point I was trying to make was why protest in the UK right now for George Floyd when we have a couple of black lives every week being stabbed and killed.
Also we're in a global pandemic of the likes we have never seen, so right now more than ever life matters, the last thing we need is thousands turning up and grouping together, it's a little contradictory.

[delmbox]

I didn't come up with the black lives matter slogan that's not down to me, the point I was trying to make was why protest in the UK right now for George Floyd when we have a couple of black lives every week being stabbed and killed.
Also we're in a global pandemic of the likes we have never seen, so right now more than ever life matters, the last thing we need is thousands turning up and grouping together, it's a little contradictory.

The question I think you need to ask yourself is when you see a group of people protesting because they're clearly angry and upset about something, why your reaction is to think of "what about, what about" reasons why they shouldn't, rather than thinking about why they are.

[lardy]

I don't think it's all media to be honest people are selective and protesting against china is not as fashionable and cool has following the good ole US of A, if black lives really matter then the british black community should be out in their masses over gun / knife murder over the last ten years.

So your conclusion is that black lives don't matter? Trying to work out where you're going with that.

[delmbox]

I saw a photo of the Liverpool players in a circle on bended knees, apparently as a protests against the death of George Floyd. A nice gesture and shows us all what a kind, caring bunch of young men they are.

But I wondered, why does no-one - least of all footballers, celebrities, the BBC, some mainstream newspapers, why not the slightest protest against the Chinese.

What's happening in China is a massive affront to humanity. Forget HK and Huawei for the moment - this is a Country that has imprisoned a whole race of people, chained them up in groups of 10 in tiny cells, a bucket for a wc, whilst they are re-educated over a period of up to 20 yrs. Children included. Harvested their organs for transplants, wiped out languages, and that's before Tibet, Taiwan, and Vietnam.

Perhaps it's the media. There are no 'pictures' from China to get angry about. But when I saw those Liverpool players in the centre circle I wondered if they even knew where China was.

You make fair points, I'd imagine it's got quite a lot do to with recognition. In the same way as what happened on 9/11 had such a big impact here even though more people than that die in terrorist attacks in the Middle East and elsewhere, it's easier to relate to the victims in the US. So, in terms of for example Liverpool - they have black players, black fans, black friends, I doubt any of them has ever met an Uyghur Muslim in their life so what's happening seems more "over there"

That doesn't make it right though, what's going on in China is utterly disgraceful and there should be a consistent international outcry about it

[The Lone Gunman]

I saw a photo of the Liverpool players in a circle on bended knees, apparently as a protests against the death of George Floyd. A nice gesture and shows us all what a kind, caring bunch of young men they are.

But I wondered, why does no-one - least of all footballers, celebrities, the BBC, some mainstream newspapers, why not the slightest protest against the Chinese.

I'm amazed you have to ask this question. From the point of view of your average UK citizen, do you think the two situations are even remotely comparable?

The fact is that pretty much everybody in the UK watches American films, watches American television, listens to American music, reads American books, watches American sports, etc. Whether we like it or not, we have a shared culture to a large degree. We speak the same language. According to our politicians, the two countries have a special relationship.

The history of racism in America is very well-documented. Pretty much everyone in this country is aware of it or at least aware of certain aspects of it.

Blatantly obviously, China and the Chinese people in general are a very different proposition as far as the average British citizen is concerned.

[A Quiet Monkfish]

I'm amazed you have to ask this question. From the point of view of your average UK citizen, do you think the two situations are even remotely comparable?

The fact is that pretty much everybody in the UK watches American films, watches American television, listens to American music, reads American books, watches American sports, etc. Whether we like it or not, we have a shared culture to a large degree. We speak the same language. According to our politicians, the two countries have a special relationship.

The history of racism in America is very well-documented. Pretty much everyone in this country is aware of it or at least aware of certain aspects of it.

Blatantly obviously, China and the Chinese people in general are a very different proposition as far as the average British citizen is concerned.

We buy, use, utilize, Chinese goods and services every second of our lives. In the real, tangible sense China is more real to our everyday lives than the USA. You mentioned 'watch, read, listens etc..'. That's exactly, 100% the point I was making - "the power of the media "..

