Fawlty Towers episode reinstated by UKTV.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Alf Garnett was a racist east ender played by Warren Mitchell, a jewish londoner

It was deliberately written to portray alf Garnett as a racist

Warren Mitchell was on a train in london once and this white bloke said to him I love the way you take the piss out of blacks and asians on that show

Mitchell said I am an immigrant and the people I am taking the piss out of is racists like you

There is a thin line between clever and stupid

[ToTaL ITK]

Alf Garnett was a sharp and witty satire that had a go at everyone and he always came out worse off.
Love they Neighbour was your average sitcom with hardly any comedy value at all.
As a kid i hated the black and white minstral show ...."why were these men trying to look black but sing like a church choir" i thought.
what were they thinking with that show.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Sensible outcome - although I thought this was always what UKTV suspended the episode to consider: either editing out the Major's racist lines (as Cleese himself agreed in 2013 for the BBC repeats) or adding a 'warning' message at the start as is used for so many other (often older comedy) programmes. In the end we get the unedited episode available through that source, but a recognition that public attitudes have evolved and the broadcasters recognise that.

Those sort of messages have to be selective though, or they become intrusive or meaningless. Some channels seem to start every programme with a warning about sex scenes, upsetting scenes, offensive language or something else (though rarely violence).

I always check for a sex scene warning before a programme. If there isn't one, I don't bother watching it.

[jon1959]

I always check for a sex scene warning before a programme. If there isn't one, I don't bother watching it.

Channel 4's red triangles in the mid 80s were the best - always guaranteed an interesting late evening!!!

[MacAdder]

Hardly a cop out, the racism of Alf Garnett was being mocked.

I am not doubting the fact he was mocked.
You can't deny that he was allowed to say some very offensive things to a massive audience, many who took his side.

[MacAdder]

Alf Garnett was a racist east ender played by Warren Mitchell, a jewish londoner

It was deliberately written to portray alf Garnett as a racist

Agree.
The same could be said about Jack Smethurst's Eddie Booth except it was set up north.
There are stark similarities in both programmes.

[splott parker]

Agree.
The same could be said about Jack Smethurst's Eddie Booth except it was set up north.
There are stark similarities in both programmes.

Love Thy Neighbour was set in London, Twickenham actually.

[BLUETIT]

Love Thy Neighbour was set in London, Twickenham actually.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?clie...ile-gws-wiz-hp

[ccfc_is_my_life]

I am not doubting the fact he was mocked.
You can't deny that he was allowed to say some very offensive things to a massive audience, many who took his side.

I doubt anybody was influenced to be racist because a TV character was racist. Given he always came out on the losing side being outsmarted by a "savage", it's imo silly. If he was presented as a likeable chap, giving the impression that his views were acceptable then I'd agree... but that's the complete opposite.

If the view is that those words should be banned in all circumstances, then it raises a large number of issues.

1) Documentaries of far right groups, exposing their racism would be banned.
2) Other offensive language would also have to be banned; documentaries showing the extent of and build up to Holocaust would also be banned.
3) Fictional TV gets affected - police drama showing racist being arrested, tried, jailed - banned due to the language.

I'm not defending the language, don't get me wrong. I'm just saying it's far more nuanced than offensive / non-offensive and removing context is fairly draconian

[trampie09]

I personally wasn't offended by Garnett and thought the show was well written and I felt guilty about laughing at it and enjoying it but I have to say I used to cringe at the things he used to say which must have been very offensive to a lot of people.

[MacAdder]

I personally wasn't offended by Garnett and thought the show was well written and I felt guilty about laughing at it and enjoying it but I have to say I used to cringe at the things he used to say which must have been very offensive to a lot of people.

Exactly

[trampie09]

I doubt anybody was influenced to be racist because a TV character was racist. Given he always came out on the losing side being outsmarted by a "savage", it's imo silly. If he was presented as a likeable chap, giving the impression that his views were acceptable then I'd agree... but that's the complete opposite.

If the view is that those words should be banned in all circumstances, then it raises a large number of issues.

1) Documentaries of far right groups, exposing their racism would be banned.
2) Other offensive language would also have to be banned; documentaries showing the extent of and build up to Holocaust would also be banned.
3) Fictional TV gets affected - police drama showing racist being arrested, tried, jailed - banned due to the language.

I'm not defending the language, don't get me wrong. I'm just saying it's far more nuanced than offensive / non-offensive and removing context is fairly draconian

Personally I think it could have encouraged racism, people could be influenced to think that behaviour was ok.

[Moodybluebird]

Personally I think it could have encouraged racism, people could be influenced to think that behaviour was ok.

Sorry, don't agree with you mate and I was around at the time. The main character was not someone you admired. Anyone with half a brain knew that Alf Garnett was a hopeless racist bigot who spouted bile intended to shock. Even his long suffering family struggled to put up with him. The intention was to highlight bigotry that was far more prevalent than it is now not give someone a platform on which to galvanise a very small section of society.

[ccfc_is_my_life]

Sorry, don't agree with you mate and I was around at the time. The main character was not someone you admired. Anyone with half a brain knew that Alf Garnett was a hopeless racist bigot who spouted bile intended to shock. Even his long suffering family struggled to put up with him. The intention was to highlight bigotry that was far more prevalent than it is now not give someone a platform on which to galvanise a very small section of society.

Indeed.

It wasn't as if he was a nice guy who happened to be racist, he was a shit to his family too... I don't understand anybody who claims that behavoiur, either to family or the racism was anywhere near close to ok or as presented as being so.

[trampie09]

Sorry, don't agree with you mate and I was around at the time. The main character was not someone you admired. Anyone with half a brain knew that Alf Garnett was a hopeless racist bigot who spouted bile intended to shock. Even his long suffering family struggled to put up with him. The intention was to highlight bigotry that was far more prevalent than it is now not give someone a platform on which to galvanise a very small section of society.

Anyone with half a brain is not everyone, we have already read a story about somebody congratulating the actor on taking the mickey out of non whites, his character often used the C word for Black people and I noticed that word became more in vogue than the N word for a time coinciding with his show, might have just been coincidence who knows.

[trampie09]

Indeed.

It wasn't as if he was a nice guy who happened to be racist, he was a shit to his family too... I don't understand anybody who claims that behavoiur, either to family or the racism was anywhere near close to ok or as presented as being so.

Thick people speak the same to wife, family, friends, teachers, police, judges, clergy etc etc, it's the more educated people have different vocabulary with different people.

[ccfc_is_my_life]

Thick people speak the same to wife, family, friends, teachers, police, judges, clergy etc etc, it's the more educated people have different vocabulary with different people.

I sense the point has flown over your head.

Alf Garnett was shown to be shitty human being, little to no redeeming virtues. He was nowhere close to being a sympathetic character, he was there to be shown as a vile misogynistic racist... anybody championing his racism no doubt already shares those characteristics.

[jon1959]

I sense the point has flown over your head.

Alf Garnett was shown to be shitty human being, little to no redeeming virtues. He was nowhere close to being a sympathetic character, he was there to be shown as a vile misogynistic racist... anybody championing his racism no doubt already shares those characteristics.

Context isn't everything, but it is important.

When Till Death Do Us Part was on TV originally it was surrounded by casual racist depictions and normalised bigotry passing as humour. Bernard Manning was on prime time, the Black And White Minstrels had a mid evening slot, a lot of TV drama had black and asian characters as caricatures (often criminal or defined by curry), and Enoch Powell (and sadly, the London dockers) has just done their bit for race relations. Alf Garnett in that context was cutting edge anti-racist satire. He even did a very good job of making a hero out of the 'Scouse git'.

[life on mars]

Great news Cleese hit the nail on the head with his comments .

[life on mars]

Context isn't everything, but it is important.

When Till Death Do Us Part was on TV originally it was surrounded by casual racist depictions and normalised bigotry passing as humour. Bernard Manning was on prime time, the Black And White Minstrels had a mid evening slot, a lot of TV drama had black and asian characters as caricatures (often criminal or defined by curry), and Enoch Powell (and sadly, the London dockers) has just done their bit for race relations. Alf Garnett in that context was cutting edge anti-racist satire. He even did a very good job of making a hero out of the 'Scouse git'.

Yep , certainty shows how far we have moved as a people in the UK in all manner of life including racism, LGBTQ, environment, health.

Proudly British

[cyril evans awaydays]

Yep , certainty shows how far we have moved as a people in the UK in all manner of life including racism, LGBTQ, environment, health.

Proudly British

For a few minutes there I had you mixed up with the guy who said Naturally born UK citizens are in a minority in some UK cities, who will never buy another Chinese takeaway because of what they did on Covid-19 and the reason why had not seen the levels of infection and Covid-19 deaths compared with Italy and Spain was because of our genes and DNA.

You might want to check whether your account has been hacked. Possibly just now!

[life on mars]

I personally wasn't offended by Garnett and thought the show was well written and I felt guilty about laughing at it and enjoying it but I have to say I used to cringe at the things he used to say which must have been very offensive to a lot of people.

Spot on , felt and did the same, thankfully we have moved on .

[splott parker]

The whole point of Johnny Speight’s writing was to depict Alf as a prick that nobody who want to be like.

[trampie09]

I sense the point has flown over your head.

Alf Garnett was shown to be shitty human being, little to no redeeming virtues. He was nowhere close to being a sympathetic character, he was there to be shown as a vile misogynistic racist... anybody championing his racism no doubt already shares those characteristics.

I think my point has flown over your head, thick people or young impressionable teenagers might be influenced by his character, I have read about the actor being in character in the theater saying something racist and getting a clap or cheer from the odd person in the audience and the actor feeling awkward about it.

[ccfc_is_my_life]

I think my point has flown over your head, thick people or young impressionable teenagers might be influenced by his character, I have read about the actor being in character in the theater saying something racist and getting a clap or cheer from the odd person in the audience and the actor feeling awkward about it.

I get your point now, I can see how it would form your racism to the English...