[The Lone Gunman]

We buy, use, utilize, Chinese goods and services every second of our lives. In the real, tangible sense China is more real to our everyday lives than the USA. You mentioned 'watch, read, listens etc..'. That's exactly, 100% the point I was making - "the power of the media "..

It's got nothing to do with the power of the media. It's got everything to do with the way in which British culture is intertwined with American culture, and has been for centuries.

[Wales-Bales]

It's got nothing to do with the power of the media. It's got everything to do with the way in which British culture is intertwined with American culture, and has been for centuries.

He clearly mentioned the BBC and mainstream newspapers, and that is where most people get their information that informs their opinions and view of the world..

[The Lone Gunman]

He clearly mentioned the BBC and mainstream newspapers, and that is where most people get their information that informs their opinions and view of the world..

Most people? That's debatable, but for the sake of argument let's say it's true. It still wasn't the question he asked, which was: "Why does no-one - least of all footballers, celebrities, the BBC, some mainstream newspapers..... protest against the Chinese."

He seems to believe it's down to "the power of the media." I don't agree at all. I believe it has far more to do with shared history, culture and identity.

[NYCBlue]

I can certainly sympathise but there's much more to protest about in the UK than George Floyd.

[life on mars]

We buy, use, utilize, Chinese goods and services every second of our lives. In the real, tangible sense China is more real to our everyday lives than the USA. You mentioned 'watch, read, listens etc..'. That's exactly, 100% the point I was making - "the power of the media "..

Yes and one could well argue the Chinese record on human rights freedom of speach it's as bad or worse than the awful racism in the USA, no big protests though, even when you see what will soon be imposed on Hong Kong freedoms

[goats]

Yes and one could well argue the Chinese record on human rights freedom of speach it's as bad or worse than the awful racism in the USA, no big protests though, even when you see what will soon be imposed on Hong Kong freedoms

I’ve been wondering about HK lately. Surely China have to abide by the terms of the handover agreement written in 1997? I can’t see how they think they can get away with it.

[CCFCC3PO]

I’ve been wondering about HK lately. Surely China have to abide by the terms of the handover agreement written in 1997? I can’t see how they think they can get away with it.

What were the terms?

[goats]

What were the terms?

I don’t know but surely it was to continue roughly the way it was with 1 country 2 systems or whatever they call it. No doubt protesters in HK will start to disappear in the next few years.....

[xsnaggle]

I’ve been wondering about HK lately. Surely China have to abide by the terms of the handover agreement written in 1997? I can’t see how they think they can get away with it.

Why? They don't take any notice of much else if it doesn't suit them. If they choose not to take notice who is going to do anything about it really?

[Taunton Blue Genie]

I’ve been wondering about HK lately. Surely China have to abide by the terms of the handover agreement written in 1997? I can’t see how they think they can get away with it.

What is to stop them?

[goats]

What is to stop them?

I know....you wonder if lots of countries will go against them on this though, didn’t lots already start something? What they did to the peaceful people of Tibet is one thing, HK is a different kettle of fish no? Maybe it’s time to stop doing business with China to force them to conform? If this virus has taught us anything surely it’s we should be making more stuff here now and not relying on importing it from the other side of the world. I’m not saying any of this is easy, but we have to start somewhere.

[Croesy Blue]

Yes and one could well argue the Chinese record on human rights freedom of speach it's as bad or worse than the awful racism in the USA, no big protests though, even when you see what will soon be imposed on Hong Kong freedoms

So they’re both protests on freedoms, so why is one ok and the other not?

[life on mars]

So they’re both protests on freedoms, so why is one ok and the other not?

I would politely disagree in HK case it's about authoritarian law being imposed by China in breach of international law. In the USA its poor police standards and racism ,which is unlawful but not carried out by a government on all of it's people as in the way China is too Hong Kong .

I'm not saying any looting or rioting is okay and you can see a lot of the protests in Hong Kong are much more peaceful and restrained unlike in the USA where the yst cause is being highjacked by thugs in the name of black lives matter ,to me this us the distinct difference.

Any peaceful protest is fine as long as its purposes is really meaningful and well intended , kicking shopkeepers to a pulp , burning property isn't so meaningful for me.